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TFB HM Loot tables


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In the end, yes, 1 item drop per boss of token loot is dumb, but only because it's not BiS. If we could do what I think WoW does with "reforging" to get the exact stats we want on a mod then I'd be perfectly happy with it. But knowing that it's better for me to win a belt for someone to RE it in hopes of getting the 1 +Power/Str Mod Lvl 63 instead of farming 10 belts for BiS... well, that's just stupid itemization and loot distribution.

 

Yep and thats what were talking bout.

Reguarding EC NM what i was saying was that its just dumb to force players to go to a content that they have been farming over and over for over 2-3 months to complement new content, that is just terrible, terrible loot table design and its getting worse and worse, sigh...

Edited by Kophar
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First post or 101st post, you're way overdramatic about how the loot is. Acting like the world's ending because you only got one drop is going to get you replys like these. I lost count of how many exclamation points !!!!!! you used in your post. Does the loot distribution in this game suck? Yes, but !!!!!! isn't going to make it better.

 

O.o, ... what???... sigh /ignored

Edited by Kophar
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It only took 8-12 HM EC runs to have BiS (you needed the Black Hole Armouring off Kephess to be viable for you class) and only because of Bracers/Belts. If you ignored those it only took 8 runs to get BiS.

 

They're doubling that for HM TfB so it will take 16-24 (2-5 months). Hopefully they'll release Nightmare EC around mid-December (SWTOR Anniversary, Dec 20?). So given the decrease in gear I suspect Nightmare TfB won't be out until February or March:(

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They're doubling that for HM TfB so it will take 16-24 (2-5 months). Hopefully they'll release Nightmare EC around mid-December (SWTOR Anniversary, Dec 20?). So given the decrease in gear I suspect Nightmare TfB won't be out until February or March:(

i dont expect TFB NiM anytime in the near future.

 

IF they have not cleared EC HM, they should NOT be doing TFB HM.

 

iF they're not doing TFB HM, and later on EC Nightmare, then they should NOT be receiving dread guard gear.

 

Now, you mention incentives.

 

BW has already stated that EC nightmare will complement TFB HM in terms of gearing (rank 63). Translation: they will drop the same loot rank.

 

IF they give a full dread guard set in TFB HM, what is the incentive for doing EC Nightmare?

Well said, the only thing i have against the first boss is him, dropping only 1 piece of the worst garbage i ever seen.

http://db.darthhater.com/items/45995/hazmat_foestoppers_mk_2_vest/

Like this for example, worth a RE thats it.

Edited by ElitehunterDS
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It only took 8-12 HM EC runs to have BiS (you needed the Black Hole Armouring off Kephess to be viable for you class) and only because of Bracers/Belts. If you ignored those it only took 8 runs to get BiS.

 

They're doubling that for HM TfB so it will take 16-24 (2-5 months). Hopefully they'll release Nightmare EC around mid-December (SWTOR Anniversary, Dec 20?). So given the decrease in gear I suspect Nightmare TfB won't be out until February or March:(

 

Actually its 3 times more gear grind in TFB HM since EC HM drops 3 pieces of equipment. 2 Campaign set and 1 BH piece. In TFB 1st boss for example it only drops 1 single piece of Hazmat gear this is the reason im complaining here, nothing else.

I dnt know if the remaining bosses drop 2 pieces of gear or not since we havent yet killed 2nd boss but just for the looks of the drops on the 1st one, its just rubbish.

And again, NM's arent for every guild and they shouldnt be, so this isnt a solution to the lack of drops on TFB HM.

Again, pls BW fix this.

Edited by Kophar
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I'd be fine with the one-item-per-boss system if what was dropping was actually well itemised, legitimate individual upgrades compared to black hole/campaign level gear.

 

Problem is, they're not, and depending on your class the extent to which they've botched your items can be pretty dramatic. I've only a vague idea how it is for most other classes, but requiring me to collect two-three entire sets worth of items just to correct the horrendously poor itemisation on the commando Dread Guard gear, whilst dropping one token/other item at a time? Screw. That.

Edited by Bleeters
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I'd be fine with the one-item-per-boss system if what was dropping was actually well itemised, legitimate individual upgrades compared to black hole/campaign level gear.

 

Problem is, they're not, and depending on your class the extent to which they've botched your items can be pretty dramatic. I've only a vague idea how it is for most other classes, but requiring me to collect two-three entire sets worth of items just to correct the horrendously poor itemisation on the commando Dread Guard gear, whilst dropping one token/other item at a time? Screw. That.

 

Stil, even fixing the itemization, only 1 single drop is extremely low, i can live with 2, 1 DG set item and 1 Hazmat drop but only 1, no way.

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So you are saying that your highly motivated and well-run raid group will loose motivation and stop raiding because they are getting 1 drop per boss and not two?

 

Either there is more to it, or you're blowing this out of proportion to lend support to your wish for more loot per boss.

 

Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to that opinion. I just don't buy that a proper raid group walks away and refuses to do TFB because of the number of drops.

 

You still get the "special snowflake" effect. You still get gear, and at the same rate as everyone else.

 

A statement like "I think the bosses in TFB should drop more gear " can be taken seriously, and people can argue for and against.

 

A statement like "Noone will want to raid TFB because the bosses only drop 1 piece of gear" is hyperbole.

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Well, it's certainly diminshed my enthusiasm for doing it on any longer-term basis, simply because I can't really be bothered spending the next half dozen months grinding just to make the next tier of equipment an actual upgrade to what I already have.

 

'Course, that's more of a problem with the items than how many drop, and it won't keep me from doing it at all.

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My choice at the moment in guild is to either only take the best players to EC/TFB HM and thus alienate my other raiders or take less well played raiders and accept the fact that we're gonna wipe all night and waste everybodies time. I'm in a lose/lose position at the moment because there doesn't exist a raid in which to train well-geared-but-under-experieced raiders.

 

Many guilds have this issue, and my suggestions to you is let your player decide not you.. If you are a guild leader shame on you and your officers for not being willing to wipe and know that you are in fact training lower skilled players for harder content. If a member decides at this point that raiding isn't for them then you just trimmed some fat from the guild. People are rather intriguing when you challenge them some step up and those are the guys you want at your side during HM Kephess and HM TFB.

 

Personally EC HM isn't that hard, it does have gear checks and if your raiders are in stock Rakata or Campaign they aren't doing their homework and are leaving heals, dps, and survivability on the table for the bosses of wipe you on.

 

My guild, I am the GM, has three teams and we are pushing our second and third teams into EC HM now.. First team still hasn't downed Kephess. I can promise its not a DPS issue but communication and coordination. We downed Writhing Horror in TFB story mode on our second time in there, and but can't get Kephess. Who knew?

 

I personally love the challenge and the gear is not my motivation, and it's the icing or present for a job well done.

 

Recruit new members get involved in your community and you'll find success!

 

Good luck

Edited by Crionos
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Actually its 3 times more gear grind in TFB HM since EC HM drops 3 pieces of equipment. 2 Campaign set and 1 BH piece. In TFB 1st boss for example it only drops 1 single piece of Hazmat gear this is the reason im complaining here, nothing else.

I dnt know if the remaining bosses drop 2 pieces of gear or not since we havent yet killed 2nd boss but just for the looks of the drops on the 1st one, its just rubbish.

And again, NM's arent for every guild and they shouldnt be, so this isnt a solution to the lack of drops on TFB HM.

Again, pls BW fix this.

 

Since you have yet to kill the 2nd boss I don't see your point that the loot should be better, the 1st boss is the easiest of all the boss encounters, I still believe in risk vs reward and the 1st boss as you know since you killed it is really not that difficult.

Boss fight #2 and the rest are hard and the reward should reflect that over a boss that is really there for nothing more than flavor....

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So you are saying that your highly motivated and well-run raid group will loose motivation and stop raiding because they are getting 1 drop per boss and not two?

 

Either there is more to it, or you're blowing this out of proportion to lend support to your wish for more loot per boss.

 

Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to that opinion. I just don't buy that a proper raid group walks away and refuses to do TFB because of the number of drops.

 

You still get the "special snowflake" effect. You still get gear, and at the same rate as everyone else.

 

A statement like "I think the bosses in TFB should drop more gear " can be taken seriously, and people can argue for and against.

 

A statement like "Noone will want to raid TFB because the bosses only drop 1 piece of gear" is hyperbole.

 

I said it might happen yes, we defenetly lost motivation for it, that doesnt mean that we are stopping to farm it.

Players make ops to be properlly rewarded with gear both in quality and numbers and also to see the end content ofc but the main reason will allways to get better gear, any other reason and you are kidding yourself.

What you are saying is that you have no problem whatsoever to be farming 5-6 months TFB in order to grab your gear to every player in your operation team, thats just sick if you ask me.

The grinding part of this game was good as it was, now they just trippled that amount. Just take a look as well for the cost of hazmat implants that just passed from 30ish to 350, i mean come on, am i the only one here seeing that there is a problem with this pattern?

The loot table rewarding system in this game is all screwed up from the very beginning. It started with ev/kp giving the same loot on NM's than in HM, than they fixed that and actually they made the loot rewarding system pretty darn balanced in EC HM and now this?!

Awarding 1 single piece of loot to an 8 man grp its just bad design and the only reason theyre doing this is because they want to stretch the rope on the release of new ops content and you guys are buying this?!

Edited by Kophar
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What you are saying is that you have no problem whatsoever to be farming 5-6 months TFB in order to grab your gear to every player in your operation team, thats just sick if you ask me.

 

Right, I have no problem with that. Firstly my goal is to clear TFB HM while having fun, not ensure that every single raid member has every possible gear piece.

 

Secondly I assume that other ways to gear up might present themselves (NiM modes), and even if they don't, I am fine with that too.

 

Last tier of gear you could farm dailies for BH gear. Shift the BH mods into Rakata gear from faceroll content, and in a short time have gear that was BETTER than Campaign gear, if you knew how to mod. The rational way to gear up was to farm BH commendations in dailies, not do PvE.

 

THAT was sick, in my opinion.

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Right, I have no problem with that. Firstly my goal is to clear TFB HM while having fun, not ensure that every single raid member has every possible gear piece.

 

Secondly I assume that other ways to gear up might present themselves (NiM modes), and even if they don't, I am fine with that too.

 

Last tier of gear you could farm dailies for BH gear. Shift the BH mods into Rakata gear from faceroll content, and in a short time have gear that was BETTER than Campaign gear, if you knew how to mod. The rational way to gear up was to farm BH commendations in dailies, not do PvE.

 

THAT was sick, in my opinion.

 

Well i agree with you that the main reason to clear something is a reward on itself, thats obvious but i stand my ground on the part that the gear loot tables should be consistent in properlly rewarding players inside ops and giving 1 loot drop to an 8 man grp surelly isnt properlly rewarding players.

 

On your 2nd remark i would have to say that putting DG set drops on future EC NM is trully lame on their part, since theyre forcing us to go back to farm on the same old content again for another 2-3 months.

 

On your last observation, i agree with you and that is also a part of the problem that im pointing to you guys, wich is that the entire loot table and loot alike are screwed up from the very beginning of this game and the problem here is that they arent fixing anything, theyre just giving us even more problems and their solution right now it seems, passes through tripling the time for farming gear just for the sake of extending for as long as possible current content.

Edited by Kophar
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Whining about the loot not coming to you fast enough just proves that youre raiding for the wrong reasons. Wich means you stating youre hardcore is really wrong

 

People like this guy are always the first in line to complain when, for instance, a heroic mission provides 5 (or whatever pittance it is, haven't done the black hole weekly since June) black hole comms per week.

 

"Lol, u dun raid for loot"

 

+

 

"Waaah! dey didun raid for loot"

 

 

Anyways, as has been reiterated by others, the reduction in loot combined with the far worse optimization in DG gear + the relative scarcity of valuable parts to DG gear is toxic soup and makes no sense.

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Right, I have no problem with that. Firstly my goal is to clear TFB HM while having fun, not ensure that every single raid member has every possible gear piece.

 

Secondly I assume that other ways to gear up might present themselves (NiM modes), and even if they don't, I am fine with that too.

 

Last tier of gear you could farm dailies for BH gear. Shift the BH mods into Rakata gear from faceroll content, and in a short time have gear that was BETTER than Campaign gear, if you knew how to mod. The rational way to gear up was to farm BH commendations in dailies, not do PvE.

 

THAT was sick, in my opinion.

 

Problem with this is the statement "in a short time." Don't know if you looked at the itemization in black hole, but it was as bad as DG or worse (which, since it was supplemental, was totally fine). There was usually one to two pieces for the base class that had unlettered mods (and they may have had unusable enhancements...high accuracy pieces for op healers or something of the sort). Without being able to clear EC, you'd be, at most, buying something like one glove per week for about 8 weeks just to get the mods you need and one armoring. You'd then have to farm one piece of each slot gear for the armoring. Then farm a couple pieces for the enhancements you didn't get, which, in some cases, aren't even available in gear for your AC (when I respecced my sorc to lightning, I needed another quick savant enhancement...and had to buy a bounty hunter piece to get it).

 

Basically, if anyone did this without clearing EC, it would have taken them 4 months or more, assuming they don't have several alts farming gf dailies to gear up one main. That's twice as long and many many many more man-hours spent gearing than it would have taken to just clear HM EC 8 times and fix your optimization from the comms that drop in the op (apart from a rare earpiece drop that I've still never seen, think I was best in slot after clear #5, though I did RE and craft a few enhancement schems and a mod, and kill NMP 3 timess).

 

So, yeah, they're geared the same, but at the cost of time spent gearing, which is, imo, fine.

 

But really, when someone goes out of their way to say that gear isn't a reason to raid, they can't turn around and complain that it's "sick" that someone can gear through a lengthy, non-raiding process, can they?

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Last tier of gear you could farm dailies for BH gear. Shift the BH mods into Rakata gear from faceroll content, and in a short time have gear that was BETTER than Campaign gear, if you knew how to mod. The rational way to gear up was to farm BH commendations in dailies, not do PvE.

 

THAT was sick, in my opinion.

 

Agreed.

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Exactly

 

 

 

Check forums every single day and i never saw a zerg of posts complaining bout this. Saw QQers and Trolls whinning for everything really but zerg of posts reguarding too much loot? Nope

 

 

 

 

M8y u missed my point entirelly, i dnt mind farming the same content for 6 months if theres still players to equip themselves but we want to do that cause we want to, not because we need to, since the gaming company just thought to themselves "Hey lets take out loot drops from the tables and increase the life of this operation". This isnt how loot designs should be made man and this will cause peeps to get bored to go inside that op since only 1/8th of the op will be rewarded to actually kill a boss. EC NM introducing Dread guard gear is more of the same crappy loot tables theory but i can live with that. The problem here is putting peeps out of motivation to go in there due to the extreme low number on loot drops.

 

 

 

Again youre not thinking for a minute here and youre just raging around. Put it on the same plate the 1st boss on EC HM and the 1st Boss on TFB HM. Now, EC HM 1st boss drops 2 pieces of campaign and 1 BH while 1st boss in TFB HM drops only 1 piece of hazmat and not even Dread guard. The same 8 guys in EC will take in 8 weeks to have 2 pieces of campaign gear and a third BH while in TFB HM ull have after the same 8 weeks 1 piece of Hazmat?!

Seriously youre not seeing a bad pattern??? Its a difference 3 to 1? And you dnt see a problem here??Seriously.

I could even live with only 2 drops for example, 1 DG and 1 Hazmat but only 1 and not even DG???

 

 

 

 

You must be confusing me with the zillion trolls that are/were around in these forums. Go and look my posting history, if theres a common pattern in my speech between all of the +40-50 posts/replys ive made so far, was to defend SWTOR and its potential.

This is my 1st post making a critic on this game, they touched on something they dnt needed to touch. The loot quantity was balanced. The loot tier drops were crap but we can perfectly live with that.

Those that whine cause they geared up fast are/were just trolling.

And i would appreciate it m8y if you would take the sarcasm out of your replys, i believe you dnt have the need for it. You arent replying to a hater here man, chill.

 

First off, you obviously don't read forums that much. There was a thread not too long after 1.3 where people said "WOW FULL BH GEAR JUST AS GOOD AS CAMPAIGN GEAR WITHOUT STEPPING INTO HM EC DA*** BIOWARE?!" (cause of augments and easy BH comms). Second off, gee maybe Bioware wants you not to blow through this content like you did the other patches. So they can get you off their asses for a few months until 1.5. So ya stop ************. If you're guild is hardcore, then maybe you all should be thrilled about DOWING THE FIRST BOSS AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT LOOT!

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First off, you obviously don't read forums that much. There was a thread not too long after 1.3 where people said "WOW FULL BH GEAR JUST AS GOOD AS CAMPAIGN GEAR WITHOUT STEPPING INTO HM EC DA*** BIOWARE?!" (cause of augments and easy BH comms).

 

Actually i come to forums every single day and i aint talking talking or arguing with the BH comms being equal to campaign gear, yes that is an issue but my post wasnt about that at all, l2read.

 

 

Second off, gee maybe Bioware wants you not to blow through this content like you did the other patches. So they can get you off their asses for a few months until 1.5. So ya stop ************. If you're guild is hardcore, then maybe you all should be thrilled about DOWING THE FIRST BOSS AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT LOOT!

 

You will see how well you will cope with that when ull be farming TFB HM for over 5-6 months without a new op popping up or better yet if they do realease a new op will be still be stuck on old content cause plain and simple you couldnt equip your guild faster than that cause the loot numbers dnt allow for a faster gearing up. We will see about how the supposed "hardcore players have no interest in loot" will still be moralized to keep farming every single day the same content.

I was glad with the progression on EC HM and i was glad with the loot numbers but after 1-2 months later we still need campaign drops from there and what im seeing now is that instead of 2-3 months farming an op i will be stucked to farm TFB HM for 5-6 months and you say that is a good thing? Right...

Look i aint saying for them to throw me 4 pieces of gear man, im saying that only 1 loot drop isnt clearly enough and you agreeing that it is just shocks me to the bone, killing a boss is a REWARD BY ITSELF BUT IT ISNT EVERYTHING!!

Edited by Kophar
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People like this guy are always the first in line to complain when, for instance, a heroic mission provides 5 (or whatever pittance it is, haven't done the black hole weekly since June) black hole comms per week.

 

"Lol, u dun raid for loot"

 

+

 

"Waaah! dey didun raid for loot"

 

 

Anyways, as has been reiterated by others, the reduction in loot combined with the far worse optimization in DG gear + the relative scarcity of valuable parts to DG gear is toxic soup and makes no sense.

 

Amen brother

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Problem with this is the statement "in a short time." Don't know if you looked at the itemization in black hole, but it was as bad as DG or worse (which, since it was supplemental, was totally fine). There was usually one to two pieces for the base class that had unlettered mods (and they may have had unusable enhancements...high accuracy pieces for op healers or something of the sort). Without being able to clear EC, you'd be, at most, buying something like one glove per week for about 8 weeks just to get the mods you need and one armoring.

 

It varies between classes. I was farming EC HM gear, and still had to buy about 8 BH healer boots (as an arsenal merc) for the mods I needed because the campaign gear was so badly itemized.

 

For everyone except pretty succesful raid groups, you'd be in full 61 mod gear (barring weapons) quicker by sucking up BH commendations than by braving EC HM.

 

Many raid groups STILL havent cleared EC HM, yet pretty much all non-raiding players in the 5 man pugs are sporting full 61 mods. What does that tell you?

 

There are many well thought out things in this game. Gear progression and gear itemization are not among them, in my opinion.

Edited by Grobluk
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It varies between classes. I was farming EC HM gear, and still had to buy about 8 BH healer boots (as an arsenal merc) for the mods I needed because the campaign gear was so badly itemized.

 

For everyone except pretty succesful raid groups, you'd be in full 61 mod gear (barring weapons) quicker by sucking up BH commendations than by braving EC HM.

 

Many raid groups STILL havent cleared EC HM, yet pretty much all non-raiding players in the 5 man pugs are sporting full 61 mods. What does that tell you?

 

There are many well thought out things in this game. Gear progression and gear itemization are not among them, in my opinion.

 

Aye, totally agree with ya.

I know that every MMO have a grinding feature and i support them ofc but with this new approach to end content gear, this game has just turned itself to be the most grindable game i saw till date for the end gear.

Edited by Kophar
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