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Sexual violence, slavery, and genocide. Just another day in the Empire?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Sexual violence, slavery, and genocide. Just another day in the Empire?

el_pinko_grande's Avatar


el_pinko_grande
02.03.2012 , 03:03 PM | #391
Quote: Originally Posted by Shampoo View Post
The problematically 5th grade level writing in ToR touches on topics from sexual violence to torture, slavery and bigotry without even a bit of intelligent context or commentary.
I haven't read all 30-something pages of this thread, so someone may have touched on this, but you're factually wrong here. There absolutely is context for all of this- we know the Empire loses. When you're playing on the Empire side, you are observing a failed society. I'm not a mind reader, so I can't say exactly where Bioware is going to go with all of this, but I'm nevertheless pretty certain that all of the things you mention are going to be at the forefront of reasons why the Empire loses.

As for the Vette thing, I played a Sith Warrior to 50. I never once shocked or mistreated Vette, nor did I feel like the game was encouraging me to do so. Obviously some people really enjoy that aspect of the game, but that doesn't upset me, because this is a role-playing game. You seem to be arguing that the game offers mechanical benefits for treating her cruelly, but that's not really true. Going Light Side is a perfectly viable option with gear that is exactly as good as the Dark Side stuff. If you choose to go DS, that's on you.

peterpangelo's Avatar


peterpangelo
02.03.2012 , 03:13 PM | #392
I don't really agree fervently with the OP, but there are aspects of his/her argument that I can relate to. The only reason I don't agree is because I'm not out there to censor anyone. However, because of all of that--- sexual abuse, slavery, general crime, I don't play Empire. I know it sounds silly, but when I have to hit the button that says "Yeah, enslave her" (or whatever it is, you know what I mean) it actually makes me feel wrong. I prefer being the guys on the "good" side, even if the good side is flawed and/or corrupt. At least you're (I'm) standing for better ideals.

Now, one thing I feel kinda sad about is the fact that so many people play the empire to get their evil jollies off. It reminds me of an interesting point an old college professor of mine brought up about people who love horror movies. One way to view that culture is that there's a certain evil inside humans that likes to see other humans being dismembered, gored, killed, what have you. Now we know that feeling that way is "bad" so in order to justify such a fancy is wanting the killer to be brutally killed in the end, which is why (according to this idea) the "bad guy" usually dies, often brutally, in the end... that symbolizes us (the audience disturbingly enjoying watching him dismember innocent people) washing our hands clean of any involvement in such behavior.

So I'm not trying to preach anything to anyone... I don't care who you play or why, but it IS an interesting notion that the OP brought up, and I'm fascinated by the psychology behind it... I would like to know why people play these "bad guys" and have fun making such decisions, but still call themselves "good" and say that they are unaffected by such content. However, if I'll ever achieve such an answer, it's *most likely* going to be outside of this forum, lol. But I am interested to see how the trolls attack me here, like they so brutally ripped apart this poor OP, hehe.
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tehjai's Avatar


tehjai
02.03.2012 , 03:21 PM | #393
Quote: Originally Posted by peterpangelo View Post
I don't really agree fervently with the OP, but there are aspects of his/her argument that I can relate to. The only reason I don't agree is because I'm not out there to censor anyone. However, because of all of that--- sexual abuse, slavery, general crime, I don't play Empire. I know it sounds silly, but when I have to hit the button that says "Yeah, enslave her" (or whatever it is, you know what I mean) it actually makes me feel wrong. I prefer being the guys on the "good" side, even if the good side is flawed and/or corrupt. At least you're (I'm) standing for better ideals.

Now, one thing I feel kinda sad about is the fact that so many people play the empire to get their evil jollies off.

<snip>

So I'm not trying to preach anything to anyone... <snip>

I would like to know why people play these "bad guys" and have fun making such decisions, but still call themselves "good" and say that they are unaffected by such content. However, if I'll ever achieve such an answer, it's *most likely* going to be outside of this forum, lol. But I am interested to see how the trolls attack me here, like they so brutally ripped apart this poor OP, hehe.
You are preaching. You're insinuating that people who want to play bad guys have something inherently wrong with them. And you just called anyone who disagrees with the OP's stance a troll. I am neither of these things; I can barely bait a minnow on a hook much less blow up a starship IRL.

Do you want to know why people want to play bad guys? Because, for some people, it's fun to explore and play something that you aren't. It's interesting to explore the seedier side of a fictional universe. Just because my Bounty Hunter likes getting slapped about in the bedroom in RP and she's not above slotting people who are in her way doesn't mean I as the player am any of these things.

There's really not all that much "psychology" behind it; rather, it's the RPG in MMORPG. We're playing a role. We know that this is fiction, and we're media-literate enough to know that these things are okay in the game world, but they're not okay IRL. Anyone who can't make that delineation has a mental issue that was likely already existent. There is no rule that says that when we play an RPG, which is by definition a means of putting ourselves into a world and possibly a role that is not our own, that we must play characters who are of the same moral fibre as ourselves. In fact, for many people, that's boring.

TL;DR version: This game isn't the real world's social justice parade and moral quandary. I want to play pretend.

And just in case anyone still can't wrap their heads around it: WE ARE NOT OUR CHARACTERS. WE ARE NOT OUR CHARACTERS. WE ARE NOT OUR CHARACTERS.
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Sunstarr's Avatar


Sunstarr
02.03.2012 , 03:24 PM | #394
tehjai beat me to it.

Can this thread be closed now? The horse went from a solid to a liquid.

Originally Posted by Shampoo
The problematically 5th grade level writing in ToR touches on topics from sexual violence to torture, slavery and bigotry without even a bit of intelligent context or commentary.


Here..read some lore: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Empire

Then ask yourself again why such "taboo" topics are touched upon. Its there, its lore. Its the Sith Empire.

McVade's Avatar


McVade
02.03.2012 , 03:26 PM | #395
It's a fair read, OP, but I mean, the whole Star Wars universe is dominated by the extreme axis of Good and Evil. They made no apologies for that. The Sith are evil. They exploit people, they hurt people, they harbor nothing but selfishness and contempt.

Why abuse someone who genuinely wants to help you? Because you can. Because it amuses you. Because you want to make them stronger. Their hatred for you gives them strength, focus. Or because you couldn't care less if that person drops dead. There's always another useful tool around the corner you can dominate to do your bidding.

Slavery? Who cares. The weak serve the strong or die. What other use is there for them? If they don't want to be slaves, they can prove their mettle against all odds (very slight spoiler: Sith Inquisitor storyline is all about this). They survive, they'll have your respect... until you find a way to make them serve you, or kill them before they become a threat.

Genocide? Why should you tolerate people living on your planet who do not benefit you? Let them use resources that could be yours? Your strong enough to take it, so you do so. They can either accept that, or they can die. In fact, accepting it isn't enough. They better HELP you carry all their resources back along the way, or you'll kill them because you just want to hear the sounds they make before the die.

That is what it means to be Sith.

If that's not for you, you can always swim against the tide (Light side Sith yields interesting twists)... or roll a Republic character, who generally follow the Mass Effect ethos. You're a good character, but either a paragon or a renegade. Crusading paladin or avenging, ruthless knight.
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Mechavomit's Avatar


Mechavomit
02.03.2012 , 03:30 PM | #396
Quote:
I would like to know why people play these "bad guys" and have fun making such decisions, but still call themselves "good" and say that they are unaffected by such content.
So when a writer writes a book and creates a very interesting villain for it, that does all kinds of bad things, he is automatically evil himself?
I just don't get the primitivism of people. Why something I make my character do has to be connected to me?

maradigamer's Avatar


maradigamer
02.03.2012 , 03:32 PM | #397
One of the best things about SWTOR is the ability to choose light or dark. I find dark side distasteful so I play light side even though most of my characters are Empire.

Spoiler


Am I perfectly at ease with the teen rating on this game? Nope, but that's probably because I'm an American, we turn our kids loose in games with blood splatter and severed body parts going everywhere, but as soon as there's the slightest hint of sexuality, we freak. If this thread had been titled "violence, slavery, and genocide", it would have summed up just about every video game out there, it's that s-word that gets our panties in a bunch.

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
02.03.2012 , 03:32 PM | #398
To all the other posters , I'm sorry but I couldn't read through 40 pages of this.
To the OP , I just wanted to say that because people like you exist all games . stories , movies music and so on is polluted by the "right" ideas . Taking your way of thinking into consideration , Tom and Jerry ; Buggs Bunny cartoons should be banned because they are too violent and inappropriate . Games and movies and so on are just entertainment and , by normal and sane people , are considered just that. By living in a idealistic world we don't what's wrong in the society we live today. IMO people should be exposed to both the light and the dark , so to speak , in order to see what truly life is and what lies in front of them and I like to think that a game would not change this , because that would mean that we are devolving into the primates we once were , meaning we would loose our ability to discern between reality and fantasy. and i truly hope and like to think that our society is not heading in that direction , even tho with people like you I'm starting to think that is a possibility.
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Attaraxia's Avatar


Attaraxia
02.03.2012 , 03:46 PM | #399
-op

You should really [not] read the Revan book. It's by one of the principal authors behind Sw:Tor, and offers some pretty interesting insight into his personality. To save you the pain I put myself through in choking it down and just get to the moments i'm talking about:

Several times in the story, male and female compatriots fight together. Enough times to make it a noticeable trend (3 or 4). Every time, more attention is given to the woman's death. The men are swept under the rug, and the women either experience questioning -> death, or just an outright brutal death with graphic descriptions. The one exception happens at the end of the book, and stands out as a remarkable example of somehow departing from a bad theme only to hit something worse.

The only other thing worth noting is that... well, Dragon Age 2 got ripped on for a lot of other things, but at least the sexuality wasn't offensive. Maybe taking a more open-minded stance and getting crapped on for it drove BW's writers to the traditional sexist route for SWTOR.

Maybe ME3 will be a step back in the right direction. I suppose we'll see.
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Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
02.03.2012 , 03:49 PM | #400
Quote: Originally Posted by peterpangelo View Post
So I'm not trying to preach anything to anyone... I don't care who you play or why, but it IS an interesting notion that the OP brought up, and I'm fascinated by the psychology behind it... I would like to know why people play these "bad guys" and have fun making such decisions, but still call themselves "good" and say that they are unaffected by such content. However, if I'll ever achieve such an answer, it's *most likely* going to be outside of this forum, lol. But I am interested to see how the trolls attack me here, like they so brutally ripped apart this poor OP, hehe.
Interesting indeed. But I think you could interpret the psychology in an other way. I agree that we all have this evil inside of us.
Reading about an evil character, watching an evil character or playing an evil character is the chance to explore this evil inside of us. We want to know how it works, but we still know it is our enemy. Especially if we have a good guy on the other side. (Most of us play good and evil characters in swtor I think.)

So we learn more about good and evil inside of us and this helps us to choose good over evil in RL.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
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