Playing pvp ranked the other night, I kept getting kicked every time I died. Is this supposed to be ok? I feel like it is a bully tactic to say "You suck! Stay out!". I want to practice and get better at this game I pay tons of money for. Should I record names and report like I have been?

Ranked is very toxic, most matches are usually made up of the same players running the fotm classes and kicking anyone that dies so they can keep their epeen streak going, best thing to do is either switch to a fotm class and learn it or just stick to regs/group ranked to avoid them.

Playing pvp ranked the other night, I kept getting kicked every time I died. Is this supposed to be ok? I feel like it is a bully tactic to say "You suck! Stay out!". I want to practice and get better at this game I pay tons of money for. Should I record names and report like I have been?

Vote kick is a game feature so your reports means nothing. If you do really bad - doing both no dps AND dying fast it means you should not queue solo ranked. Same is happening in flash points - if one guy is not doing his role or doing it too bad so others can't kill boss he gets kicked by others.

However, abuse of vote kick must be reported. When you actually doing good yet your team mates kick you just for fun or because they personally hate you this is vote kick abusing and must be punished

Just initiate a vote kick on a random team member, which prevents you from being vote kicked until that vote kick has failed. And other teammates are not alerted when you initiate a vote kick.

I didn't know that was possible, thanks for the info. Unfortunately, if people use that technique the whole vote kicking process will just waste even more time than it already does. People should be able to just accept losses and move on, rather than waste stupid amounts of time to kick someone and give them a measly 5 minute lockout.

And that's not to mention the ethical implications. People will kick before they even try offering advice or telling the player not to queue. I try to reason with people that just want to kick all the time, often to no avail. It wasn't this bad the last two seasons.

It's absolutely not "legal" to vote kick someone, even from PvE things. The Rules of Conduct, in my opinion, are pretty clear on that in a couple places.

From: https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

...you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

...

Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted.

...

Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules

Vote kicking definitely falls under the "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR" part.

Obviously that can be taken to the extreme. Killing my toon in a PvP match is "unwanted" by me, after all. But bioware set the bar for entering ranked matches at, what, valor 25 (or something low)? That's it. And the panel where you queue for ranked says, "Test your mettle against teams of four players in Arena matches". It doesn't say, "queue up for ranked only if you are a master of your class and only 5 other people on your server have a chance of 1v1'ing you!". So I think it's pretty clear that bioware intended ranked to be for everyone. It's a few of the *players* who decided to try to reserved ranked for themselves. Which, to me, definitely smacks of the bully on the playground telling the little kids, "this is our spot, you have to leave".

That said, it is commonly accepted that you should be "ready for ranked", which most people take to mean that you should know your class really well, and be able to survive at least a bit if focused. It could be argued that queuing for ranked when you are not really ready also falls under the, "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR", although that's obviously a slippery slope.

What is an appropriate response to someone who is "bad" seems to be a matter of debate (as JMA, in a post above this, shows). But you should report vote kicking, as apparently bioware does actually take action against this sometimes. They won't tell you if they did or not, but I've heard anecdotally that they've disciplined some people.

It's absolutely not "legal" to vote kick someone, even from PvE things. The Rules of Conduct, in my opinion, are pretty clear on that in a couple places.

It's definitely abused a lot, but it wouldn't be a feature if it was always illegal. I will vote kick someone in ranked in a few situations.

1. The player is actually trying to throw the game, for whatever reason.

2. The player is getting globaled in multiple games in a row (and I mean actually globaled, not just playing badly). At that point, people have tried telling the person that they're not ready for ranked and they're ruining games for everyone else. This is very rare.

3. The player in 270 gear getting destroyed and contributing nothing is told "hey, you should get a full set bonus and tactical and learn your class before queueing ranked," and they respond "LOL you can't tell me how to play, I pay a sub, yall ranked players are so toxic, i'm going to keep queueing." That person is basically a combination of 1. and 2. Ranked is not a place for you to come in and **** around. If you have that kind of disregard for your fellow players, you don't belong in ranked.

To me, unacceptable kicking is when:

1. The player is just perceived as bad.

2. The player is not liked by his teammates for whatever reason.

3. The player is clearly new and in one of their first ranked games.

Those kind of kicks are happening way too often.

But you should report vote kicking, as apparently bioware does actually take action against this sometimes. They won't tell you if they did or not, but I've heard anecdotally that they've disciplined some people.

Yeah, I don't know if you know this but the person that kicked you way back when got permanently banned (either for toxicity or wintrading or some other cheating, no one knows for sure). Though he is back on a new account. I'm assuming ban evasion is itself bannable so I'm surprised he's lasted this long.

You know, its kinda funny.

You talked about toxicity being the biggest issue in ranked, and people come out of the woodwork to tell you how its not really that bad, or its better than it used to be, then you continuously read stuff like this.

Find that mirror kids, take a good long look... the reason more people dont take part in ranked, is this kind of silliness.

It's definitely abused a lot, but it wouldn't be a feature if it was always illegal. I will vote kick someone in ranked in a few situations.

 

1. The player is actually trying to throw the game, for whatever reason.

2. The player is getting globaled in multiple games in a row (and I mean actually globaled, not just playing badly). At that point, people have tried telling the person that they're not ready for ranked and they're ruining games for everyone else. This is very rare.

3. The player in 270 gear getting destroyed and contributing nothing is told "hey, you should get a full set bonus and tactical and learn your class before queueing ranked," and they respond "LOL you can't tell me how to play, I pay a sub, yall ranked players are so toxic, i'm going to keep queueing." That person is basically a combination of 1. and 2. Ranked is not a place for you to come in and **** around. If you have that kind of disregard for your fellow players, you don't belong in ranked.

 

To me, unacceptable kicking is when:

 

1. The player is just perceived as bad.

2. The player is not liked by his teammates for whatever reason.

3. The player is clearly new and in one of their first ranked games.

 

Those kind of kicks are happening way too often.

I actually agree with this 100%, which might sound odd given my first post. But my first post was mostly about "is it actually against the rules". I think, personally, the problems happen when both sides start digging in on their respective positions, and no one stops to be reasonable about it. You shouldn't queue for ranked if after a match or two it's pretty clear that you are completely outclassed there, and also people shouldn't use vote kick to get rid of others for the "bad" reasons you listed. In my opinion, it all comes down to, have some respect for your fellow players, even the ones you don't know.

Yeah, I don't know if you know this but the person that kicked you way back when got permanently banned (either for toxicity or wintrading or some other cheating, no one knows for sure). Though he is back on a new account. I'm assuming ban evasion is itself bannable so I'm surprised he's lasted this long.

Wow. I knew you said he had some action taken against him. I didn't know bioware actually went so far as to perma-ban. If he was constantly abusing vote kick, or otherwise inappropriately harassing people, then I think he deserved it. I mean, I was willing to accept that my situation was just a one-off (or a few-off), and I know I overreacted quite a bit , but yeah... (And yes, somewhere in those rules of conduct it also says it's "illegal" to make another account to get around bans in game, and also forum posting bans. )

You know, its kinda funny.

You talked about toxicity being the biggest issue in ranked, and people come out of the woodwork to tell you how its not really that bad, or its better than it used to be, then you continuously read stuff like this.

Find that mirror kids, take a good long look... the reason more people dont take part in ranked, is this kind of silliness.

Many of my "ranked isn't that toxic" posts were during seasons 10 and 11, when that was true. Ranked still isn't that toxic overall, except the vote kicking is out of control, I won't deny that. I do all I can to stop it, but there's only so much I can do.

The same losers that think tank tunneling is wrong (and get so triggered by it they throw over it) are the ones vote kicking people. Many of those people happily associate with wintraders, and a lot of them are bigots to boot. Sadly it's nearly impossible to reason with such people.

With all that being said, those people are still a small minority in ranked overall.

It's absolutely not "legal" to vote kick someone, even from PvE things. The Rules of Conduct, in my opinion, are pretty clear on that in a couple places.

 

From: https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

 

 

Vote kicking definitely falls under the "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR" part.

 

Obviously that can be taken to the extreme. Killing my toon in a PvP match is "unwanted" by me, after all. But bioware set the bar for entering ranked matches at, what, valor 25 (or something low)? That's it. And the panel where you queue for ranked says, "Test your mettle against teams of four players in Arena matches". It doesn't say, "queue up for ranked only if you are a master of your class and only 5 other people on your server have a chance of 1v1'ing you!". So I think it's pretty clear that bioware intended ranked to be for everyone. It's a few of the *players* who decided to try to reserved ranked for themselves. Which, to me, definitely smacks of the bully on the playground telling the little kids, "this is our spot, you have to leave".

 

That said, it is commonly accepted that you should be "ready for ranked", which most people take to mean that you should know your class really well, and be able to survive at least a bit if focused. It could be argued that queuing for ranked when you are not really ready also falls under the, "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR", although that's obviously a slippery slope.

 

What is an appropriate response to someone who is "bad" seems to be a matter of debate (as JMA, in a post above this, shows). But you should report vote kicking, as apparently bioware does actually take action against this sometimes. They won't tell you if they did or not, but I've heard anecdotally that they've disciplined some people.

If it was against rulles Vote kick would not even exist as an in-game feature kek. Plus the rules you quoted can be used against those who play really bad in ranked or doing it for purpose (wintraders etc). Since a guy who does pretty much nothing (doing less than 4k dps and dying with 200k dmg taken) makes his team experience ruined, causes unwanted result same as the rule you posted says. Ranked is for tryharding and if someone queues it for doing super low stats he ruins the game which means that this person Does "something that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic"

Plus the rules you quoted can be used against those who play really bad in ranked or doing it for purpose (wintraders etc).

Gosh, if only I had said that. Oh wait...

That said, it is commonly accepted that you should be "ready for ranked", which most people take to mean that you should know your class really well, and be able to survive at least a bit if focused. It could be argued that queuing for ranked when you are not really ready also falls under the, "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR", although that's obviously a slippery slope.

Gosh, if only I had said that. Oh wait...

Well, to be fair you did write that there statement in a much more elaborate fashion; maybe that confused him.

Abuse of the vote kick is 100% against the rules. Now whether support does anything about it is an entirely different story. In this game? Its unlikely anything will happen, which is a shame.

It could be argued that queuing for ranked when you are not really ready also falls under the, "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR", although that's obviously a slippery slope.

LMAO no it can not.

Yeah, I don't know if you know this but the person that kicked you way back when got permanently banned (either for toxicity or wintrading or some other cheating, no one knows for sure).

He was perma banned for anti-Semitism and hate speech in gen chat.

Abuse of the vote kick is 100% against the rules.

Show us the exact language in the terms of service where it says "abuse of vote kicking is against the rules."

He was perma banned for anti-Semitism and hate speech in gen chat.

That's his story. Others have made different claims.

Show us the exact language in the terms of service where it says "abuse of vote kicking is against the rules."

Vote-kick abusing falls under player griefing.

If it’s done within reason (ex. Wintrading, AFK, trolling). However, being bad at the game does not count.

That's his story. Others have made different claims.

What was others claims?

What was others claims?

Others claim it was wintrading or some other kind of cheating. Why do you even care though, you don't even know who I'm talking about.

Vote-kick abusing falls under player griefing.

 

If it’s done within reason (ex. Wintrading, AFK, trolling). However, being bad at the game does not count.

See that's your problem. Unfortunately for proponents of the "abusive vote kicking is against TOS" argument, vote kicking is not explicitly listed in any of the "player griefing" sections of the TOS.

The exact language is as follows:

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

 

Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. (See also “Harassment Policy” below.)

 

Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of EA in maintaining the Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Whatever your moral qualms of vote kicking are (of which you have listed them in hundreds of forum posts over the past month), vote kicking as a contractual violation is an extremely tenuous argument. Quite simply, TOS does not say anything specifically about vote kicking, and IMO it is a stretch to apply the vague standards in the "player's griefing" sections to vote kicking.

As someone else stated:

It could be argued that queuing for ranked when you are not really ready also falls under the, "interferes with the ability of other service users to enjoy playing SWTOR", although that's obviously a slippery slope.

IMO this claim is not much different than that of abusive vote kicking. That is not to say that it is a strong one... it is just equally weak.

Vote kick in pvp was designed to kick out afkers. The developers stated this themselves when they added the feature back in 2.x. Its the very reason the vote is cancelled when a player is engaged in combat or earning points defending a node. People only get away with it in rank because they abuse it by waiting till the player is dead or doing it before the round starts.

Its abuse of a feature and interferes with that players ability to play the game. Its completely against the rules and BW themselves have stated as such in past dev posts.

Vote kick in pvp was designed to kick out afkers. The developers stated this themselves when they added the feature back in 2.x. Its the very reason the vote is cancelled when a player is engaged in combat or earning points defending a node.....Its completely against the rules and BW themselves have stated as such in past dev posts.

No quote. No link. No video. No evidence.

You want to talk about technicalities. You want to talk about legalities. You want to talk about contract and terms and conditions. Then show us the proof.

No quote. No link. No video. No evidence.

 

You want to talk about technicalities. You want to talk about legalities. You want to talk about contract and terms and conditions. Then show us the proof.

https://twitter.com/SWTOR/status/176776298709000192?s=20

Or if you don’t trust links then just google “swtor update vote kick” and it’ll come up with the tweet on their official swtor twitter page.

https://twitter.com/SWTOR/status/176776298709000192?s=20

 

Or if you don’t trust links then just google “swtor update vote kick” and it’ll come up with the tweet on their official swtor twitter page.

Sorry but "inactive players" are not only afk players. Afk players are inactive players but those who goes out and dies with 280k dmg taken while doing 1k dps are also inactive. They are nothing, doing so bad that can't be counted as active players.

In addition to this, even if devs provided vote kick for only kicking afk players it doesn't really means players will use it only to kick afk players lol. Humans are not machines or animals we can use things even for not their original purpose without breaking the law. inherent improvements under lease agreements are often used as investment mechanism in my country even though such mechanism wasn't intended to be used in investment sphere AT ALL.

While vote kick isn't prohibited you can't state it is illegal except for abusing of vote kick where vote kick is used just for trolling