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Nerf Annihilation Marauder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles
Nerf Annihilation Marauder

AndoEyrune's Avatar


AndoEyrune
04.18.2016 , 08:18 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
In a PVE point of view, I kinda agree with the OP. I mean, anni is clearly an outlier for the moment and need to be brought back in line. I'm not calling for huge nerfs that destroy the class, just a little something so that it's not miles away from the other.
I won't talk about PVP since I've never play a sent nor a mara in PVP.
Honestly I disagree with this statement. While anni could maybe use a small nerf, I believe other melee dot specs need a buff. While anni (and to a lesser degree, lethality) is in a good place for single target damage, pyro, hatred, and vengeance are all lacking in single target sustained damage. Additionally, there is an imbalance with burst specs, especially arsenal, doing more sustained damage than dot specs. The solution, imo, is to buff melee sustained classes to be closer to anni's level and to nerf outlier burst yet high sustained specs such as arsenal and perhaps carnage as well.
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THAT_EPIC_GUY's Avatar


THAT_EPIC_GUY
04.18.2016 , 05:21 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AndoEyrune View Post
Honestly I disagree with this statement. While anni could maybe use a small nerf, I believe other melee dot specs need a buff. While anni (and to a lesser degree, lethality) is in a good place for single target damage, pyro, hatred, and vengeance are all lacking in single target sustained damage. Additionally, there is an imbalance with burst specs, especially arsenal, doing more sustained damage than dot specs. The solution, imo, is to buff melee sustained classes to be closer to anni's level and to nerf outlier burst yet high sustained specs such as arsenal and perhaps carnage as well.
Anni is perhaps one of the most fragile rotations, the moment it gets out of sync due to a loss of uptime you lose a lot of dps getting it back in sync or even more if you just yolo onwards. Other melee dot specs don't suffer from this as much. So despite how far ahead anni is on dummy parses, the raid performance is less dominant. If you buffed other melee dot specs to anni levels, they would be grossly overpowered since they don't suffer from this issue anywhere near as much as anni. That being said, if anni design stays as is, then i believe it needs a very small nerf but should also probably be ahead of the other melee dot specs. I think some melee dot specs could use a small buff.

I also think carnage is one of the most broken specs right now. It has; 2nd highest sustained damage (behind anni), 2nd highest burst (behind AP), probably the best or 2nd best aoe. (hard to compare due the nature of aoe over a long period vs aoe burst, since aoe burst is typically all that's relevant in raids). This spec is more in need of a nerf than anni right now.
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Tintfax's Avatar


Tintfax
04.19.2016 , 11:11 AM | #13
Yup, agree with that.
Other melee-sustained need a little buff and carnage need a nerf. to powerful in pve as a burst-spec.

But the anni-rotation isn't that complicated anymore. In my opinion it is very forgiving now, but that is only my impression.

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
04.20.2016 , 10:59 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by acerexomega View Post
But Anni has terrible burst and target swapping ability, and mediocre AOE capability for the most part. It's the top spec for a reason- it's hard to master, and hard to play in a dynamic environment. Even if a nerf is required (and I'm not saying it is)
I get that, but for the moment, even if I think it should stay top DPS, it's just too far away from the rest. I mean, the class is 3% better than the second one, that's 200 DPS the same difference as between 2nd and 8th. The Devs stated they wanted every specs within 5%, that's not even close.

Quote: Originally Posted by acerexomega View Post
surely Carnage should be the one brought down slightly in terms of sustained DPS instead of Anni.
Yes, Carnage should be brought in line too, but that's the matter of a whole new discussion ^^

Quote: Originally Posted by acerexomega View Post
A small nerf to Arsenal (one of the easiest classes to play) would also not be unwarranted.
If only they could remove their 30% bonus to surge passive on certain abilities, that would only be fair.
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WheresMyWhisky's Avatar


WheresMyWhisky
04.22.2016 , 03:00 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by THAT_EPIC_GUY View Post
Anni is perhaps one of the most fragile rotations, the moment it gets out of sync due to a loss of uptime you lose a lot of dps getting it back in sync or even more if you just yolo onwards..
Basically this yes there are some huge dps numbers from it on a dummy but if you look at the uploaded logs for bosses its very rarely at the top and is usually behind carnage. As soon as you have any downtime your dps drops markedly.

Anyway I would hope Bioware balance classes on how they do in actual fights not on what they can do on a dummy, as that is a much more realistic measure in my book.
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Lodinn's Avatar


Lodinn
05.05.2016 , 09:23 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by WheresMyWhisky View Post
Basically this yes there are some huge dps numbers from it on a dummy but if you look at the uploaded logs for bosses its very rarely at the top and is usually behind carnage. As soon as you have any downtime your dps drops markedly.
It's funny how people talk about anni rotation being hard and fragile while I almost never can do better in carnage than I can in anni, back in 3.0 times I had 400-500 dps advantage in anni on lurker as compared to carnage and it's believed to be a burst fight. So rotation being difficult? Not THAT much.

Fragile though... Oh yes. When I learned spec anew in 4.0 apparently I was lacking some major chunk of dps on parses, and insane parses come out when everything aligns perfectly - it's very important now with super crit to have berserk at right times so to max out dot dps, and that increase easily makes up for 500+ dummy dps when you translate it to raid environment and lose uptime. Anni maras are bit too good now (don't forget 'old' raids, raid buff, predation and amazing personal cooldowns), and so are maras in general - it's glory days again, too sad operative/sin dps are not getting nearly the same treatment.
But advantage is not so insane when you compare anni with AP, say. In that sense balance is bit better than it was in 3.0 where AP was the ultimate answer for everything, but arsenal, AP and anni all over again? With some occasional snipers or juggs? Even considering they shuffled out IO as 3.0 FOTM it doesn't justify arsenal being so good.
And don't forget debuffs specs can inflict on bosses.
So, better buff operative/sin/jugg/sorc sustain, nerf maras very slightly (like 50-100 dummy dps), tune sniper specs and you'll get something viable.
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WheresMyWhisky's Avatar


WheresMyWhisky
05.05.2016 , 05:46 PM | #17
[QUOTE=Lodinn;8926213]It's funny how people talk about anni rotation being hard and fragile while I almost never can do better in carnage than I can in anni, back in 3.0 times I had 400-500 dps advantage in anni on lurker as compared to carnage and it's believed to be a burst fight. So rotation being difficult? Not THAT much.
QUOTE]

I don't think the rotation is hard just fragile i.e. if you get tiny bit out of sync and things stop lining up perfectly the dps drop is very large if my hands could actually take 55apm carnage is much more forgiving to play (I don't say much easier as they are both easy) but after one boss I pretty much have RSI from carnage

I am pretty much just saying you should not balance off dummy parses

and to support the dummy hero thingy

Added visual dps/hps spread to http://ixparse.com/rating/ - sents/maras may be dummy heroes, but in real fights all classes seem to be on par

http://ixparse.com/rating/
If you think you can ever have too much Whisky you are wrong

KOTET the expac that actively encourages all PVE player to bugger off to Azeroth, where at least you get content

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
05.06.2016 , 09:47 AM | #18
I don't think the rotation is hard just fragile i.e. if you get tiny bit out of sync and things stop lining up perfectly the dps drop is very large if my hands could actually take 55apm carnage is much more forgiving to play (I don't say much easier as they are both easy) but after one boss I pretty much have RSI from carnage

I am pretty much just saying you should not balance off dummy parses

and to support the dummy hero thingy

Added visual dps/hps spread to http://ixparse.com/rating/ - sents/maras may be dummy heroes, but in real fights all classes seem to be on par

http://ixparse.com/rating/[/QUOTE]

Rotation fragility and/or difficulty should not be the only thing to be taken into account when balancing. Other things like raid utility should be as weel. Look at mara, they have amazing damage, a raid buff and a raid wide speed buff while other classes like sins for example do less damage, have no raid buff and pretty much no raid utility. So what would be the reason to take a sin when everything he can do a mara can do it better and has more tools to help the raid ? Class with amazing raid utility should do less damage since there are already a lot of reason to bring them in a raid.
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llayles's Avatar


llayles
05.06.2016 , 10:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
In a PVE point of view, I kinda agree with the OP.
So from a PVE point of view you agree with the two sentence OP that offers literally 0 support for their opinion. Yeah ok.

Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
. I mean, anni is clearly an outlier for the moment and need to be brought back in line. I'm not calling for huge nerfs that destroy the class, just a little something so that it's not miles away from the other.
An outlier in what? The rest of the mara specs? Melee DPS? DPS? The farther you get down that line the less accurate these statements become. If you think a dummy parse is in any way representative of the actual damage you're going to be putting out in a raid, I have some very upsetting news for you.

Kyovarde's Avatar


Kyovarde
05.06.2016 , 11:20 AM | #20
From a PvE standpoint, okay, so a DoT melee class that has an absurdly complicated rotation (compared to WoW's lol priority models) needs a nerf? lolno

PvP, what? Oh noes, you lost 1v1 against a class with multiple awesome DCDs, target dumps, and self heals? That's not an Annihilation or Watchman problem.