So the old one was deleted and I can't understand for the life of me why. Quite a few people are asking questions, which means this did stick in some peoples' heads.

 

Back to what we were saying: The Imps own this server. No doubt about it. A lot of rerolled Imp when things were hard and we got frustrated, and some just never played Pub. But seriously the entire server is basically Imp on Imp action and it is definitely time to bring the Republic back. I'm all for it, and I'm curious to see who is serious about putting the fear back in some Imps?

 

NOTE: Delete and I'll make it again, I've always felt strongly about this and Bigglesworth had the right idea to bring it here.

Edited June 26, 2014 by VVhistIer

I'm not sure why it got deleted, did it become a bashing thread or something? I only read the first couple pages and it didn't seem like anything they would delete?

I ran some games on my Bolstered Vanguard last night for fun and had some good games. Still need to get a set mailed over though.

Possibly when it got to accusations (and admissions) of exploiting, which I hope stay out of this one.

Thanks for putting this up. Beat me to it yesterday. I was actually quite shocked that Bioware seemingly deleted/removed my original thread. The minor posts on exploiting hardly warranted the response and personally I thought it was a very positive thing, as did many of you.

 

Regardless, what BW does means very little. I feel that those that cared, needed to care or needed to see the original thread have done so; multiple times. Word is out what the server popuation is trying to achieve, so the loss of the original thread is irrelevent.

First match yesterday was rep vs rep. The word is out. It's up to the community to make something of it though.

I've been here about a week and there are some issues that I see on both sides, however they are more glaring on the pub side. I see many more rep players just there for their "relics", and many more that will pvp without pvp gear, there is also a learning curve that I have seen on both sides, when someone asks for a "peel" in say the alderaan map that doesn't mean run to the node and try to cap also, that means run about halfway between the node and the back wall of mid to slow or cc or intercept players attempting to stop the cap. Imps seem to have more premades in general which is about par for all servers except harbinger I reckon, however their premades are usually more "politically" correct with a tank, an op healer "they are still the best pvp healer", and two dps.

 

I have sat nodes as a jugg, assassin, shadow, guardian, and pt since I've been here, the assassin and shadow I don't mind sitting them, it's kinda what the class is "best" at 1v1 or stalling from stealth til others can arrive, the pt as long as shoulder cannon is up I'm alright with, even though they would be much better suited to be in the mix of things, the one that gets me is the jugg/guardian, they thrive in the midst of the big fight. It's almost like some people believe that holding the node is beneath them or something, it's objective based pvp, don't know why some people think this. I have had several matches where I would call out an inc to the node/pylon and nobody respond, this happens more on the pub side than the imps in my experience.

 

I have marked healers as I sat a node and told the pubs that the healers are marked get on the marked healers And watched as they continue to hit the tank, or dps instead of them, the imps are much more single minded in this they will mercilessly beat the snot out of a marked target. Yeah I'm that assassin/shadow/guardian/jugg that harasses the crap out of you if your a healer. The quote, "so many backstabs" from yolk kind of sums it up, I would get him to about half he would start his rolls/evading, get a guard, never did die in that warzone, but I sure made his life a lot harder for a little bit.

 

Are the pubs worse off at the moment...answer yes, are they beyond hope...absolutely not, however it's going to have to be a concerted and unified effort from some of the pvp guilds for example core to step up and teach others that want to get better, not just run in get their wins for the day and leave, and ya kinda have to remain humble when your doing this or ya come off like a bunch of jerks when you try and "help" people. I've been in their position and on both sides of the factions before, it's not easy to be the guys with the "target" on your back and put that aside to try and make something better.

 

Just what I think

 

Sojorn/Saedist/Stranglar/Seje/Sojo formerly of Maven

Been playing my republic toon a fair bit, solo signing. It's as rough as ever. Get to playing, nerds.

When it comes to pvp, we must specify if its ground or space? While Imperial seem to own the ground combat they don't completely own space combat which is more or less Republic controlled. With the double requestion and credits right now coming from that until 2.8.1 which then I believe switchs to ground combat. I know for me I gave up on ground combat because as a sorcerer healer I became way more focused then normal, maybe because I was ok at it but in my mind I was around a average player. And forget doing arenas because those favor the fast casting operative.

When it comes to pvp, we must specify if its ground or space? While Imperial seem to own the ground combat they don't completely own space combat which is more or less Republic controlled. With the double requestion and credits right now coming from that until 2.8.1 which then I believe switchs to ground combat. I know for me I gave up on ground combat because as a sorcerer healer I became way more focused then normal, maybe because I was ok at it but in my mind I was around a average player. And forget doing arenas because those favor the fast casting operative.

 

Two weeks in and it is still unclear to you whether we are talking about space or ground PvP?

When it comes to pvp, we must specify if its ground or space? While Imperial seem to own the ground combat they don't completely own space combat which is more or less Republic controlled. With the double requestion and credits right now coming from that until 2.8.1 which then I believe switchs to ground combat. I know for me I gave up on ground combat because as a sorcerer healer I became way more focused then normal, maybe because I was ok at it but in my mind I was around a average player. And forget doing arenas because those favor the fast casting operative.

 

I remember focusing you, because you were raging and insulting me. It's possible I could be mistaking you for someone else though.

 

Also, yes, it's "ground PvP" that has the major player balance issue. I'm clueless in regards to Space PvP, did two or three of them the day it was released and that was it.

I had an arena match where it was me (dps) and 3 healers vs a team with 2 healers a tank and 1 dps.

 

These 3 terrible healers could not/would not heal me... the entire time I spent kiting and healing myself and dying first because the 1 dps on the other team was too much for them apparently.

 

There is no hope for pubs on this server.

Edited June 29, 2014 by ace_boogie

I had an arena match where it was me (dps) and 3 healers vs a team with 2 healers a tank and 1 dps.

 

These 3 terrible healers could not/would not heal me... the entire time I spent kiting and healing myself and dying first because the 1 dps on the team was too much for them apparently.

 

There is no hope for pubs on this server.

 

There are a LOT of bad healers on rep side. Ran on my VG for pretty much the whole day with a few buddies and we dragged teams kicking and screaming, dragging their feet. But before I got a friend healing, the pug healers on rep side are horrid. lol I knew that going in because I've seen them enough on Imp side, but man. That is painful. x.x

Part of the problem is you have tanks and healers who think simply casting heals or taking damage is the sole extent of their responsibility.

 

Had a Huttball earlier where we could never actually get the ball or stop it because we had 4 healers on our team and none of them refused to do anything but heal at mid. Yeah, you're not going to do damage like a DPS, but you can still help to stop the ball, CC people, knock them in the pit, etc etc etc. All they cared about was camping mid and padding their healing numbers... so somehow, we held mid the whole game but never touched the ball (because the other team would just run in, stun those of us that actually were playing objectives, and ignored our healers spamming heals on full health teammates).

 

If you're healing solely to heal or tanking solely to take more damage, that's simply not enough. You have to be able to use attacks when the situation warrants it, cc things, do a proper peel rather than just stand next to your guarded target..... this is how you win games.

 

EDIT: btw, I've tried to stay out of this whole republic vs empire thing, but I'll say my peace. It has NOTHING to do with the faction, repeat, NOTHING. At times more good players queue on the Imperial side, true, but that's only true at times. The true issue is premade vs pug/solo queue, and its been that way since day one, and will continue to be that way.

 

You get in a good premade, and get paired with 4 competent teammates, you will win 90+% of your games. You solo queue, and on the faction without many premades running at that time, you will lose 90+% of your games. It has always been that way, it will always be that way, because there's always going to be a lot of crappy players that drag teams down. At the same time, those crappy players make queues pop, so there's nothing you can do about it.

Edited June 30, 2014 by wadecounty

There are a LOT of bad healers on rep side. Ran on my VG for pretty much the whole day with a few buddies and we dragged teams kicking and screaming, dragging their feet. But before I got a friend healing, the pug healers on rep side are horrid. lol I knew that going in because I've seen them enough on Imp side, but man. That is painful. x.x

 

You forgot to mention tank... Tanks with 0 protection flood the ground... So basically I myself now begin to play tank even if I really like to stab some butts, and I refuse to q 55 unless I have certain decent healers around... As to dps... lol, pub dps keeps refresh my knowledge about how bad it could be. There is no worst dps, there is only even worse one than the current record holder...

 

There are great guys around, but not as many as imps side.

You forgot to mention tank... Tanks with 0 protection flood the ground...

 

There are great guys around, but not as many as imps side.

 

 

Representing the elite who still (possibly through ignorance) choose to shadow/assassin tank in PvP, this is very true. If a shadow/assassin can out tank any of the other tanks, there are only 3 possibilities.

 

1.) The other tank is inexperienced (Against Rep tanks, this is the most likely scenario)

2.) DPS cant lay down the deeps and focus fire (Again, Rep side this happens all the time)

3.) The other tank has no healer (Again, another flaw of Rep side)

 

Tanking is an art form. Amongst the Republic faction....we dont have the artists.

Well when it comes to ground combat, I gave up on that back in early Decemeber. I gave it a whirl right before the end of season 1 for a couple hours and it was definately something that doesn't work if your computer is half the problem. Why I stopped queing for it because I didn't want to be the cause of my team losing matchs. That and I play a sorcerer healer seemed like a handicap for ranked so I stopped playing all together. What would solve the problem I think for both PvP ground and PvP space is if every player that was qued thrown into a pool and assigned a team based on the following.

 

1 Imperial group and 1 Republic group que, and equal amount of solo players then standard pvp commenses.

1 Imperial group and 1 Republic group que, if more Imperials in que they get assigned to both teams.

1 Imperial group and 1 Republic group que, if more Republic in que they get assigned to both teams.

2 Imperial groups que, 1 gets assigned to each side and rest of team is filled from solos.

2 Imperial groups and 2 Republic groups que, then standard pvp commenses.

2 Republic groups que, 1 gets assigned to each side and rest of team is filled from solos.

 

This would make for faster que times for everyone, and now it's more about player skill then oh lord which random team am I going to get stuck with this time to lose with.

I think I've done Ground PvP on exactly one character across my Legacy on TEH. It just didn't take for me.

 

For one, I'm not a big fan of being as big a jerk as I possibly can be in order to win. While that may end me up with a label like 'RP-PvE care bear extraordinaire', I find that the sting of such nomenclature comes off when I look at how many others on TEH seem to have the exact same mindset. Maybe it's the group I hang out with, but Republic players on Ebon Hawk just don't seem to have the ruthlessness required to dominate PvP.

 

Which is, in part, why they seem to excel instead at GSF. GSF does work when a pilot takes a ruthless tack, but the community since its formation has pretty much instead focused on making it accessible to new players, conducting themselves with a spirit of fair play, and mostly pursuing team victory over personal achievement.

 

Plus, I have some theories about the association between an in-game heroic avatar that took time to 'get exactly right' with the player's personal self-image, and how seeing that self-avatar get killed over and over again and not being able to fight back in a meaningful way could be potentially traumatic...but that's for another thread.

 

Aaanyway, back on topic, my two cents on the matter is that the GSF community seems to have taken a very different path from the Ground PvP community*, and this may be a result. Regardless of faction, it's up to elder players of either side to put on the kid gloves if they want less-initiated players to explore their venue, find something they enjoy about it, and invest the effort into pursuing it.

 

Saving Republic PvP may mean you investing the effort to not crush the other team as hard as you know you probably could...and might also enjoy doing.

 

* - At the time of this posting, it has not escaped my notice that Impside GSF is taking some ugly hits from a more committed Republic player base. The same advice posited here also applies, in fact, should apply more to GSF players, precisely because of the more chivalrous mindset I used as an example in this very thread. Throttle back, guys. We want folks to stay in.

The true issue is premade vs pug/solo queue, and its been that way since day one, and will continue to be that way.

 

You get in a good premade, and get paired with 4 competent teammates, you will win 90+% of your games. You solo queue, and on the faction without many premades running at that time, you will lose 90+% of your games. It has always been that way, it will always be that way, because there's always going to be a lot of crappy players that drag teams down. At the same time, those crappy players make queues pop, so there's nothing you can do about it.

 

First, don't classify a other players as crappy players. Everyone's got potential and people need time to tap into their potential and practice.

 

Second, it's not premade's fault. We have a perfect example of separating premade queue and solo queue, it's called ranked match making. That certainly facilitated ranked warzones.

 

You forgot to mention tank... Tanks with 0 protection flood the ground... So basically I myself now begin to play tank even if I really like to stab some butts, and I refuse to q 55 unless I have certain decent healers around... As to dps... lol, pub dps keeps refresh my knowledge about how bad it could be. There is no worst dps, there is only even worse one than the current record holder...

 

Actually queuing without a healer can be fun sometimes because you are under the pressure to kill everybody before you run out of cool downs.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Azurestone

I had an arena match where it was me (dps) and 3 healers vs a team with 2 healers a tank and 1 dps.

 

These 3 terrible healers could not/would not heal me... the entire time I spent kiting and healing myself and dying first because the 1 dps on the other team was too much for them apparently.

 

There is no hope for pubs on this server.

 

2 days later, and I still can't believe this happened. 3 of them... The only responsibility they have in an arena is healing. And they wouldn't or for some reason couldn't do it.

 

And it's not like they were dpsing either. I just don't get it. At the very worst it should've went to poison in all 3 rounds, but we never even made it to poison, let alone to a 3rd round.

Edited June 30, 2014 by ace_boogie

Actually queuing without a healer can be fun sometimes because you are under the pressure to kill everybody before you run out of cool downs.

 

This is great!! Too bad shadow only has two that are worth anything. Three if you throw in stealth out & heal.

First, don't classify a other players as crappy players. Everyone's got potential and people need time to tap into their potential and practice.

 

Second, it's not premade's fault. We have a perfect example of separating premade queue and solo queue, it's called ranked match making. That certainly facilitated ranked warzones.

 

 

First, I'm being a realist. OK, instead of crappy, we can use skilled and lesser skilled. Regardless, it is what it is. Potential or not, some players will never reach that potential, but they still queue and make queues pop and I'd never begrudge them for it because that's how we keep our population going.

 

Second, I never insinuated that it was anyone's "fault". Its just a fact of what the situation is. And ranked would work fine if there were a large enough player base that similarly skilled players and groups could be matched up with each other, but that simply isn't the case with this game, and never will be unless cross server queues are added (they likely never will).

I think it's totally within the means of this server's PvPers to save and significantly improve republic PvP. Frankly the biggest issue isn't premades, or too many imperials, though lopsided queuing can be an issue, it's a lack of competence or ability that has come to be expected from 55s and even 30-54.

 

I believe that if we make a concentrated effort to spread knowhow, and give advice as well as pub side pvping classes then the swell of republic scrubs will drop considerably. Replaced with capable pvpers.

I think I've done Ground PvP on exactly one character across my Legacy on TEH. It just didn't take for me.

 

For one, I'm not a big fan of being as big a jerk as I possibly can be in order to win. While that may end me up with a label like 'RP-PvE care bear extraordinaire', I find that the sting of such nomenclature comes off when I look at how many others on TEH seem to have the exact same mindset. Maybe it's the group I hang out with, but Republic players on Ebon Hawk just don't seem to have the ruthlessness required to dominate PvP.

 

Which is, in part, why they seem to excel instead at GSF. GSF does work when a pilot takes a ruthless tack, but the community since its formation has pretty much instead focused on making it accessible to new players, conducting themselves with a spirit of fair play, and mostly pursuing team victory over personal achievement.

 

Plus, I have some theories about the association between an in-game heroic avatar that took time to 'get exactly right' with the player's personal self-image, and how seeing that self-avatar get killed over and over again and not being able to fight back in a meaningful way could be potentially traumatic...but that's for another thread.

 

Aaanyway, back on topic, my two cents on the matter is that the GSF community seems to have taken a very different path from the Ground PvP community*, and this may be a result. Regardless of faction, it's up to elder players of either side to put on the kid gloves if they want less-initiated players to explore their venue, find something they enjoy about it, and invest the effort into pursuing it.

 

Saving Republic PvP may mean you investing the effort to not crush the other team as hard as you know you probably could...and might also enjoy doing.

 

* - At the time of this posting, it has not escaped my notice that Impside GSF is taking some ugly hits from a more committed Republic player base. The same advice posited here also applies, in fact, should apply more to GSF players, precisely because of the more chivalrous mindset I used as an example in this very thread. Throttle back, guys. We want folks to stay in.

 

I had to read this post a few times to really try and digest what you're trying to say. After a while I sort of rested on a couple of things.

 

The first is that people don't want to be mean, and that people don't like people being mean to them. The second is that people especially don't like people being mean to them after they've spent a good deal of time getting their look just right before they head into a warzone. The third is that people should still want to win but should be nice about how they go about doing it.

 

I hate to sound trite, but are you being serious?

 

To the first point, PvP isn't about being mean. It's about Teamwork. It's working together to accomplish the objectives of the warzone in a manner which produces a favorable outcome for your team. You should understand this coming from GSF and frankly I can argue that there's more "mean people" in GSF than the ground game but that's probably a matter of opinion. That said, there's nothing ruthless about it. PvP, by it's very competitive nature, is prone to high emotions. Some people do indeed take losing way too seriously. Anyone who PvPs should expect one or two of those in each match. The difference is how you let it affect you. In the grand scheme of things though, the winning team is usually the one that works together the best. I've had my fair share of matches where my entire team was at the bottom of the barrel in kills and medals, and yet still won.

 

I'm not sure how to take the second point. I personally try to create a distinctive look for Triggle that people will recognize beyond the name and I know my wife is the same way with her toons. But that's purely for visual recognition and in reality it means little during the course of a battle. Mostly I just see names. And fire. Lots of fire. But you seem to insinuate that people are overtly attached to their toon, even to the point of it being a physical extension of themselves, and that putting themselves into harms way via PvP has catastrophic affects on them. Well, honestly, if that's the case then they probably have some things they need to work through in the real world and PvP in SWTOR should be the furthest thing from their mind.

 

As to the third point, when it comes to PvP you have to want to get better. The main driver behind this is seeing other people play who are better than you and wanting to meet or exceed them. I cut my teeth on Game Genie back on Sanctum of the Exalted. They were so far ahead of everyone else in terms of teamwork that it forced the Imperials to either get better or keep getting pounded. Back when Fallen Order was more than just Vind're and myself, we spent a lot of time banging our heads against the Game Genie wall and working hard to get better so that we could give them a run for their money. I want to say that before the Great Server Merge of 2012 that we were one of their tougher draws in a match, but I will say that playing against them made us better players.

 

Sometimes you have to suffer the blowout loss. It puts things into perspective and allows you the chance to correct mistakes. If you take a bad loss and just rage about it, then you're doing yourself a disservice. Becoming a better player is as much about learning from others as examining yourself to see where you need improvement. I still take cues from other people, I still want to learn, and I still want to get better.

I think it's totally within the means of this server's PvPers to save and significantly improve republic PvP. Frankly the biggest issue isn't premades, or too many imperials, though lopsided queuing can be an issue, it's a lack of competence or ability that has come to be expected from 55s and even 30-54.

 

I believe that if we make a concentrated effort to spread knowhow, and give advice as well as pub side pvping classes then the swell of republic scrubs will drop considerably. Replaced with capable pvpers.

 

I was away for the weekend celebrating Canadas birthday; got back into action for a bit last night. I had some great matches at 55 and then popped down to midbie for a bit. There were enough people queuinmidbies. Pubside that there were actually 2 full groups getting pops. I was queuing solo. And have no idea if there were any groups in there. I didn't recognize any names and only a couple of tags but it was really interesting. If I popped with 1 group, we absolutely pummeled the Imps we came up against and if I popped with the other group, we got obliterated. So I can agree with what Nezumi is saying here.

 

I will also echo What Triggle was saying. You are only going to get better at this by playing against people that are better than you. I do not believe in"taking it easy" on anyone. If on the receiving end of one of those disaster WZs, stay and take your beating and try to take something away from it. If you are on the team dishing it out, don't be satisfied with holding your 2 nodes. Go for the three cap every time.