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2.8 patch notes regarding sorcerers and madness


MusicRider

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The patch notes regarding the 2.8 changes for sorcerers are focusing on madness. Namely, these are:

 

  • Creeping Terror now deals slightly more damage.
  • Focal Lightning now grants a 9% per stack bonus to the damage of Lightning Burns.
  • Creeping Death now increases Force Lightning damage by 8.3%/16.67%/25% to targets affected by the player’s Creeping
  • Haunted Dreams now reduces the cast time of Whirlwind by 0.5/1.0 second (up from 0.25/0.5)

 

Personally I find them nice provided that creeping death changes are additions and not replacements. Happy dotting fellow sorcerers.

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Lol at these changes. Madness just became the defacto build for DPS sorcs. Perhaps hybrid will compete with it, in fact it will, but lightning need not apply. It is much easier to shutdown. I can't wait.
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Ahahaha my main is loving these changes. What is lightning spec? Seems like an extinct playstyle from the 1.1 days before the nerf to hybrid and rise of madness.

 

No but really outside the occassional spot in Ops what is Lightning? Itll be an even more exotic breed in PvP now

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i bet the reason is because its a shared tree so they want to buff it for more Assassin use. Actually from reading the patch notes the Madness Sin tree got more buffs than we did...but of course to buff one is to buff the other. Granted, I dont believe we need the buffs but didnt Lightning get a nice buff with 2.7? I dont play the spec obviously so I wouldnt know but anyways the overall issue is that Madness is the only of the two (three depending on who you talk to) specs useful in PvP for a Sorc/Sage. In PvE I think its more what the group wants on this squad (havent done PvE stuff since just before Oricon) but even then Madness will still probably take priority. Idk what the issue is that Lightning is not used as much as Madness but that may be something BW wants to look into
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These changes bring a lot more DPS to sins and sorcs. But I am not sure how the DPS will change in regards to PvE. In PvP this will definitely make sorcs a lot stronger and add a little more burst to the spec. I am a lightning sorc in PvE and it's what I enjoy playing the most between Madness and Lightning. Lightning has become an easier rotation to manage because everything has a proc rate now and is not determined by RNG. Madness has its uses in some fights but I've been able to get by quite well and put out top DPS on certain fights.
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This is weird. Madness is far from being underpowered and they buff its damage, moreover quite significantly it seems.

 

Some abilities in Madness were under performing in comparison to other Classes with dots (mainly Pyro mercs). just because the dots can't be cleared (and once upon a time when they were, it was frustrating to play madness or balance in PvP).

 

These dps changes are needed and well received.

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i dont care about them other buffs for 2.8...only thing i would love to see is the sorc electrocute going back to 30 meters as it was at beginning ..giving a range class a 10 meter stun is funny..hopefully the sorc or sage rep can lobby this for us..

 

having our 30 meter stun back is very helpful to our class..would love Alex or dev tell us some reasons behind the change and see about getting the 30 meter range back..you gonna sins a instant whirlwind which is fair no arguments..give us sorcs the 30 meter stun..

 

we not asking for something new just return it to the original form..

Edited by Xertasian
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Well the reason is the same as for why sorcs lost instant Whirlwind and 360° knockback:

 

They share it with sins and for the melee class 30 stun and an additional instant mezz was both op. The 360° knockback was considered to cause to many unintended knockbacks and thus too much resolve. That is why our knockback is directed forwards like an offenive attack (the way sins used it) and not 360° as a defensive tool like for the other ranged classes. So basically we got screwed because Bioware was not able or better not willing to discriminate between sorcs and sins.

 

But to spit even more in sorc faces they are giving back the instant Whirlwind to madness sins and a free flat cast time reduction of 1 sec for all sins and thus without investing any points they will only have half the cast time as we do. While we should actually be the ones who get the instant Whirlwind because a) we need it and b) we lost it only because of them. Granted madness sins are in need of some love too. But deception sins don't need any more cc potential.

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Well the reason is the same as for why sorcs lost instant Whirlwind and 360° knockback:

 

They share it with sins and for the melee class 30 stun and an additional instant mezz was both op. The 360° knockback was considered to cause to many unintended knockbacks and thus too much resolve. That is why our knockback is directed forwards like an offenive attack (the way sins used it) and not 360° as a defensive tool like for the other ranged classes. So basically we got screwed because Bioware was not able or better not willing to discriminate between sorcs and sins.

 

But to spit even more in sorc faces they are giving back the instant Whirlwind to madness sins and a free flat cast time reduction of 1 sec for all sins and thus without investing any points they will only have half the cast time as we do. While we should actually be the ones who get the instant Whirlwind because a) we need it and b) we lost it only because of them. Granted madness sins are in need of some love too. But deception sins don't need any more cc potential.

 

i hear your point..i can live without the instant whirlwind or 360' knockback for sorcs but the 30 meter electrocute should be given back to us..all sorcs force attacks are 30 meters only make since for our hard stun to be the same.

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Well this is never going to happen because then you could prevent those juggs and maras from charging at you. Just hard stun them put 2 dots on them and walk away, so the distance will be > 30m and they won't get to you.
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Well this is never going to happen because then you could prevent those juggs and maras from charging at you. Just hard stun them put 2 dots on them and walk away, so the distance will be > 30m and they won't get to you.

 

Oh noes, they should never be attacked first and should always be able to start the fight. Honestly, this is a non-issue. If you noticed them first that is their fault for not paying attention or is just unavoidably a part of PVP and not something we should be punished for. If they spot you first and charge you are at a disadvantage especially vs unstoppable. Does that mean we should make charge only useable from 10m? Such logic is fail.

 

If you both hit your buttons at the same time chances are the jugg will be immune as unstoppable hits. If he isn't you burned your 60s CD and his charge is up in 15s. If he force pushes you his charge is up right away and he is now CC immune with push being up again in 45s. On top of this are all his defense CDs. There is not a single good reason for a 10m stun on a ranged class. There is not a single reason for a cast time to WW which needs talents to reduce it to 1s whereas all assassins now have it at 1s passively.

 

Sorcs do not need more CC but assassin's, the CC kings, do? Utter garbage and just another example of the wishy washy inconsistent dev philosophy that has plagued swtor for over 2 years.

Edited by skarlson
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I just had a lenghty dicussion about that with mainly Aelanis in the PTS 2.8 Madness Sin Thread. It seems we are already OP and we just didn't notice. If sins kill us it is only due to their superious playing skills. He has listed how you can easily keep every single melee class at range (for almost all the time). Works always fine in theory but you could also do the same thing the other way around.

 

He is also neglecting that your knockback is malfunctioning quite often do to server lag/positioning probelms where you see the enemy at a completely different place he/she is currently actually at. Plus every other mezz is instant only sorc isn't.

 

But I guess fighting alone in a sin thread to give less to sins and more to others is a lost cause.

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Well this is never going to happen because then you could prevent those juggs and maras from charging at you. Just hard stun them put 2 dots on them and walk away, so the distance will be > 30m and they won't get to you.

 

Oh noes, they should never be attacked first and should always be able to start the fight. Honestly, this is a non-issue. If you noticed them first that is their fault for not paying attention or is just unavoidably a part of PVP and not something we should be punished for. If they spot you first and charge you are at a disadvantage especially vs unstoppable. Does that mean we should make charge only useable from 10m? Such logic is fail.

 

If you both hit your buttons at the same time chances are the jugg will be immune as unstoppable hits. If he isn't you burned your 60s CD and his charge is up in 15s. If he force pushes you his charge is up right away and he is now CC immune with push being up again in 45s. On top of this are all his defense CDs. There is not a single good reason for a 10m stun on a ranged class. There is not a single reason for a cast time to WW which needs talents to reduce it to 1s whereas all assassins now have it at 1s passively.

 

Sorcs do not need more CC but assassin's, the CC kings, do? Utter garbage and just another example of the wishy washy inconsistent dev philosophy that has plagued swtor for over 2 years.

 

because god forbid we are able to fight back against a Warrior/Knight. Other classes have rolls and nets and we get a limited range stun and now poopy CC. Granted, CT, Force Slow, and FL slow effect help put distance but for about a good 1.5 sec then we get pounced again

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Yeah look at snipers, they got insane burst, a lot of cc (instant), interrupt immunity, charge immunity, stun immunity, stealth detection, and "rofl".

 

But they like their warriors, it took them 2 years to bring their damage down to a somewaht reasonable level. Then instead of stopping making warriors godlike, they just switched immortality between the two AC.

 

So I guess we won't be seeing something that will make their lifes a little bit more unconfortable. Since they won't even give madness sorc instant WW back, which won't last long with those dots anyways.

 

But I have to admit in the past months there have been some interesting changes, and over all more changes to balancing than for the prior 2 years. So I am somewhat hopeful that they finally got the message. But maybe it was just because there were new mmos coming out. Guess time will tell.

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Yeah look at snipers, they got insane burst, a lot of cc (instant), interrupt immunity, charge immunity, stun immunity, stealth detection, and "rofl".

 

But they like their warriors, it took them 2 years to bring their damage down to a somewaht reasonable level. Then instead of stopping making warriors godlike, they just switched immortality between the two AC.

 

So I guess we won't be seeing something that will make their lifes a little bit more unconfortable. Since they won't even give madness sorc instant WW back, which won't last long with those dots anyways.

 

But I have to admit in the past months there have been some interesting changes, and over all more changes to balancing than for the prior 2 years. So I am somewhat hopeful that they finally got the message. But maybe it was just because there were new mmos coming out. Guess time will tell.

 

I read over some of his "strategies" and they are so full of fail it isn't worth responding. It is like arguing with a liberal. It takes far less effort to pull random "facts" out of your backside than it does to respond with actual facts. That is the advantage of speaking from your bum, it is much more work for the person responding than for you. I wouldn't take what he says seriously after reading his class by class examples. Force push to reset charge>force choke>ravage timer reset for veng jugg. Grapple and multiple hard stuns on PT. Honestly, just two off the top of my head.

 

The guy is clearly leaving out important details which ought not be left out if we are talking kiting in the context of can it be done and how. He either lacks understanding on the topic or is intellectually dishonest leaving out items that would invalidate the reasoning.

Edited by skarlson
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Well I guess because someone at BW favors melee classes. See balancing in favor for juggs, maras, deception sins and the idiotic smash party for over 2 years.

 

Plus the team that originally designed the classes and the one that balancing screwed up balancing completely are long gone. So to those guys doing it right now it is not a "giving back what was take away out of an attack of ignorance and flaming smashers" but rather a "giving sorcs more cc would only add cc to an otherwise already cc loaded game ... the original designers knew why they didn't make it instant" (well accept that they did, but those guys probably don't even know or play warrior / deception sin / sniper.

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Well I guess because someone at BW favors melee classes. See balancing in favor for juggs, maras, deception sins and the idiotic smash party for over 2 years.

 

Plus the team that originally designed the classes and the one that balancing screwed up balancing completely are long gone. So to those guys doing it right now it is not a "giving back what was take away out of an attack of ignorance and flaming smashers" but rather a "giving sorcs more cc would only add cc to an otherwise already cc loaded game ... the original designers knew why they didn't make it instant" (well accept that they did, but those guys probably don't even know or play warrior / deception sin / sniper.

 

here's the rub im not asking for more cc to sorcs..just want our 30 meter range back on electrocute how it was in the beginning..thats only fair for a truly range class that uses 30 meter force attacks..unless you can provide a solid reason why sorc's electrocute is only 10 meters please enlighten us..

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Well don't get me wrong, I like the 30m better. So you didn't have to wait for the smash monkeys to charge at you. The solid reason is BW likes melees and doesn't like range. Is it fair? No! Do they care? No! It was a ****** idea 2 years ago and still is. But the fact that they reveresed neither of those stupid changes shows me that they don't care or don't want to do it.

 

Also they never replied to any of those posts asking to get our 30m eletrocute or instant WW or 360° knockback back. Why? Because they probably don't have a good explanation for why we shouldn't have it and they can hardly say: "we just like melees better" that would be bad for the business.

 

But it is outrageous that we lost instant WW (like all the other cc changes) because of sins and now they are getting it back but we aren't.

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Well don't get me wrong, I like the 30m better. So you didn't have to wait for the smash monkeys to charge at you. The solid reason is BW likes melees and doesn't like range. Is it fair? No! Do they care? No! It was a ****** idea 2 years ago and still is. But the fact that they reveresed neither of those stupid changes shows me that they don't care or don't want to do it.

 

Also they never replied to any of those posts asking to get our 30m eletrocute or instant WW or 360° knockback back. Why? Because they probably don't have a good explanation for why we shouldn't have it and they can hardly say: "we just like melees better" that would be bad for the business.

 

But it is outrageous that we lost instant WW (like all the other cc changes) because of sins and now they are getting it back but we aren't.

 

guess we all should petition to the class rep for 30 meter electrocute for sorc..i feel giving sorcs more damage buffs wont solve the problem in general..sure it dont seem like much but that 30 meter stun can make the difference from stopping a vengeance jugg leaping to you.

 

instead of waiting till he jump to u then wait for unstoppable to ware off then stun him..in that time frame the jugg would had knock off your hp a good bit..sure they gonna say kite but against a vengeance jugg they have best control hands down..easier said than done to get away..

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What happens more often than not when you try to stun a Guardian/Jug before he leaps to you with Unstoppable/Unremitting is that you waste the stun. By the time your stun command arrives to the server, they will have already gained their cc immunity. Try it with sever force / creeping terror.

 

Honestly, 30 m range on stun was only marginally better than 10 m when used defensively. It made more of a difference when used offensively, to get slingers out of cover or stun ballcarrier in fire and similar, which is the reason its range was reduced.

Edited by ceazare
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With the current state of the game giving back the 30m stun exclusively to one class is out of question. Reverting it to more than one classes is again out of question, there is enough cc already.

 

On the other hand giving instant spec force lift, as it used to be, is the right move to do; cause trying to get a force lift with no protection to pushback or interrupts and clever los is pretty much difficult. And we know how much favourite sorcs are as targets. There is no way for a sorc with his inherit abilities (ie excluding grenade) to punish a melee for breaking early a cc.

 

Regarding shadows it is absurd to give them a 30m instant cc, they will be the only melee class with a ranged cc where its uses are numerous and very powerful.

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