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Nerfed Assassin Force Speed -60% dmg absorb utility


Darittha

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What is this insanity about removing and nerfing Phasing Phantasm utility? Currently both dps and tank specced Assassins can have 60% damage reduction for 2 or 2,5 seconds(duration of Force Speed) which is the only thing u Devs actually did right in terms of balancing with the other tank classes - as the Jugg has Enraged Defense for instant selfhealing, same thing with Powertechs and their Kolto Overload and yet you want to take damage reduction from this ability and give sin TANKS force regeneration? TANKS and FORCE REGENERATION? That gives us nothing. Even with 2,5sec long force speed we get max 25 more force points but we are TANKS. What are we suppose to do with it? Its completely useless to tanks.

 

Assassin damage specs get the ability *only* nerfed with some damage reduction - that would be perfect for tank.

I struggle to understand your logic here - you take damage absorb away from tanks and give them force regen - which would be perfect for dps specced sins but they dont get it no -> for them the ability gives 25% dmg reduction - which would be perfect for oh idk a TANK?

 

Original working for all specs: https://imgur.com/a/dTY2JDs

 

Nerfed version: https://imgur.com/a/u8V6p8l

Edited by Darittha
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What is this insanity about removing and nerfing Phasing Phantasm utility? Currently both dps and tank specced Assassins can have 60% damage reduction for 2 or 2,5 seconds(duration of Force Speed) which is the only thing u Devs actually did right in terms of balancing with the other tank classes - as the Jugg has Enraged Defense for instant selfhealing, same thing with Powertechs and their Kolto Overload and yet you want to take damage reduction from this ability and give sin TANKS force regeneration? TANKS and FORCE REGENERATION? That gives us nothing. even with 2,5sec long force speed we at max get 25 more force points but we are TANKS. What are we suppose to do with it? Tts completely useless to tanks.

 

Assassin damage specs get the ability *only* nerfed with some damage reduction - that would be perfect for oh idk perhaps A TANK ??!!

I struggle to understand your logic here - you take damage absorb away from tanks and give them force regen - which would be perfect for dps specced sins but they dont get it no -> for them the ability gives 25% dmg reduction - which would be perfect for oh idk a TANK?

 

Original working for all specs: https://imgur.com/a/dTY2JDs

 

Nerfed version: https://imgur.com/a/u8V6p8l

 

Nerf had to happen, there is no doubt about it. 15 sec CD 60% DR is just godly in PVE (does not do much in PVP though). It should really be the other way around though. Give DPS force regen, and tanks the 25% DR.

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Nerf had to happen, there is no doubt about it. 15 sec CD 60% DR is just godly in PVE (does not do much in PVP though). It should really be the other way around though. Give DPS force regen, and tanks the 25% DR.

More force regen would be extremely pointless for Deception. Hatred might have some use for it, though...

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Was this in the last version of PTS?

 

I really didn't have any trouble with the Eternal Championship on my Assassin tank in only 273 gear. Nor did I have trouble tanking in Vet Mode Hammer Station (not that its terribly challenging) or MM Hammer. And since the rounds don't have a ton of adds, the Tome of Wrath tactical doesn't have a ton of utility in that activity. So, if this nerf was on the last version of PTS then I didn't see much of an impact on my survivability.

 

If this is from dwarven folk, then I guess I'll have to see.

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I switched to Guardian Tank right after discovering this nerf. Not because I felt sins to be bad now, but because I played Sin/Shadow for years now, since they were so much more powerful than the other tank-classes. It'll be interesting to first progress through the gear grinding with a guardian now.

 

In general, I'd now like to have phase walk back for sins. I always found that removing it from sins and shadows was a mistake. Force speed was just broken, but phase walk was a nice mobility skill.

 

#bringbackphasewalkforsins

 

And, on another note, rewrite phasing phantasm, so that we get our big, healing increasing phase walk back please! Let force speed be a mobility skill only. No need to attach force regen or damage reduction to it.

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The fact that OP is comparing Force Speed absorb to ED and, oh god, Kolto Overload, shows how clueless they are in what tanks need and what they don't. And how tanking and mitigation works in general.

 

Sin might not be the main tank for every single operation anymore (unfair, I know, those PTs and juggs really don't deserve to tank anything :D ) but simply because of Force Shroud it will always stay relevant for many fights.

 

Force Speed absorb should have been nerfed long, long ago...

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5.0 ->or whenever sins got Phasing Phantasm on force speed only made sin tanks more viable. Ive played sin tank long before that and honestly out of all tanks i still think Jugg is prob most versatile as they have Enraged Defense selfheal giving them basically 2 lives ->2,5 lives if you count in Endure Pain ability, they also have25% dmg absorb on Saber Ward(i think its called) and they have proper standalone reflect ability that actually reflects damage(sin reflect ability is tied to Deflection ability and does not absorb the damage - so you reflect some damage but still get hurt). Also Jugg tanks have good dps when compared to sin.

 

Sin tanks in comparison to Jugg are just more built like a damage sponge - we can reset agro via Force Cloak(stealth pop), have miniscule heal(15% every 2mins) and we can resist force+tech attacks for few secs every 1min with Force Shroud. And Deflection(sin counterpart of Saber Ward) while increasing defense by 50% is completely missing 25% absorb that Jugg has on damage that does come through.

 

Given the near complete lack of selfheal on the Sin side, mitigation of high spiked damage through 60% damage absorb during force speed is now essential imo as sin remains bit of a damage sponge with seriously low dmg output even when compared to other tank classes.

Edited by Darittha
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Even with the fs nerf, sin tanks are still the best tank. That shows how much op was the sin tanks.

 

I don't think that's true. They aren't completly useless, but Force Speed was by far the biggest thing for sin tanks. In fights where you can use Force Shroud for (relevant) boss attacks, I think they will be still pretty good, but in a lot of other fights, the other tanks might be better now.

 

While I think tanks are now more or less balanced. I really don't like this change. I stated in another post, that I liked the idea of a very short defensive with short cooldown. This way you can actually do something during the fight to avoid damage and don't have to rely on luck (or defensives with very long cooldown). The very short duration also makes it somewhat challenging and you have to think about when exactly to use it.

 

In my opinion they should revert that change (force regen, really?), maybe reduce the %, and most importantly give something similar to the other tanks. This skill made tanking so much more fun, everyone should have it.

 

also:

#bringbackphasewalkforsins :D

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Also about the nerfed ability - for tanks it would grant enhanced force recharge - but even with maximum of 2,5secs of Force Speed this nerfed utility would only provide maximum of 25 extra force points -> that equals to a one single use of Shock ability and thats it. This makes me thing that they *tested* sin tank on a dummy - where you dont get attacked so you run out of force real fast - unlike the real combat where ive not had problems running out of force like at all.
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In my opinion they should revert that change (force regen, really?), maybe reduce the %, and most importantly give something similar to the other tanks. This skill made tanking so much more fun, everyone should have it.

 

I think they should keep the utility as it is with 60% dmg absorb for the Force Speed duration, but give the same - or similar to other tanks(maybe weaker version for selfhealing near unkillable class like jugg with 2 lives)

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Again, can anyone confirm this was actually on the last version of PTS? Practically speaking I didn't even notice the nerf, if it was, and you'd think this would be a change the Devs would want to test in the phase dedicated to Balance testing.
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Without entering the debate of this particular Nerf, as i have never tanked with a Sin, I still do wonder.....

Why they decided to change this and not other things?

For the most part all 6.0 was built on the (i think wrong) premise that everything was perfect prior to this and after removing current set bonus they will only build on top: new abilities, talticals and new set bonus.

 

If they wanted to make changes I think there were other things. For example, since we are in the line of tanks, why not actually change Traslocate? Each spec has 4 Active abilities that defines them on a large portion. PT Tanks get only 3 and a Toy. They even added a tactical to make it something close to being "useful", but that takes your only tactical slot.

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Again, can anyone confirm this was actually on the last version of PTS? Practically speaking I didn't even notice the nerf, if it was, and you'd think this would be a change the Devs would want to test in the phase dedicated to Balance testing.

 

Yes it was.

I don't think it you will notice it in flashpoints, championship or open world pve most of the time. Biggest impact will be on mastermode and veteran opertions.

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Thats what im worried about the most.

 

Well, that's why it was removed. It's extremely OP to have a 60% DR ability every 15s to mitigate huge spikes, especially when it's not a random attack, but planned. Even PT/VG reflect is on a longer cooldown, doesn't work on self, and uses up your area taunt. I see Shadow/SIN and VG/PT tanks as being a good raid combo. One gives your raid reflects, the other gives your raid force shroud.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Well, that's why it was removed. It's extremely OP to have a 60% DR ability every 15s to mitigate huge spikes, especially when it's not a random attack, but planned. Even PT/VG reflect is on a longer cooldown, doesn't work on self, and uses up your area taunt. I see Shadow/SIN and VG/PT tanks as being a good raid combo. One gives your raid reflects, the other gives your raid force shroud.

 

Even if that is the case. Sins as a whole are dead in 6.0. reversing the change to effect all of sins and then reduce the effect to 25% that stacks with gear DF would still be a better option over all. Sins have almost nothing going for them PvP wise and PvE wise they have always been strong as far as tank is concerned. It just long enough to get you through a spike but not long enough actually destroy PvP. It a great oh crap ability for dopa sins in PvP and just supports already week in PvP shadow tanks.

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Even if that is the case. Sins as a whole are dead in 6.0. reversing the change to effect all of sins and then reduce the effect to 25% that stacks with gear DF would still be a better option over all. Sins have almost nothing going for them PvP wise and PvE wise they have always been strong as far as tank is concerned. It just long enough to get you through a spike but not long enough actually destroy PvP. It a great oh crap ability for dopa sins in PvP and just supports already week in PvP shadow tanks.

 

Agreed, sins dont have much going for them and they were never really op so this nerf will hurt and it is unnecessary. 60% all damage absorb has been around for a long time and never have i heard about it ruining either pvp or pve. Played pvp enough against sins and didnt notice them being op thx for this one utility that merely allows for slighly better dmg mitigation.

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Even if that is the case. Sins as a whole are dead in 6.0. reversing the change to effect all of sins and then reduce the effect to 25% that stacks with gear DF would still be a better option over all. Sins have almost nothing going for them PvP wise and PvE wise they have always been strong as far as tank is concerned. It just long enough to get you through a spike but not long enough actually destroy PvP. It a great oh crap ability for dopa sins in PvP and just supports already week in PvP shadow tanks.

 

I think their demise is greatly overstated. Sure the total nerf of force speed dr to 0% on tank is a bit much - should be like 25% for all, but the raid players could see the particular nerf coming from a mile away.

Dps Sins on the other hand are getting buffed technically compared to maras and jugs currently - it is just a finesse class just even more than mara now. Good dps sin players will be very deadly after these adjustments.

The big picture problem is that there are 1 or 2 grossly imbalanced and overtuned classes still there and everyone is comparing themselves to them and that is the problem.

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Ive just heard some disturbing news: they want to nerf Phasing Phantasm utility for sin because its supposedly OP but Juggs will now be able to use their selfheal Enraged Defense as low as every 39 seconds. Looks like another pity party for juggs similar to what happened in 2014 when everyone played them as a result of the extreme boost in survivability and damage they got.

 

Right now before 6.0 comes the best cooldown you can get on the Enraged Defense is 1,5mins.

Edited by Darittha
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