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The Empire/Republic ships in TOR are wrong

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Empire/Republic ships in TOR are wrong

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
04.25.2012 , 03:02 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by edusblaze View Post
Emperor Palpatine based the Imperial Star Destroyers off the Galactic Republic's Venator class ships. The Galactic Republic probably got the triangular designs from when they defeated the Sith Empire. As for the rebels, they didn't use Kuat Drive Yards; they used Mon Calamari shipyards.

This is the Venator
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Venat...Star_Destroyer
IMO they get the designs on the Voidstar
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DeadlyScythe
04.25.2012 , 03:19 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
Yup.

Kuat Drive Yards Missile Magazine
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don't forget the BH starship its a KDY d-5 mantis patrol crraft ( KDY - kuat drive yard)
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VanderII's Avatar


VanderII
04.25.2012 , 05:06 AM | #53
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Kaisernick's Avatar


Kaisernick
04.25.2012 , 07:22 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Nireves View Post
But the ships that the Emperor has were the ships of the Republic left over from or built as a result of the clone wars.

Does that mean that the Jedi that commissioned the clone army and had those tall aliens build the fleet was a Sith?

And what did the Rebels do, dig up 3000 year old ships or build exact copies of 3000 year old ships
remmember the jedi order had no idea the army exsisted and the ships were made by kuyat drive yards its possible that palpatine made them design them as an homage to the sith i mean after all the sith ruleing the galixy was his plan.

Rhadamanthine's Avatar


Rhadamanthine
04.25.2012 , 09:37 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Thril View Post
Ships are essentially like cars. There are only so many designs that actually work or people want. The Republic even had its own "Proto-Stardestroyer" as wookiepedia puts it but after its loss and the loss of the Ravager they abandoned the design for more reliable designs like the Thranta and Hammerhead class ships. As for the Republic during the clone wars its is never really told (as far as I've heard or read) why the Republic needed a new "Grand Fleet" but Rothana industries is what brought the Acclamator into play which evolved into the Venator and so forth.
^ This. An easy explanation for the wedge shaped ships in KOTOR? Here you go:

The Republic has just had the huge war with Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma (the ships also looked different in those comics). So people are going over their old designs, finding faults with them, and thinking what needs to be improved for better combat performance. With the first big conflict in awhile, all those competing designs get refined and naval design bureaus begin brainstorming to make 'their' design the best. From this you get the Kuat/etc wedge ships, the Inexpugnable class command ship (see the KOTOR comic and battle of Serroco), and others.

In come the Mandalorians. You see a bunch of competing ship designs, with later in the war the presumably more efficient wedge shaped warships like the Leviathan and Ravager eventually winning out. The better ships go with Revan to the meat grinder battles above Malachor V and elsewhere, and win. They basically become 'his' fleet.

Revan and Malak get zapped by the Emperor, come back and use the most efficient, lethal designs as the basic template for their fleets. Why not copy a winner? They presumably also neutralize or capture the yards that built these vessels (it's never said one way or the other, but Revan was heavily billed as a military genius) to deny their use to the Republic. All the stuff in the KOTORs happens.

The Sith Emperor (or someone in a position to make the relevant decisions) looks at these ships they had some knowledge of and goes 'sure use this, it looks aggressive, the design places a premium on offensive firepower and allows for extreme concentration of firepower from massed squadrons.' Or maybe they think of them themselves, the merits are pretty obvious whether you love the Dark Side or not. Again, why not choose a winner?

Meanwhile, the Republic, sick of war after all of those conflicts has a bunch of politically motivated purging going on, and one 'relic' of the long era of war that gets flushed is the aggressive looking wedge shaped designs. The Republic 'goes back to normal' as hard as it can and tries to get past the war, and those ships are one big, obvious symbol of it. To people who got bombarded and terrorized by Leviathans and Ravagers, it's not reassuring to see one come into your system on patrol. It brings back memories of Taris/Telos/others. The Republic politicians, if nothing else experienced in how to keep a seesaw body politic stable, see this and axe further production of the designs. They get quietly retired and forgotten about.

This has precedence in the EU as well. Somewhere in the post-Endor EU, Mon Mothma or someone else said the New Republic wasn't going to produce Executor class command ships (Super Star Destroyers), because they were such an obvious symbol of Imperial dominion that it would be a terrible, terrible PR move for the NR to themselves make them. The NR quietly repaired and used the ones they captured from the post-Imperial warlords (like the Guardian and Lusankya), but they themselves never actually built them despite the obvious design superiority they represented. The symbolism itself was just too politically charged, and after the polarizing Galactic Civil War it was too risky to capitalize on having Fondor and Kuat back in the fold by making them, since the former Rebels could then be branded as sellouts and power mongers who just wanted galactic control for themselves.

I don't really have a problem with the wedge ships being around earlier, because it really is an optimal design for specific warmaking purposes, and there's no reason the Republic wouldn't trot them out once the gloves had come off in a conflict and they decided to stop being politically expedient. Meanwhile in times of peace, the Republic, which has always had problems with allegations of corruption and strong arming from various people who might become separatists, would use less 'aggressive' looking designs in order to placate people and keep them at ease with their image. It really doesn't take that long for a galactic economy to start producing ships, see the Clone Wars and how there were probably tens of thousands (low end estimate there) Venators flying around the galaxy very quickly. Five years in the Mando Wars is plenty for the Republic to produce a good amount of wedges, and of course they would end up under Revan's command since he's the one who actually got results in the war and everyone trusted him except the mainstream Jedi. Why not send him the best ships? After all, everyone loves a winner.

This explanation also doesn't need weird things like the Sith brainwashing people to make ships with no other explanation, since that might've tipped the other Jedi at the time off to the existence of some huge conspiracy manipulating things behind the scenes, and I doubt the Sith Emperor wanted that.


Edit: Oh, and as to why the Republic isn't using wedge ships in SWTOR...easy, two things come to mind. Either the yards with the design expertise and experience in building them before have been neutralized, or it's just a matter of political expediency, which the Republic is very good at doing. This has actually happened in RL. In WW2, the Soviets had this great tank, the T-34. Germany had nothing to equal it in 1941 (they learned this the hard way), and their tank designers wanted to simply copy its design features (slanted armor, etc) wholesale for a Germanized version of it. This didn't happen, because according to Hitler it looked 'too Russian', and would have been a big slight to the myth of Aryan superiority his party created, and a morale hit for the Wehrmacht (German army) to use a knockoff of the same design that was kicking the crap out of them. So instead, it got heavily modified, which took longer to get it into production and onto the battlefield, and we got the infamous Panther tank.

While that example isn't exactly analogous (Stalin's USSR vs Hitler's Germany were two totalitarian regimes driven by the idea of absolute supremacy of ideology and/or race, which is not what the Republic at least is), it is accurate in one respect: the two sides were in a quintessentially existential conflict that would only see one left standing, just like the Sith Empire and Republic now. And in those, you have to be very careful about what you do that looks like the other guy, because of the atmosphere of 'us vs the other' that exists. Those aren't just wars of territory and ambition, they're wars of values and ideals.

Belyle's Avatar


Belyle
09.01.2014 , 08:45 AM | #56
one more thing, I was on my sith assasin, he said "die rebel scum"

FercPolo's Avatar


FercPolo
09.08.2014 , 06:19 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Nireves View Post
But the ships that the Emperor has were the ships of the Republic left over from or built as a result of the clone wars.

Does that mean that the Jedi that commissioned the clone army and had those tall aliens build the fleet was a Sith?

And what did the Rebels do, dig up 3000 year old ships or build exact copies of 3000 year old ships

They weren't leftovers though. Kuat Drive Yards pumps out Imperial Class Star Destroyers on the regular and then stepped up to the Imperial II Class. They are new designs. Most likely, knowing that Kuat Drive Yards has been around all this time, it's a company branding thing. It's also the best shape to make a ship if you want to direct all your firepower into the forward arc.

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Kaprua
09.08.2014 , 09:15 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Nireves View Post
And what did the Rebels do, dig up 3000 year old ships or build exact copies of 3000 year old ships
Does this look like anything the Republic is using now? =P
http://www.filmdivider.com/wp-conten...ebel-fleet.jpg

If the books and comics that take place after the very long era SWTOR takes place in is to be true, there will be a massive dark age in the galaxy, i.e. everything staying stagnate and no progress, The Republic shrinks to a very small size, and then at the end of that period grows and inherits new planets and areas, some of them were perhaps old imperial worlds, and if you notice in the movies The Republic uses the Imperial Symbol well before Palpatine becomes Chancellor.

The SWTOR era Republic capitol ships look more like the ships the Separatist were using, then the Rebel Alliances mismatching ships.

Marius_Xerxes's Avatar


Marius_Xerxes
09.09.2014 , 02:46 PM | #59
Holy thread necro batman.

Kaisernick's Avatar


Kaisernick
09.09.2014 , 04:15 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Nireves View Post
But the ships that the Emperor has were the ships of the Republic left over from or built as a result of the clone wars.

Does that mean that the Jedi that commissioned the clone army and had those tall aliens build the fleet was a Sith?

And what did the Rebels do, dig up 3000 year old ships or build exact copies of 3000 year old ships
the jedi didn't commission the clones or the ships, it was Doku