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TFB HM Loot tables


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Why not? You think the gear is great as is? And that's the way to go? GG

 

And who tha hack is saying that it is??? Nvm, ure just trolling, its late and you have nothing to do. /ignore

Edited by Kophar
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It varies between classes. I was farming EC HM gear, and still had to buy about 8 BH healer boots (as an arsenal merc) for the mods I needed because the campaign gear was so badly itemized.

 

For everyone except pretty succesful raid groups, you'd be in full 61 mod gear (barring weapons) quicker by sucking up BH commendations than by braving EC HM.

 

Many raid groups STILL havent cleared EC HM, yet pretty much all non-raiding players in the 5 man pugs are sporting full 61 mods. What does that tell you?

 

There are many well thought out things in this game. Gear progression and gear itemization are not among them, in my opinion.

 

Yeah, but the problem with saying you'd be 'in full 61 mod gear" quicker via BH comms is two fold

 

1) doesn't say what the mods are. For Agents, nearly every black hole piece has a patron armoring....which is much worse for every spec of each AC than a 58 skill armoring.

 

2) black hole comms are far more accessible via raiding HM EC than they are by going non-raid routes. 1 clear gave, I think, more than 7 days of GF HMFP grinding

 

So running HMEC is still far, far faster than trying to gear up without raiding it: not only because campaign has far less to "fix" than black hole (for both agents and inquisitors, it's a night and day difference), but because HMEC provides better access to black hole pieces than GF or the black hole weekly. With your example of boots, you were likely getting close to 1 set per HM EC clear. Let's be conservative and say it took 3 hours per run to clear it. Through group finder, that would take, at minimum, 10 days, and doesn't factor in that people buying black hole--and only black hole--need to buy far more pieces total.

 

The reason you see people who haven't cleared HMEC in full 61 gear, even optimized 61 gear, is because 61 gear has been out a long damned time. Personally, I have no issue with two routes to the same gear: one harder, but quicker, one easier, but taking several times the man-hour investment in grinding.

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Personally, I have no issue with two routes to the same gear: one harder, but quicker, one easier, but taking several times the man-hour investment in grinding.

 

The problem is that the 1 supposed to be faster is now 3 times slower (TFB HM) and 1 that was slower is now 10 times slower (haznat implants)

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The problem is that the 1 supposed to be faster is now 3 times slower (TFB HM) and 1 that was slower is now 10 times slower (haznat implants)

 

In complete agreement. Just bugs me when people respond to something like your thread by telling you you shouldn't care about loot, then cry foul when someone else is given the ability to get loot via (lengthy) alternate means.

 

Either loot's not important or multiple methods of getting it is some kind of travesty. A person can argue one or the other. Not both.

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2) black hole comms are far more accessible via raiding HM EC than they are by going non-raid routes. 1 clear gave, I think, more than 7 days of GF HMFP grinding

 

So people capable of clearing HM EC can gear up faster that way than by grinding BH comms. Well....yeah?

 

I am not talking about them, I am talking about the vast majority of players, who are NOT capable of clearing EC HM.

 

They would be absolutely correct in taking a long hard look at gear and saying: Why should I invest countless hours in rading and wiping, especially in a bad group that might never clear the place, when I can get pretty much the same gear relatively quickly by doing dailies?

 

Last tier, BH comms and BH gear was just too damn accessible to my mind, hence I don't mind this tier of gear being more restricted.

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So people capable of clearing HM EC can gear up faster that way than by grinding BH comms. Well....yeah?

 

I am not talking about them, I am talking about the vast majority of players, who are NOT capable of clearing EC HM.

 

They would be absolutely correct in taking a long hard look at gear and saying: Why should I invest countless hours in rading and wiping, especially in a bad group that might never clear the place, when I can get pretty much the same gear relatively quickly by doing dailies?

 

Last tier, BH comms and BH gear was just too damn accessible to my mind, hence I don't mind this tier of gear being more restricted.

 

Well BH and Hazmat having the same item rating than Campaign and Dread guard is just lame and it only adds up to my complain of the loot tables being completelly screwed up, loot tables or itemization, whatever you want to call it.

Put hazmat more restrictive but come on 10x times more the grinding and only 1 single drop of DG piece on 2nd and 3rd boss and only 1 single item piece of hazmant on 1st one is just... tbh im speechless with these changes and my guild as i allready warned is lacking motivation, 2 days in a row without having 8 peeps, hack even me am lacking motivation to log in to this game now, just for seeing the grinding pain it just transformed into.

Not to mention other annoying bugs, GTN search function still not working properlly, General chat is now instance restrictive (O.o), i wonder how guilds looking for players will cope now since we have NO guild recruitment tools, Kephess HM still have droids bugged, allmost 2 weeks have passed now since patch release and still no fixes in sights and what we hear from them is "Its a know bug, fixes are in order", honestly im loosing my patience on each patch that comes out screwing up something that did not even got touched in the patch.

Im loosing patience with them for not listening to their community properlly for example reguarding resolve bar changes in PvP, they did exactly the opposite of what we asked them too and quite frankly i just stopped PvPing in this game alltogether.

Im loosing my patience of getting bugs all over the board on each patch and taking 1-3 weeks to get them fixed.

Im sorelly disappointed on the grinding fest this game just turned to be on patch 1.4 with the new loot and commendation numbers.

Im tired of seeing the same lame itemization on items.

And im utterly bored of keep switching my toons in and out the entire day to keep making Crew skills each 30m-1hr since we dnt even have a queue system for crafting or some way of controling all of your chars in a crafting panel or something, so for now i just also stopped making crafting.

So pretty much im growing tired and im only logging for ops, well in the hope i have the numbers for ops that is and the only reason im still playing this game is because GW2 doesnt attract me and WoW, i played it for 7 years hardcore and im totally fed up with it not to mention that asiatic lore content is totally not for me nor is kung fu panda movies.

For 10 months i have been defending this game and BW, now... or they get their heads on the right path as they seemed to have done in 1.3 or when elder scrolls online, wildstar or WoD pops up im out of this boat.

Edited by Kophar
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I can't agree more. BW seems trying to loose people, it is difficult to find a design between too easy and frustrating. Before (BH/Campaign) it was too easy: you could take the mods from BH gear and put them on tionese gear and you had high-end stats and gear set bonus.

Now it is simply frustrating, doing some maths and considering the (rare) possibility that a 10 ppl guild can clear the content each run (every week because of the lockout) it would take 2 months and half just to gain 4 pieces of gear each one.... consider also that the pieces of gear give around 0.5% improvements over campaign and you can complete my reasoning.

 

looking it from a mercenary dps perspective it is something like: clear the operation 10 times (probably it will take 3-4 months because we are still at second boss) to gain 1% dps?!? It is simply frustrating.

I could do it for the appearence but, wait a minute, it is exactly the same as the blackhole/campaign i already have, only the color changes......................

It is better if i stop talking....

Edited by Savro
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Yeah.... Not really seeing the issue here..

My guild had #9 world 8m HM clear, and #2 US 8m HM clear, and the 2nd week it was out has it on farm. The "difficulty" of raids in this game is certainly not so hard as to be restricting players from doing the content.

 

Regarding the 1st boss loot table, I am more than fine with it dropping a piece of Hazmat; as lets be honest. The very very first day in there, we 2 shot it. There is 2, maybe 3 very easy mechanics; no positioning needed.. Its a very easy boss; as someone said earlier "You have to be this tall to enter".

The 2nd boss has more mechanics, and is slightly harder, but once again nothing special. The 3rd boss starts to ramp up the ante with some tough DPS checks, heal checks, team coordination, and quite a few mechanics that have to be done perfectly. Over all, this is the true "People are going to wipe here for weeks" boss.

The 4th boss is relatively simple as he doesnt have many mechanics, but he turns out to be a boss that needs to have perfect mechanics and teamwork. The 5th one is repetitive in a way, but once you can see that last phase; you realize that your healers and DPS really do need to pay attention and punch that things face in ASAP. It really is a rewarding operation in my opinion, and to me; there is no problem with the loot table. That second of suspense to see if you got pants or an offhand on Kephess, or chest or mainhand on Terror is something that in my opinion was a great decision.

 

/endrant.

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Yeah.... Not really seeing the issue here..

My guild had #9 world 8m HM clear, and #2 US 8m HM clear, and the 2nd week it was out has it on farm. The "difficulty" of raids in this game is certainly not so hard as to be restricting players from doing the content.

 

Regarding the 1st boss loot table, I am more than fine with it dropping a piece of Hazmat; as lets be honest. The very very first day in there, we 2 shot it. There is 2, maybe 3 very easy mechanics; no positioning needed.. Its a very easy boss; as someone said earlier "You have to be this tall to enter".

The 2nd boss has more mechanics, and is slightly harder, but once again nothing special. The 3rd boss starts to ramp up the ante with some tough DPS checks, heal checks, team coordination, and quite a few mechanics that have to be done perfectly. Over all, this is the true "People are going to wipe here for weeks" boss.

The 4th boss is relatively simple as he doesnt have many mechanics, but he turns out to be a boss that needs to have perfect mechanics and teamwork. The 5th one is repetitive in a way, but once you can see that last phase; you realize that your healers and DPS really do need to pay attention and punch that things face in ASAP. It really is a rewarding operation in my opinion, and to me; there is no problem with the loot table. That second of suspense to see if you got pants or an offhand on Kephess, or chest or mainhand on Terror is something that in my opinion was a great decision.

 

/endrant.

 

Your guild might do that and even more, again, EC HM is not even cleared for most of guilds and some not even started making EC HM, so i aint seeing really a point here from your side apart that there are guilds that clear stuff faster than others?

Yep u right there but that sill doesnt mean squat to what were talking about in here really, unless you just wanted to point out that ure the best, oops sry, 9th world best and US 2nd best, gz btw, sigh...

Edited by Kophar
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Going to level with you here, I've never seen gear as the real reward in endgame.

Gear allows people to do the tougher endgame content (although let's face it, prior to HM Terror we never really had an difficult content in this game) and thus is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

 

That's why I never complained about Nightmare EV/KP dropping Rakata, because for a long time there was no content after Nightmare EV/KP and thus no need for better gear.

 

For people who raid for a sense of Camaraderie and accomplishment, it's the challenge that gives you that warm feeling inside when you clear an Operation after hours of wipes. Gear's nice, but it's there to make it feasible to do new content, not the reward for doing new content.

 

Now, if you're so good that HM TFB bored you... then yes, that's a legitimate complaint.

I'm still only 2/5 HM and must have wiped a hour on HM Writhing Horror alone, so I'm liking the new stuff.

 

If the only objective is the challenge of progression and killing new bosses, without the need or the extra incentive of gearing up, then I will only do TFB once. When I kill the last boss I will not do it again because there is no need of gear. After finishing TFB once I will suspend my subscription until new content is available.

 

I realy don't think this is the purpose of Bioware when the do that lousy job on the loot tables.

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Whining about the loot not coming to you fast enough just proves that youre raiding for the wrong reasons. Wich means you stating youre hardcore is really wrong

 

I think the motivation for hardcore players to raid every night is both progression and gear.

If it was not so they would stop raiding after the first successfull complete run.

They keep raiding to have at all times the best in slot gear. Even loving the game, there is no one that doesn't at one moment get bored of doing the same things night after night for 5 months, even more if the gain is so low. I saw that happening on WOW.

According to some calculation I saw, the dps gain on a mercenary with full Dread Guard gear when compared with full Campaign was around 2%. What kind of incentive is that to continue playing?

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And yet, thats the point. TFB HM, is not designed for players who can't clear EC HM. It was stated that it would be more difficult than EC HM by the devs many months ago. [Awesome raid btw BW, I love all of the fights!]

If a player is casual, or is not in a progression raiding guild, then chances are they will do TFB SM, and maybe the first two bosses of TFB HM. The farther in you get, its intended that it has more incentive (Starts dropping variable pieces of desirable gear + hazmat). That is how it is supposed to be working, and to me makes perfect sense. If you really have no "motivation" to clear the 1st boss anymore, then you need to start seeing the value in clearing for fun, and gearing as well.

 

As for "EC HM dropped two pieces of campaign per boss"!...

First boss and second boss had near useless belt & bracers. The only reason that it dropped more pieces was because there were less bosses in the tier (Counting Nightmare Pilgrim, 5 bosses). In this tier, with Nightmare EC, and TFB HM, there will 9 bosses, 8 of which drop Dread Guard. I really see no issue with that, as its much more content, time spent gearing etc. As well as that, EC HM was much too easy to gear toons in, as a result I now have 3 50's of various roles that not only have full augmented and optimized Campaign, they each have an offspec that is optimized campaign. With how gear is setup in TFB/NiM EC; that will be much much harder to obtain. Likely, by the time new content is released, my marauder will just be getting to full BiS. In my book, that is a much better alternative to "Hey, lets all have full BiS in a few weeks from BH/Campaign!". It really did bring back an incentive to doing the content longer, and I see no reason why you would be upset over the first boss dropping Hazmat, considering its totally puggable sans bad groups.

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It's a slower grind but only half the set, so it should be I guess.

 

And they seem to be slowing it down in general to give a sense on longetivity. People don't always know what they want. They did complain that gearing was too quick in previous ops and now its been changes. And theres a great chance that it won't be changed based on the couple of complaints in this thread.

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It's a slower grind but only half the set, so it should be I guess.

 

And they seem to be slowing it down in general to give a sense on longetivity. People don't always know what they want. They did complain that gearing was too quick in previous ops and now its been changes. And theres a great chance that it won't be changed based on the couple of complaints in this thread.

 

A sense of longetivity doesnt mean trippling the Op gear grind and ten times more the "daily" farm for hazmats implants.

I allready stated before that i wouldnt mind them for example dropping the 3 loot items on EC drop number to only 2 pieces per boss on TFB, i do understand that and im totally up for it but putting it as it is, its just non-sense.

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And yet, thats the point. TFB HM, is not designed for players who can't clear EC HM. It was stated that it would be more difficult than EC HM by the devs many months ago. [Awesome raid btw BW, I love all of the fights!]

If a player is casual, or is not in a progression raiding guild, then chances are they will do TFB SM, and maybe the first two bosses of TFB HM. The farther in you get, its intended that it has more incentive (Starts dropping variable pieces of desirable gear + hazmat). That is how it is supposed to be working, and to me makes perfect sense. If you really have no "motivation" to clear the 1st boss anymore, then you need to start seeing the value in clearing for fun, and gearing as well.

 

1 - Allready said before that i wasnt complaining bout ops design or how hard/easy they were. I love the new tactical design for TFB. That is totally out of the discussion here.

2 - If i wanted to clear stuff only for "fun" i wouldnt be playing an MMORPG. Fun for most of the gamers in MMORPG passes through upgrading your gear while waisting a effort/time on it. Atm the balance between upgrading gear vs effort/time is just beyond charts and that is no fun at all.

 

As for "EC HM dropped two pieces of campaign per boss"!...

First boss and second boss had near useless belt & bracers. The only reason that it dropped more pieces was because there were less bosses in the tier (Counting Nightmare Pilgrim, 5 bosses). In this tier, with Nightmare EC, and TFB HM, there will 9 bosses, 8 of which drop Dread Guard. I really see no issue with that, as its much more content, time spent gearing etc. As well as that, EC HM was much too easy to gear toons in, as a result I now have 3 50's of various roles that not only have full augmented and optimized Campaign, they each have an offspec that is optimized campaign. With how gear is setup in TFB/NiM EC; that will be much much harder to obtain. Likely, by the time new content is released, my marauder will just be getting to full BiS. In my book, that is a much better alternative to "Hey, lets all have full BiS in a few weeks from BH/Campaign!". It really did bring back an incentive to doing the content longer, and I see no reason why you would be upset over the first boss dropping Hazmat, considering its totally puggable sans bad groups.

 

1 - Again, loot itemization was also not a part of this thread, we all agree that is awfully made but it isnt what were talking about in here.

2 - The solution of resending guilds to an old content to farm it again after we allready spent 2-3 months or even more farming it just to complement loot numbers on current content, is just lame. That isnt a solution at all and it doesnt make sense.

3 - TFB HM being totally puggable made me laugh, eheh!! You guys think just because your guild is good enough to clear the entire TFB HM content, than everyone must do it.

Get real m8, EC HM isnt yet accessible for pugs and TFB HM is even less. Hack, even LI HM isnt made for pugs yet.

Just because you guys are among the best in the world, it doesnt mean that every guild is like that.

In fact top world guilds are only 1-5% of the total numbers of guilds that can clear content that easy in every MMO.

Stop giving your top world guilds as an example. We arent measuring sizes here man, were talking about the fairness on loot numbers as a hole to the entire community and im pretty sure that hardcore numbers are by vast the smaller minority here, so look to the picture in its real size, not just your corner.

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