Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Good article, it applies to many who post here.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Good article, it applies to many who post here.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.12.2019 , 08:25 PM | #11
I’m feeling a bit disillusioned about 6.0
They said we’d be able to test all these class changes on the PTS, starting with the Sorc. But each week they tell us a new classes changes and then dont put them on the PTS. So any feed back we give them is totally hypothetical and guess work.
My fear is they are going to run the clock down and finally release stuff to test when it’s too late for them to change anything.
Which goes against everything they said they were going to do about listening and having two way communication.
Since the announcement, there hasn’t really been any back and forth communications. They just dump the info and move on.
It took Musco nearly 5 weeks to reply to us about the Guild bank bug. Which doesn’t bode well for any problems before and especially after 6.0 launches.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
07.12.2019 , 09:13 PM | #12
The problem with this style of MMO is the developers expect you to be entertained by doing the same static content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... well you get the point...
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
07.12.2019 , 09:19 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’m feeling a bit disillusioned about 6.0
They said we’d be able to test all these class changes on the PTS, starting with the Sorc. But each week they tell us a new classes changes and then dont put them on the PTS. So any feed back we give them is totally hypothetical and guess work.
My fear is they are going to run the clock down and finally release stuff to test when it’s too late for them to change anything.
Which goes against everything they said they were going to do about listening and having two way communication.
Since the announcement, there hasn’t really been any back and forth communications. They just dump the info and move on.
It took Musco nearly 5 weeks to reply to us about the Guild bank bug. Which doesn’t bode well for any problems before and especially after 6.0 launches.
IMO ... If they need to back the release of 6.0 to Dec 1... then they should. Just make sure they squash some bugs along the way !

Let's face it: Sept is not that far away. And I'm certain that BW team is acutely aware of it !
(████████████████████████████]:|█[ioi]█[|||████]|█|

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.12.2019 , 09:24 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by OlBuzzard View Post
IMO ... If they need to back the release of 6.0 to Dec 1... then they should. Just make sure they squash some bugs along the way !

Let's face it: Sept is not that far away. And I'm certain that BW team is acutely aware of it !
December is too late in the year. Past experience shows when they release the expansion in December, they don’t fix anything before they go on holidays and we end up with 8 weeks worth of game breaking bugs or problems.

I agree, September is probably too early to release at this stage because they’ve still not released the PTS combat testing. They could push back the final launch to the end of October and still have 8 weeks to fix problems before their Xmas holiday break.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
07.12.2019 , 09:28 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
December is too late in the year. Past experience shows when they release the expansion in December, they don’t fix anything before they go on holidays and we end up with 8 weeks worth of game breaking bugs or problems.

I agree, September is probably too early to release at this stage because they’ve still not released the PTS combat testing. They could push back the final launch to the end of October and still have 8 weeks to fix problems before their Xmas holiday break.
[/scratches head]
hmmmm
I see your point. And it's one that is well noted.

Agreed ! Makes good sense !
(████████████████████████████]:|█[ioi]█[|||████]|█|

MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
07.12.2019 , 09:55 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
This part reminds me of the people who are left who praise KotFE, even though it resulted in one of the largest exoduses from the game eventually since people were pissed that after having lost their class story now lost their companions AND any connection to their original story. They remind me of Nero fiddling as rome was burning.
Your arguments have about as much basis as your example about Nero playing the fiddle...

Who are you to make grandiose judgements about the views of the wider player base? Please speak for yourself and no one else. (I for one enjoyed KOTFE/KOTET. Not perfect for sure, but still enjoyable. Certainly wasn't "pissed")


FUN FACT: the fiddle was not invented until about 1000 years after Nero.
Demand: Are. We. There. Yet.

Use my referral link for free goodies.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.12.2019 , 10:24 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’m feeling a bit disillusioned about 6.0
They said we’d be able to test all these class changes on the PTS, starting with the Sorc. But each week they tell us a new classes changes and then dont put them on the PTS. So any feed back we give them is totally hypothetical and guess work.
My fear is they are going to run the clock down and finally release stuff to test when it’s too late for them to change anything.
Which goes against everything they said they were going to do about listening and having two way communication.
Since the announcement, there hasn’t really been any back and forth communications. They just dump the info and move on.
It took Musco nearly 5 weeks to reply to us about the Guild bank bug. Which doesn’t bode well for any problems before and especially after 6.0 launches.
Odds are we are once again going to be given a mess to deal with and more people will hit the breaking point and leave. I don't like those odds. I don't want it to be the case. But if we look at how the studio has performed over the life of this game, that's what is most likely. What form that mess takes is anyone's guess. I mean, who would have guessed a conquest change would result in ability lag for a week straight.

If Onslaught is released without any major hitches (design or technical) I will gladly take the egg on my face for being wrong. I see no reason to believe it will happen that way though.
Clicky referral link for freebies, read how referral works.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.12.2019 , 10:29 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by MadDutchman View Post
Your arguments have about as much basis as your example about Nero playing the fiddle...

Who are you to make grandiose judgements about the views of the wider player base? Please speak for yourself and no one else. (I for one enjoyed KOTFE/KOTET. Not perfect for sure, but still enjoyable. Certainly wasn't "pissed")


FUN FACT: the fiddle was not invented until about 1000 years after Nero.
Sad Fact : many, many players left during that period because they didn’t like the direction the game took.

It doesn’t matter if you or I liked it. There were more people who disliked it and left because of it. Sure some people came to the game because it went more solo. But then left again once they played through the story content and didn’t hang around for the other MMO parts of the game because they didn’t want to play an MMO, they wanted to play a solo RPG game like KOTOR.

Those expansion hurt the overall stable player base that hangs around between expansions or new content. When 5.0 was launched, they drove off a lot of the most stable player base in the game, the pvpers (Bioware themselves have acknowledged in the past the pvp community was the most stable).

Those people they drove away and alienated during the expansions were mainly the MMO centric players and some of their longest and most loyal subscribers. Why do you think we have such a significantly reduced population now? Yes, there is natural player attrition, but not so drastic.

Bioware banked on getting enough RPG solo people to come play and expected the MMO guys would just hang around anyway because we always had. Problem is, when they turn an MMO into a solo “only” experience in the story, the MMO players leave. Especially when the other MMO parts of the game are ignored and become stale while they focus 3 years on Solo RPG players. Then the Solo RPG players start to leave when they run out of content because Bioware can’t release it fast enough for them.

Bioware went from having a fairly stable subscriber base to seesawing backwards and forward. I think they realised this after 5.0 was released and a bunch of the stable pvp player base just up and left and have never returned. (Id say half considering whole pvp guilds disappeared, including my own),
That is part of the reason Keith started to spread out the content between story, pvp and Operations/Flashpoints. They knew they would keep losing more of their loyal player base if they didn’t stabilise the game to be more balanced around all game play.

So, it doesn’t matter wether we liked those expansions or not, even Bioware have acknowledged they went to far with ignoring the MMO feel of the game.
That’s what he’s trying to point out, that the direction the game took at the time was detrimental to it,

Celise's Avatar


Celise
07.13.2019 , 01:38 AM | #19
First words said on the article: "Game developers, it's time to stop listening to the fans" and then it starts off "Don't get mad..."

It's already dead before it even got published, just on those few words alone.

Game developers rely on their customers every bit the customers rely on the game developers to bring out something good. if game developers start ignoring their customer base, you'll end up with another delta rising from Star Trek Online and that stupid meme about the playings loving DR because one of the management people in Cryptic was so out of touch during one interview that every other customer started teasing Cryptic relentlessly because the players loved DR so much.. apparently. It went from teasing to abusive pretty quickly.

Developers who don't act towards what the players want about half the time expect to be burned for it, if there are changes made that don't help anyone it is always going to end in a disaster. SWTOR for example; with 5.0 launched it came with GC, and GC was a disaster by itself without any help from anyone, it was like a heavy weighted object that was automatically clipped to the F2p customer base which dragged most of them to their deaths in a figurative sense. Someone went out of their way within BW to commit virtual suicide and that is without any discussion from the customer base before hand.

Developers lose their way altogether if they don't have a counter-acting force to keep them in balance from thinking of the worst possible ideas they can come up with and say it is something wonderful, only to realise before launch there is a backlash and privately realise it was a mistake and now it is par for the course.

I'm not going to put the developers themselves in that, they do what the management says they should do, and ultimately this mess could and should of been avoidied if there was greater, constant feedback and discussions between developer and customer.

consequently absent developers from their own forums often lead to toxicity building up over time and that leads to self-destruction within the community. it has happened in other game forums in the past and it can and will happen again. This is opposite to customers liking to interact with developers, share thoughts and ideas, to feel like they're a contributing factor and it makes everyone happy, more so when developers get involved and are happy to spare some time to interact.

There is nothing wrong with developers listening to the fans, but there is just something wrong when there is no communication at all; be it by design or accident, it has the same consequence.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.13.2019 , 01:49 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
consequently absent developers from their own forums often lead to toxicity building up over time and that leads to self-destruction within the community. it has happened in other game forums in the past and it can and will happen again. This is opposite to customers liking to interact with developers, share thoughts and ideas, to feel like they're a contributing factor and it makes everyone happy, more so when developers get involved and are happy to spare some time to interact.
I have to say, I don't expect the developers themselves to go above and beyond their jobs to talk to players - I think that's always something that should be left up to them - but the idea that a studio with hundreds of people involved in development can't afford the budget to have a single person whose primary role is to communicate back and forth with the players boggles my mind.

In theory, intuitively, you'd think that's Eric's role, but unless he's just showing up at work and watching Netflix all day, I'm pretty sure that's not what most of his job is. Presumably he has lots of other duties (I guess stuff like writing tweets, organizing events, writing blog posts maybe, attending meetings and taking notes), which is why he so rarely communicates directly with the players.

So then you think, well why can't they have someone under him whose actual job description is just to communicate? Who knows, probably not considered to be a justifiable expense. Even though that kind of presence - if done well, by the right kind of person - could work wonders in terms of how people feel about progress on the game and concerns being heard.
Clicky referral link for freebies, read how referral works.