Please List Classes in usual Highest DPS by class as of Aug 29, 2015

1.

2.

etc

Highest DPS on what? 1 mil dummy parsing? Specific boss fights?

You'll get a different answer for each.

1. Powertech

2. powertech

3. powertech

4. powertech

5. another powertech

on a more serious note:

http://parsely.io/

I'll list in expected raid DPS order across the tier (e.g. lightning sorcs > all on Underlurker, but they're weak on the rest of the tier), since dummy parses, while interesting, are ultimately useless. Doing this from memory, so maybe flipped one or two:

1. Advanced Prototype (powertech)
   
2. Innovative Ordinance (merc)
   
3. Virulence (sniper)
   
4. Pyro (powertech)
   
5. Lightning (sorc)
   
6. Marksmanship (sniper)
   
7. Carnage (marauder)
   
8. Concealment (operative)
   
9. Lethality (operative)
   
10. Vengeance (juggernaut)
    
11. Annihilation (marauder)
    
12. Fury (marauder)
    
13. Deception (assassin)
    
14. Arsenal (merc)
    
15. Hatred (assassin)
    
16. Engineering (sniper)
    
17. Madness (sorc)
    
18. Rage (juggernaut)
    

If you want to weight the results more heavily by the apex bosses (Revan and Cora), Lightning drops to maybe fourth from the bottom, while Carnage, Fury and Concealment move up quite a bit, Pyro and Virulence drop somewhat.

As a quick disclaimer on a couple of the placements that some people probably disagree with…

Marksmanship is in a much better place than most people think. I've seen parses from it that rival Virulence even on a dummy, and on a boss a well-played Marksmanship will be able to hold their own and at least remain within spitting distance. The armor debuff is really underrated in this tier, and since most groups are running their mercs in IO and might not have an AP powertech or Carnage marauder, it falls to the sniper to maintain the debuff. For reference, if your sniper is your only armor debuff, they would need to parse roughly 500 DPS better in Virulence than they do in Marksmanship in order to make it worthwhile to give up that debuff. No one has that kind of differential.

Lightning is similarly much better off than most people believe, though it suffers from death issues on Ruugar and absolute torment on third floor Revan (8 usable GCDs every 30 seconds; hurray!). In terms of DPS though, the numbers it can put up are surprisingly high for such a high burst, high AoE, high mobility ranged class.

Lethality is a similarly underrated discipline. Its DPS is too low right now to be really competitive with Concealment, but it does have its moments, and in the right hands it can be almost as viable as Concealment. Lethality will out-DPS almost every other spec on floor one Revan (Lightning takes the crown here), even if you only have one melee.

I'll list in expected raid DPS order across the tier (e.g. lightning sorcs > all on Underlurker, but they're weak on the rest of the tier), since dummy parses, while interesting, are ultimately useless. Doing this from memory, so maybe flipped one or two:

 

1. Advanced Prototype (powertech)
   
2. Innovative Ordinance (merc)
   
3. Virulence (sniper)
   
4. Pyro (powertech)
   
5. Lightning (sorc)
   
6. Marksmanship (sniper)
   
7. Carnage (marauder)
   
8. Concealment (operative)
   
9. Lethality (operative)
   
10. Vengeance (juggernaut)
    
11. Annihilation (marauder)
    
12. Fury (marauder)
    
13. Deception (assassin)
    
14. Arsenal (merc)
    
15. Hatred (assassin)
    
16. Engineering (sniper)
    
17. Madness (sorc)
    
18. Rage (juggernaut)
    

While in general i agree with rankings, it's hard to estimate it from some point on. It's obvious that AP and IO will hold a crown in general, but as you mentioned there are heavily underrated specs. Engi, for example, is really good but requires some adjustment in what group does, while Marksman is both flexible and decent, not to mention best AOE at the moment.

What is suspicious is that many dot melee specs are lower than I'd expect them to be, especially given i play Anni a lot and it seems clearly superior to Carnage in most fights thanks to dots, healing, uptime and, since 3.2.1, shorter rotation cycles. Quick look at Parsely confirmed that's not only me and even on fights with adds Anni is still very decent.

I'll list in expected raid DPS order across the tier (e.g. lightning sorcs > all on Underlurker, but they're weak on the rest of the tier), since dummy parses, while interesting, are ultimately useless. Doing this from memory, so maybe flipped one or two:

 

1. Advanced Prototype (powertech)
   
2. Innovative Ordinance (merc)
   
3. Virulence (sniper)
   
4. Pyro (powertech)
   
5. Lightning (sorc)
   
6. Marksmanship (sniper)
   
7. Carnage (marauder)
   
8. Concealment (operative)
   
9. Lethality (operative)
   
10. Vengeance (juggernaut)
    
11. Annihilation (marauder)
    
12. Fury (marauder)
    
13. Deception (assassin)
    
14. Arsenal (merc)
    
15. Hatred (assassin)
    
16. Engineering (sniper)
    
17. Madness (sorc)
    
18. Rage (juggernaut)
    

 

If you want to weight the results more heavily by the apex bosses (Revan and Cora), Lightning drops to maybe fourth from the bottom, while Carnage, Fury and Concealment move up quite a bit, Pyro and Virulence drop somewhat.

 

As a quick disclaimer on a couple of the placements that some people probably disagree with…

 

Marksmanship is in a much better place than most people think. I've seen parses from it that rival Virulence even on a dummy, and on a boss a well-played Marksmanship will be able to hold their own and at least remain within spitting distance. The armor debuff is really underrated in this tier, and since most groups are running their mercs in IO and might not have an AP powertech or Carnage marauder, it falls to the sniper to maintain the debuff. For reference, if your sniper is your only armor debuff, they would need to parse roughly 500 DPS better in Virulence than they do in Marksmanship in order to make it worthwhile to give up that debuff. No one has that kind of differential.

 

Lightning is similarly much better off than most people believe, though it suffers from death issues on Ruugar and absolute torment on third floor Revan (8 usable GCDs every 30 seconds; hurray!). In terms of DPS though, the numbers it can put up are surprisingly high for such a high burst, high AoE, high mobility ranged class.

 

Lethality is a similarly underrated discipline. Its DPS is too low right now to be really competitive with Concealment, but it does have its moments, and in the right hands it can be almost as viable as Concealment. Lethality will out-DPS almost every other spec on floor one Revan (Lightning takes the crown here), even if you only have one melee.

Question you know how Madness sorcs demolish I think its called puts a 5% damage buff to force attacks or something and then say a Anni maras Annihlate gives the 7% from elemental damage. Would having both of those debuffs up on a target mean more damage for Anni mara bleeds which are internal but are also considered force attacks, compared to not having the madness sorcs vulnerable debuff?

Also the talent that lets guardians and juggernauts sweep/thrust apply the sunder effect on all targets hit valuable?

Thank you

Question you know how Madness sorcs demolish I think its called puts a 5% damage buff to force attacks or something and then say a Anni maras Annihlate gives the 7% from elemental damage. Would having both of those debuffs up on a target mean more damage for Anni mara bleeds which are internal but are also considered force attacks, compared to not having the madness sorcs vulnerable debuff?

Yes. Since each attack is simultaneously melee/ranged/force/tech and energy/kinetic/internal/elemental, they are buffed by both(not to mention Overwhelmed which increases AoE attack damage, for example, Suppressive Fire would do more damage with Marked, Armor Debuff, and Overwhelmed all on a target than if just Armor Debuff was on the target).

(e.g. lightning sorcs > all on Underlurker,

In my experience, Powertechs breaking 5.5k dps on Underlurker easily.

With current Sorcs it's like 5k at best, we're doing quite good. But not the best, not at all.

If you want to weight the results more heavily by the apex bosses (Revan and Cora), Lightning drops to maybe fourth from the bottom.

What's your results on Revan?

I'm asking just because no one uploading logs from this boss, and among people i know, i'm the only one, who have done Revan with sorc, unfortunatly.

Lightning is similarly much better off than most people believe, though it suffers from death issues on Ruugar and absolute torment on third floor Revan (8 usable GCDs every 30 seconds; hurray!). In terms of DPS though, the numbers it can put up are surprisingly high for such a high burst, high AoE, high mobility ranged class.

Well, i suppose, the same can be said for Madness, in certain scenarios (Torque, M&B) it can at least go toe to toe with top dps classess. But, when single target dps is concerned, Madness is bad choise, yeah.

In my experience, Powertechs breaking 5.5k dps on Underlurker easily.

With current Sorcs it's like 5k at best, we're doing quite good. But not the best, not at all.

Depends on if you run 5 dps or 4. Running 5 DPS means the adds die too quick for an electro shield on each group of adds.

What's your results on Revan?

I'm asking just because no one uploading logs from this boss, and among people i know, i'm the only one, who have done Revan with sorc, unfortunatly.

No one uploads for Revan HM because Parsely can't differentiate between SM and HM for some reason. As such, all the HM logs are hidden in the SM ones.

No one uploads for Revan HM because Parsely can't differentiate between SM and HM for some reason. As such, all the HM logs are hidden in the SM ones.

Thank you very much for information, didn't knew that.

Yes. Since each attack is simultaneously melee/ranged/force/tech and energy/kinetic/internal/elemental, they are buffed by both(not to mention Overwhelmed which increases AoE attack damage, for example, Suppressive Fire would do more damage with Marked, Armor Debuff, and Overwhelmed all on a target than if just Armor Debuff was on the target).

Well that's really cool makes sense thank you.

What's your results on Revan?

I'm asking just because no one uploading logs from this boss, and among people i know, i'm the only one, who have done Revan with sorc, unfortunatly.

Mid-4k first and second phases, assuming clean tanking and cleansing. Third phase mid-high 3ks with a DPS stop, 4k without. Third floor push… uh, irrelevantly short? Core damage: about 400k. The amount of sheer suck for sorcs on the Core is hard to overstate, especially when the PTs are lol-hydraulicsing the pulls and maintaining their rotation cleanly even through the aberrations. :-(

So, obviously those numbers are viable. And even adjusting down, pretending I have a 192 main hand (this is with a 204), they would have been viable pre-nerf. But the aim classes are just miles beyond, and the raw unpleasantness of the third (and really second floor) as a sorc cannot be ignored. Honestly, the only legitimately nice thing the class brings is the ability to delete the 64 stack Heave.

For reference, if your sniper is your only armor debuff, they would need to parse roughly 500 DPS better in Virulence than they do in Marksmanship in order to make it worthwhile to give up that debuff. No one has that kind of differential.

I'd like to add that you need that 500 dps just to make up for your own loss. I expect the armor debuff to add more than that devided over the other 3 dps.

I'd like to add that you need that 500 dps just to make up for your own loss. I expect the armor debuff to add more than that devided over the other 3 dps.

I did the math on it a few months ago, and I don't think it's quite that much. It varies from group to group, but the specific composition was: io merc x2, fury marauder, sniper. Assuming dummy DPS output from everyone, the difference in debuffs for the whole group between virulence and marksmanship was just over 500 DPS (in favor of Marksmanship). So this takes into account the fact that Marksmanship benefits more from the armor debuff than Virulence does.

Mid-4k first and second phases, assuming clean tanking and cleansing. Third phase mid-high 3ks with a DPS stop, 4k without. Third floor push… uh, irrelevantly short? Core damage: about 400k. The amount of sheer suck for sorcs on the Core is hard to overstate, especially when the PTs are lol-hydraulicsing the pulls and maintaining their rotation cleanly even through the aberrations. :-(

I have exactly same situation. I've tried to go with Madness, thought, maybe DoT-effects will partly cover lossess during abberations (it didnt, not at all), but Madness lack of mobility was hard to manage during 1st and 2nd floors.

And hydraulics, i'm wondering, with so much push/pull mechanics in both ToS and The Ravagers, wasn't it obvious to developers, that bounty hunters will have too much of advantage (leaving out of discussion pure dps superiority)? Actually, people doing something like challenge runs "Revan HM with no bounty hunters" - when it got to this point, devs should understand, that hydraulics situation has gone out of hand.

So, obviously those numbers are viable. And even adjusting down, pretending I have a 192 main hand (this is with a 204), they would have been viable pre-nerf. But the aim classes are just miles beyond, and the raw unpleasantness of the third (and really second floor) as a sorc cannot be ignored. Honestly, the only legitimately nice thing the class brings is the ability to delete the 64 stack Heave.

During this week, i intend to try out my assassin on Revan, i expect his survivability on third floor will be much higher, thanks to double Force Shroud, with both of them have much shorter CDs than Force Barrier, also allowing to move and deal damage while protected.

Also, concerning mainhands. I always thought, that Sorcs get the least out of mainhand upgrade among all AC due to lack of weapon-based abilities in sorc's rotations, hence, we have nothing that scale with mainhand damage, unlike everyone else. Am i right here?

Also, concerning mainhands. I always thought, that Sorcs get the least out of mainhand upgrade among all AC due to lack of weapon-based abilities in sorc's rotations, hence, we have nothing that scale with mainhand damage, unlike everyone else. Am i right here?

Nope! Main hand (and off hand) scale force/tech power the same as they scale base white damage. Ability coefficients and classes in general are VERY carefully tuned such that the main hand is a roughly equivalent upgrade for basically everyone. Now, it is true that force/tech-heavy classes get more out of the off hand than white damage dealers, but it's not a particularly significant amount.

Nope! Main hand (and off hand) scale force/tech power the same as they scale base white damage. Ability coefficients and classes in general are VERY carefully tuned such that the main hand is a roughly equivalent upgrade for basically everyone. Now, it is true that force/tech-heavy classes get more out of the off hand than white damage dealers, but it's not a particularly significant amount.

Nice to know, thank you very much for clarification.

I'll list in expected raid DPS order across the tier (e.g. lightning sorcs > all on Underlurker, but they're weak on the rest of the tier), since dummy parses, while interesting, are ultimately useless. Doing this from memory, so maybe flipped one or two:

 

1. Advanced Prototype (powertech)
   
2. Innovative Ordinance (merc)
   
3. Virulence (sniper)
   
4. Pyro (powertech)
   
5. Lightning (sorc)
   
6. Marksmanship (sniper)
   
7. Carnage (marauder)
   
8. Concealment (operative)
   
9. Lethality (operative)
   
10. Vengeance (juggernaut)
    
11. Annihilation (marauder)
    
12. Fury (marauder)
    
13. Deception (assassin)
    
14. Arsenal (merc)
    
15. Hatred (assassin)
    
16. Engineering (sniper)
    
17. Madness (sorc)
    
18. Rage (juggernaut)
    

 

If you want to weight the results more heavily by the apex bosses (Revan and Cora), Lightning drops to maybe fourth from the bottom, while Carnage, Fury and Concealment move up quite a bit, Pyro and Virulence drop somewhat.

 

As a quick disclaimer on a couple of the placements that some people probably disagree with…

 

Marksmanship is in a much better place than most people think. I've seen parses from it that rival Virulence even on a dummy, and on a boss a well-played Marksmanship will be able to hold their own and at least remain within spitting distance. The armor debuff is really underrated in this tier, and since most groups are running their mercs in IO and might not have an AP powertech or Carnage marauder, it falls to the sniper to maintain the debuff. For reference, if your sniper is your only armor debuff, they would need to parse roughly 500 DPS better in Virulence than they do in Marksmanship in order to make it worthwhile to give up that debuff. No one has that kind of differential.

 

Lightning is similarly much better off than most people believe, though it suffers from death issues on Ruugar and absolute torment on third floor Revan (8 usable GCDs every 30 seconds; hurray!). In terms of DPS though, the numbers it can put up are surprisingly high for such a high burst, high AoE, high mobility ranged class.

 

Lethality is a similarly underrated discipline. Its DPS is too low right now to be really competitive with Concealment, but it does have its moments, and in the right hands it can be almost as viable as Concealment. Lethality will out-DPS almost every other spec on floor one Revan (Lightning takes the crown here), even if you only have one melee.

Is it safe to assume, the Republic counterparts are basicly the same ranking when it comes to DPS?

Is it safe to assume, the Republic counterparts are basicly the same ranking when it comes to DPS?

If not for imbalances due to bugs, yes

If not for imbalances due to bugs, yes

That and commandos do slightly better than mercs + gunslingers do slightly less than snipers, because there is no 204 offhand to boost their damage - A sniper rifle/assault cannon does the same amount of extra weapon damage compared to a pistol to make up for the offhand, assuming the same gear level - so if the mainhand is higher rating, the sniper/mando has the advantage, but if the offhand is higher rating the Slinger/Merc has the advantage

That and commandos do slightly better than mercs + gunslingers do slightly less than snipers, because there is no 204 offhand to boost their damage - A sniper rifle/assault cannon does the same amount of extra weapon damage compared to a pistol to make up for the offhand, assuming the same gear level - so if the mainhand is higher rating, the sniper/mando has the advantage, but if the offhand is higher rating the Slinger/Merc has the advantage

That's an interesting point, kwerty, but it is slightly counter-balanced in the slinger case by the fact that >100% accuracy (basically an inevitability due to quantized gear) and, more significantly, Illegal Mods substantially favor gunslingers over snipers. I doubt it's as much as the 204 vs 198 differences in the basic attack scaling, but it's there. On even gear footing, gunslingers should always out-parse snipers on average over time.