Goblin_Lackey Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) 4.0 KOTFE Augmentation With the new changes to critical and the higher stat budgets the best choice for augmentation has drastically changed. The result of this change is that all class will want to have tertiary stat augments NOT Mastery nor Power. The reason for this is that tertiary stats represent multiplicative increases while Power and Mastery represent additive increases. In the same vein, Eviscerating Crystals are actually stronger than Hawkeye crystals. Conclusions: 1) Only Augment with Accuracy, Critical, and/or Alacrity (for all DPS and all healers) 2) Only Use Eviscerating crystals (Full Optimal Stats Post Coming soon to new thread) ----------------------------------------------- To show this, I will show the result of choosing different augments and crystals. The following is an example for how to rationally decide what the optimal augment choices should be. Note: This is only an example and this is not actually the methodology that I use to find the optimal stat distribution. In my optimal stats post (under construction), I test every combination of augments and enhancements to find the value that is closesest to the max level. That method allows me to find the max DPS without preconceptions. Pre-Augments, a character in all 220 ilvl would have the following Stat Budget including an active purple Versitile Anodyne Stim, all Datacrons and all class buffs: Concealment Operative 5158 Mastery (4912 before buff) 2779 Power (does not include crystals) 1600 Tertiary (Critical + Accuracy + Alactrity) 82 Crystals (Power or Critical) 1022 Augments (any stat) To show that Critical and Alacrity Augments are now the best augments to use, I will go through a character's augment choices one by one until all 14 augments and both crystals have been chosen. The augment chosen will always be the augment that provides the largest DPS boost. I consider the following augments each time: Mastery, Power, Alacrity and Critical. If the Accuracy rating is below the 684 threshold, an Accuracy augment is used instead. I will use Concealment Operatives as my discipline example. This choice will allow me to show the relative changes in DPS from each augment. This methodology works for all disciplines, including healers and tanks. For Concealment, the basic rotation is as follows: Veiled Strike -> Lacerate -> Backstab -> Filler Veiled Strike -> Lacerate -> Lacerate -> Filler where Filler = Volatile Substance > Crippling Slice > Corrosive Dart > Rifle Shot The tertiary stat enhancements are pre-distributed in the following arrangement: 2 Accuracy Enhancements 4 Alacrity Enhancements 4 Critical Enhancements The split between Alacrity and Critical here is arbitrary. It just gives us a base starting point. Concealment Operative Augment Choice 1: Current Stats 5778.08 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 320 Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 105.61% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Accuracy Augment: Accuracy is less than 110%, thus an Accuracy augment is used Augment Choice #1 is a Accuracy Augment Augment Choice 2: Current Stats 5835.4 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 393 (1xAugs) Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 106.56% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Accuracy Augment: Accuracy is less than 110%, thus an Accuracy augment is used Augment Choice #2 is a Accuracy Augment Augment Choice 3: Current Stats 5890.58 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 466 (2xAugs) Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 107.47% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Accuracy Augment: Accuracy is less than 110%, thus an Accuracy augment is used Augment Choice #3 is a Accuracy Augment Augment Choice 4: Current Stats 5943.7 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 539 (3xAugs) Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 108.35% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Accuracy Augment: Accuracy is less than 110%, thus an Accuracy augment is used Augment Choice #4 is a Accuracy Augment Augment Choice 5: Current Stats 5994.83 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 612 (4xAugs) Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 109.2% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Accuracy Augment: Accuracy is less than 110%, thus an Accuracy augment is used Augment Choice #5 is a Accuracy Augment Augment Choice 6: Current Stats 6044.05 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 640 Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 31.69% Critical Chance | 61.23% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6078.51 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 34.46 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 31.8% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6078.74 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 34.69 (+0.574%) Critical Augment: 32.61% (+0.92%) Critcal Chance 62.15% (+0.92%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6092.16 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 48.11 (+0.796%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6083.43 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 39.38 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #6 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 7: Current Stats 6092.16 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 713 (1xAugs) Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 32.61% Critical Chance | 62.15% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6126.89 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 34.73 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 32.72% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6127.14 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 34.98 (+0.574%) Critical Augment: 33.49% (+0.88%) Critcal Chance 63.03% (+0.88%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6138.76 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 46.61 (+0.765%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6131.85 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 39.69 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #7 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 8: Current Stats 6138.76 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 786 (2xAugs) Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 33.49% Critical Chance | 63.03% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6173.76 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 33.59% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6174.03 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.27 (+0.574%) Critical Augment: 34.32% (+0.84%) Critcal Chance 63.86% (+0.84%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6183.87 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 45.11 (+0.735%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6178.76 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 40 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #8 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 9: Current Stats 6183.87 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 859 (3xAugs) Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 34.32% Critical Chance | 63.86% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6219.13 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.26 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 34.43% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6219.41 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.54 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 35.12% (+0.8%) Critcal Chance 64.66% (+0.8%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6227.49 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 43.62 (+0.705%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6224.16 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 40.29 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #9 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 10: Current Stats 6227.49 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 932 (4xAugs) Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 35.12% Critical Chance | 64.66% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6263 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.5 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 35.22% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6263.3 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.81 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 35.88% (+0.76%) Critcal Chance 65.42% (+0.76%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6269.64 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 42.14 (+0.677%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6268.07 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 40.57 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #10 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 11: Current Stats 6269.64 DPS | 44.94 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1005 (5xAugs) Critical | 640 Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 35.88% Critical Chance | 65.42% Critical Bonus | 7.03% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6305.38 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 35.74 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 35.98% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6305.7 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 36.06 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 36.6% (+0.72%) Critcal Chance 66.14% (+0.72%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6310.33 @ 44.94 APM, Change in DPS = 40.69 (+0.649%) Alacrity Augment: 7.72% (+0.69%) Alacrity DPS: 6310.49 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 40.85 (+0.652%) Augment Choice #11 is a Alacrity Augment Augment Choice 12: Current Stats 6310.49 DPS | 45.22 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1005 (5xAugs) Critical | 713 (1xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 35.88% Critical Chance | 65.42% Critical Bonus | 7.72% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6346.46 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 35.97 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 35.98% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6346.78 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 36.29 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 36.6% (+0.72%) Critcal Chance 66.14% (+0.72%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6351.44 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 40.95 (+0.649%) Alacrity Augment: 8.39% (+0.67%) Alacrity DPS: 6350.12 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 39.63 (+0.628%) Augment Choice #12 is a Critical Augment Augment Choice 13: Current Stats 6351.44 DPS | 45.22 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1078 (6xAugs) Critical | 713 (1xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 36.6% Critical Chance | 66.14% Critical Bonus | 7.72% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6387.65 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 36.21 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 36.71% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6387.98 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 36.54 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 37.29% (+0.69%) Critcal Chance 66.83% (+0.69%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6390.95 @ 45.22 APM, Change in DPS = 39.51 (+0.622%) Alacrity Augment: 8.39% (+0.67%) Alacrity DPS: 6391.33 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 39.89 (+0.628%) Augment Choice #13 is a Alacrity Augment Augment Choice 14: Current Stats 6391.33 DPS | 45.5 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1078 (6xAugs) Critical | 786 (2xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 36.6% Critical Chance | 66.14% Critical Bonus | 8.39% Alacrity Power Augment: 1771.9 (+17.6) Bonus Damage & 2539.3 (+17.6) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6427.76 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 36.43 (+0.57%) Mastery Augment: 36.71% (+0.1%) Critcal Chance 1770.3 (+16.1) Bonus Damage & 2537.8 (+16.1) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6428.09 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 36.76 (+0.575%) Critical Augment: 37.29% (+0.69%) Critcal Chance 66.83% (+0.69%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6431.09 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 39.76 (+0.622%) Alacrity Augment: 9.04% (+0.65%) Alacrity DPS: 6430.04 @ 45.77 APM, Change in DPS = 38.71 (+0.606%) Augment Choice #14 is a Critical Augment Crystal Choice 1: Current Stats 6431.09 DPS | 45.5 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1151 (7xAugs) Critical | 786 (2xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 37.29% Critical Chance | 66.83% Critical Bonus | 8.39% Alacrity Hawkeye Crystal 1764.1 (+9.9) Bonus Damage & 2531.6 (+9.9) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6451.68 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 20.59 (+0.32%) Eviscerating Crystal 37.67% (+0.37%) Critcal Chance 67.21% (+0.37%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6452.79 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 21.7 (+0.337%) Crystal Choice #1 is a Critical Crystal Crystal Choice 2: Current Stats 6452.79 DPS | 45.5 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1192 (7xAugs) (1xCrystals) Critical | 786 (2xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 37.67% Critical Chance | 67.21% Critical Bonus | 8.39% Alacrity Hawkeye Crystal 1764.1 (+9.9) Bonus Damage & 2531.6 (+9.9) Bonus Tech Damage DPS: 6473.45 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 20.66 (+0.32%) Eviscerating Crystal 38.03% (+0.36%) Critcal Chance 67.57% (+0.36%) Critcal Multiplier DPS: 6474.05 @ 45.5 APM, Change in DPS = 21.26 (+0.329%) Crystal Choice #2 is a Critical Crystal Final Stats: 6474.05 DPS | 45.5 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAugs) Accuracy | 1233 (7xAugs) (2xCrystals) Critical | 786 (2xAugs) Alacrity 1754.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 38.03% Critical Chance | 67.57% Critical Bonus | 8.39% Alacrity By the way, this result does not match my optimal stats. The results from the optimal stats post test every possible combination of crystal, augment and enhancement. This allows for finer tuned results that reflect the true maximum. If you look back at my assumptions, I had preset an evenly divided set of enhancements. This is just because I wanted to give a closer look at augments. Again, the methodology I usually use relys on testing each combination individually instead of the additive stat distribution shown here. Gearing to keep in mind: Crystals (41) ~=~ 1/2 Augment (73) Augments (73) ~=~ 1/2 Enhancement (152->160->168) Because they are not exact multiples of each other, mixing and matching can be used to reach different number combinations. But they are close enough that all optimal stat combinations end up within an Enhancement of each other. For Comparison: This is the actual optimal result: Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper 220 Item Level (Exarch) Optimal Gearing: 6474.14 DPS | 45.7 APM | 5158 Mastery | 2779 Power | 685 (5xAug) Accuracy | 1174 (4xAugs) (2xCrystals) Critical | 845 (5xAug) Alacrity 1745.2 Bonus Damage | 2521.7 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 37.50% Critical Chance | 67.05% Critical Bonus | 8.91% Alacrity Mastery Augments and Hawkeye Crystals + 5 Accuracy Augments: 6406.71 DPS | 44.3 APM | 5847 (9xAug) Mastery | 2861 (2xCrystals) Power | 685 (5xAug) Accuracy | 800 Critical | 480 Alacrity 1918.9 Bonus Damage | 2686.4 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 34.55% Critical Chance | 63.19% Critical Bonus | 5.44% Alacrity DPS loss of 67.43 (-1.04%) versus Optimal Stat Gearing Power Augments and Hawkeye Crystals + 5 Accuracy Augments: 6404.20 DPS | 44.3 APM | 5158 Mastery | 3518 (9xAugs) (2xCrystals) Power | 685 (5xAug) Accuracy | 800 Critical | 480 Alacrity 1932.7 Bonus Damage | 2700.2 Bonus Tech | 110.01% Accuracy | 33.65% Critical Chance | 63.19% Critical Bonus | 5.44% Alacrity DPS loss of 69.94 (-1.08%) versus Optimal Stat Gearing Result: 100% of the time it is a DPS loss to ever use Power or Master Augments. Use Tertiary Stat Augments for ALL classes. Edited November 5, 2015 by Goblin_Lackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 nice. can't wait to see your new werk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Thank you! Was waiting for some crunch before craftbinging. Could you also calculate for 208 (PvP)? Edited October 22, 2015 by flem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just a question: This Augmentation is really just for sustained dps rotations with 100% uptime, isn't it? So for PvP, where ttk is a lot lower and dps uptime isn't even close to 100% and you've got a lot of situations where you better stun, off heal or the like instead of dpsing, Mastery or Power Augments would still be viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arunas Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just a question: This Augmentation is really just for sustained dps rotations with 100% uptime, isn't it? So for PvP, where ttk is a lot lower and dps uptime isn't even close to 100% and you've got a lot of situations where you better stun, off heal or the like instead of dpsing, Mastery or Power Augments would still be viable? Think we would need some crit augments now, just not sure how much. For example, for something like fury you want your autocrits to be as big as possible. Will need to do some math to figure this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Just a question: This Augmentation is really just for sustained dps rotations with 100% uptime, isn't it? So for PvP, where ttk is a lot lower and dps uptime isn't even close to 100% and you've got a lot of situations where you better stun, off heal or the like instead of dpsing, Mastery or Power Augments would still be viable?No. This sort of thinking makes no sense. If you have 100s of combat powers it doesn't matter whether they're in one chunk or spread out over three minutes. Or rather, to the extent it does (big cooldowns are a larger chunk of everything) there's no reason for the latter to favor a no-tertiary distribution more than not. Edited October 22, 2015 by flem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 quick question. What's the new standard health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin_Lackey Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 quick question. What's the new standard health? I haven't leveled a healing class up yet so I don't know the number for base healing Base damage: 4465 Base heal: ? Base health: 12775 These two numbers were found on my assassin at lvl 65 by the standard linear algebra method. (I know these aren't the right in game names, but its what I always end up calling them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IInox Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nice thanks man. I love this new crit rating but I think BW will nerf it again and ofc it will hurt a lot to infiltration...:\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) i am seeing similar results with my toy model. mastery 5158 power rating 2779 crit rating 1152.737549 surge accuracy rating 683.8587262 alacrity rating 946.403725 force/tech power 5000 this is what im optimizing: dps= (1-miss_chance)*(avg_hit+bonus_mastery+bonus_power+bonus_force)*(1+crit_chance*surge)*(1+alacrity) i have assumed 5% buff to power and mastery, 6% crit buff, 1% surge buff, 1% accuracy buff, 5% force power buff, 5% base crit, 50% base surge. with the following constraints: power from 2779 to 3801 mastery 5158 to 6180 (crit-81)+alacrity+accuracy+(mastery-3210)+(power-3086) = 2702 accuracy<=1 i am getting the same results regardless of average hit and force power. adding 10% buffs to both cirt and surge gives: mastery 5158 power rating 2779 crit rating 1234.990325 surge accuracy rating 683.8587262 alacrity rating 864.1509486 force/tech power 4200 Edited October 22, 2015 by dipstik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin_Lackey Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) i am seeing similar results with my toy model. mastery 3210 power rating 3086 crit rating 1102 accuracy rating 684 alacrity rating 916 force/tech power 5000, average hit =1400 interestingly, the average hit and force/tech power seem to not affect the optimal stats spit out my excel. mastery 3210 power rating 3086 crit rating 1102 accuracy rating 684 alacrity rating 916 force/tech power 9000, average hit =3000 this is what im optimizing: dps= (1-miss_chance)*(avg_hit+bonus_mastery+bonus_power+bonus_force)*(1+crit_chance*surge)*(1+alacrity) i have assumed 5% buff to power and mastery, 6% crit buff, 1% surge buff, 1% accuracy buff, 5% force power buff, 5% base crit, 50% base surge. with the following constraints: power from 3086 to 4108 mastery 3210 to 4232 crit+alacrity+accuracy+(mastery-3210)+(power-3086) = 2702 I'm finding similar things, most of the inputs don't seem to matter, I can change the bonuses from individual classes or even change classes entirely without the results changing much. Most of the results come within a narrow range. Within an enhancement narrow range. (I do individual modification step sizes, so an enhancement's worth of distribution seems very small). And this only effects the ratio of critical to alacrity, mastery and power are always minimized in favor of maximizing tertiary stats. This does make glad that I prioritized unlocking all 4 variations of every pink crystal so that I can always color match. Edited October 22, 2015 by Goblin_Lackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Just a question: This Augmentation is really just for sustained dps rotations with 100% uptime, isn't it? So for PvP, where ttk is a lot lower and dps uptime isn't even close to 100% and you've got a lot of situations where you better stun, off heal or the like instead of dpsing, Mastery or Power Augments would still be viable? The thing is, crit buffs your auto-Crits which are usually the things that you hold onto to kill someone, as well as your chance to crit on non-auto-Crits, as well as still buffing their surge. If you were going to crit on everything anyway, power might be better, but crit is still useful in that it lowers your chances at failing lining up a burst window to surprise the healer and tank, increases viability in tank tunneling situations since you can't shield Crits, and just makes everything in general hit harder since you get so much crit chance back, especially if you still have a 30% surge boost like Snipers, Powertechs, and Mercs. Even if you only have 10%, the Power returns need to be over 10% more damage on everything to make up for it, and you still lose the impact of literally critting half the time unless RNGsus was on your side. I'm just speaking out of my butt here cause I haven't been able to try it out in action, but I'm thinking Arsenal, AP, and Marksmanship will wanna go for a sort of mega-crit build. Everything else could want different augments but will still want crit on basically all of their enhancements. Edited October 22, 2015 by OMGITSJAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I see no damage formulas here. Only stats and then a claim of dps gained or lost without any work shown. You need something like this bro: (2(1.05)(2476)+400)(1+(.75)(.01)(23+30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))(.50+.15+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))+(.25)(.50+.15+.10+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))+.23+.30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))))(1+.30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(((1370-x)/65)/1.25))) = ymax at 895 crit That is just a crit vs alacrity graph as an example. You need the ability damage coefficient to base damage ratio, the 5% bonus damage class buff, your bonus damage prior to the stats in question being calculated, the total non-autocrit and auto-crit percentages, the crit chance prior to the stats in question being calculated, the crit chance formula, the surge formula, the surge formula for autocrits, and the alacrity formula. At least. Whatever method you are using is grossly simplified and woefully inadequate. Edited October 22, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 dps= (1-miss_chance)*(avg_hit+bonus_mastery+bonus_power+bonus_force)*(1+crit_chance*surge)*(1+alacrity) Shouldn,t it be dps= (1-miss_chance)*(avg_hit+bonus_mastery+bonus_power+bonus_force)*(1+crit_chance*surge)/[1=alacrity)?? The correct formula to apply alacrity is t/(1+alac). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IInox Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I see no damage formulas here. Only stats and then a claim of dps gained or lost without any work shown. You need something like this bro: (2(1.05)(2476)+400)(1+(.75)(.01)(23+30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))(.50+.15+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))+(.25)(.50+.15+.10+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))+.23+.30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))))(1+.30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(((1370-x)/65)/1.25))) = ymax at 895 crit That is just a crit vs alacrity graph as an example. You need the ability damage coefficient to base damage ratio, the 5% bonus damage class buff, your bonus damage prior to the stats in question being calculated, the total non-autocrit and auto-crit percentages, the crit chance prior to the stats in question being calculated, the crit chance formula, the surge formula, the surge formula for autocrits, and the alacrity formula. At least. Whatever method you are using is grossly simplified and woefully inadequate. You should be new in town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) You should be new in town Been here since launch. The op is a wanna-be theorycrafter. My method takes things into account that he and others don't. Edited October 22, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Shouldn,t it be dps= (1-miss_chance)*(avg_hit+bonus_mastery+bonus_power+bonus_force)*(1+crit_chance*surge)/[1=alacrity)?? The correct formula to apply alacrity is t/(1+alac). Nope, dipstik was right. If you could ever get to 100% alacrity, it would double your dps from 0 alacrity (1+1=2) Edited October 22, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) they changed the way alacrity works in 3.0 i think. kak, lacky has taken full rotations and buffs into account (obviously equations). he will put up his sheets in due time, at which point your feedback will produce more meaningful discussion (since right now we dont have much to critique). there are always some assumptions that get put into the model for ease of calculation, but he does a pretty good job of getting values for sustained. iinox! been a while. remember geeking out on ino style sheets with you back in 2.x days. Edited October 22, 2015 by dipstik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) they changed the way alacrity works in 3.0 i think. kak, lacky has taken full rotations and buffs into account (obviously equations). he will put up his sheets in due time. there are always some assumptions that get put into the model for ease of calculation, but he does a pretty good job of getting values for sustained. iinox! been a while. remember geeking out on ino style sheets with you back in 2.x days. Not that I'm aware of. And I'm looking forward to seeing his work. Edited October 22, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 if your results are correct, then 1% is negligible. Basically it doesnt matter which augments to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayLoud Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 if your results are correct, then 1% is negligible. Basically it doesnt matter which augments to use So, stat budget is all that matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) So, stat budget is all that matters? I'm no expert, but to me 1% is nothing. Because you can't get a perfect 100% uptime on the boss in any ops anyway. In 16m unless you have a mainframe at your disposal you will get lag and ability delay and all that crap so alacrity will be useless to you. Even in 8m. For example with alacrity I on a dummy could manage putting in ravage+blast in gore window without berzerk - but never in ops evnironment, because of ability delay and lag. It's like in 3.0 we argued between main stat and power augments and came to conlusion that the difference was like 1 or less percent and you could go with whichever you like, it didnt matter. Edited October 22, 2015 by power-alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbashedDuk Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 For example with alacrity I on a dummy could manage putting in ravage+blast in gore window without berzerk - but never in ops evnironment, because of ability delay and lag. Not all of us have ****** computers lol and I have not noticed any ability lag in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Not all of us have ****** computers lol and I have not noticed any ability lag in a long time. It's not about ability lag.. Just the slightly higher latency in raid than in your ship in front of the dummy. Pulling a VT>Rav>DB or a VT>G>Rav>DB is doable with the right amount of alacrity and perfect execution. It's not in raid environment just because you need about 0 ms delay. Even the best comps have 10-20ms delay which is enough to throw off the VT>G>Rav>DB combo and make G>Rav>DB significantly more luck-based than I'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin_Lackey Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I see no damage formulas here. Only stats and then a claim of dps gained or lost without any work shown. You need something like this bro: (2(1.05)(2476)+400)(1+(.75)(.01)(23+30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))(.50+.15+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8)))+(.25)(.50+.15+.10+.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))+.23+.30(1- (1- (0.01/0.3))^((x/65)/0.8))))(1+.30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(((1370-x)/65)/1.25))) = ymax at 895 crit That is just a crit vs alacrity graph as an example. You need the ability damage coefficient to base damage ratio, the 5% bonus damage class buff, your bonus damage prior to the stats in question being calculated, the total non-autocrit and auto-crit percentages, the crit chance prior to the stats in question being calculated, the crit chance formula, the surge formula, the surge formula for autocrits, and the alacrity formula. At least. Whatever method you are using is grossly simplified and woefully inadequate. You are right, I should really show more of my work here. But the problem is, that to do it full justice it really needs its own post just to explain the system (I had one prior to 4.0 but over-zealous moderation removed it). I am currently working on an updated version that should be out soon (still data gathering on all of the changes and reformatting). Until that is posted, please believe me that I have taken into account and had included all of the inputs you posted and many, many, more. I have included a small section that shows a very simplified version from this just as an example: [DPS] = 1 / ( 0.7 / [Normal DPS] + 0.3 / [Execute DPS] ) [Normal DPS] = sum of all individual [Abilities DPS] [Execute DPS] = sum of all individual [Abilities DPS] when sub 30% [Ability DPS] = ( ( [Avg Mainhand Weapon Damage] x [1 + AmountModifierPercent] + [bonus Damage/Force/Tech/Heal] x [Coefficient] + [Avg StandardHealthPercent]*[base_DMG or Base_Heal] ) x [Accuracy %] + [Avg offhand Weapon Damage] x [1 + AmountModifierPercent] x [Offhand Accuracy] ) x (1 + ( ( [Crit %] + [Ability Crit % bonus] ) + [Autocrit Proc Rate] / [Time Averaged Usage] ) x ( [Crit Bonus Damage] + [Ability Crit Damage Bonus] ) ) x (1 + [Ability Damage Multipliers] ) x (1 + [Debuff for AOE] ) x ( 1 + [Ability Bonus Damage] + [Ability Active Damage] + [Debuff for F/T/M/R] + [Debuff for I/E]) x ( 1 + [Execute Bonus Damage] ) x [# of Hits] x (1 - 1 / (1 + ( (800+240*[Level]) / ( [Target Armor] x ( 1 - [Armor Debuff] ) x ( 1 - [Armor Penetration] ) ) ) ) ) x ( 1 + [Alacrity %]) / [Time Averaged Usage] I meant for this post to be more of an informative post on the new augmentation options. That is why it is light on the explanation behind the dps numbers and heavier on just showing what happens with each choice. Edited October 23, 2015 by Goblin_Lackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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