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Attacks that cannot be Shielded or Defended?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles
Attacks that cannot be Shielded or Defended?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
02.02.2015 , 09:29 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by meisterjedi View Post
Unfortunately I only found 2 Malaphar kills in my logs without an extended search, but in both fights the misschance on hammer smash was ~5% so it might just be a low precision attack.
Surprisingly explosive fuel didn't seem to have any effect on the amount of resists, although my sample size is far too small to make real conclusions. However that would contradict hammer smash beeing melee and EF granting resist chance as well if theese observations would be confirmed by more parses.
Actually if you see "resist" at all, then that would be sufficient to falsify my conjecture. I was seeing between 20 and 30% "0 damage" ratios in the logs I was looking at, which fell in line with defense chance and was the reason I lean toward it being melee. I haven't actually done rigorous testing with it though.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

meisterjedi's Avatar


meisterjedi
02.02.2015 , 09:49 AM | #12
Parsec put the note wiederstanden (german translation for resisted) behind all 0 dmg instances of hammer smash.
Not sure where the huge amount in your logs came from though. was this on your shadow or did you look at other tanks parses as well?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
02.02.2015 , 05:06 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by meisterjedi View Post
Parsec put the note wiederstanden (german translation for resisted) behind all 0 dmg instances of hammer smash.
Not sure where the huge amount in your logs came from though. was this on your shadow or did you look at other tanks parses as well?
I was looking at a PT parse. I saw Parsec's resist note, but that doesn't come from the logs themselves (there is no mention of resist with Hammer Smash hits for 0 damage). I think it's just Parsec having a hard coded "resist" bucket for any I/E damage that hits for 0.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

MiaowZedong's Avatar


MiaowZedong
02.02.2015 , 05:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Horano_Heresy View Post
Force/Tech + Internal/Elemental attacks are neither defended nor shielded against, and cannot be mitigated by armor.
The only stat that's useful against F/T + I/E is Endurance.
This is not entirely true.

There is an I/E Damage Reduction stat and Force/Tech Resistance chance applies to all known I/E attacks (possibly with the exception of Malaphar's Hammer Smash). However, you cannot gain those stats from gear, only from class passives and actives.

Regarding Malaphar, I also think his default attack is Melee and Internal. I think this because I have a high defend percentage against it even when I do not use Force Shroud, which should only be possible if my Defence and Deflection are applying to it.

meisterjedi's Avatar


meisterjedi
02.02.2015 , 05:45 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I was looking at a PT parse. I saw Parsec's resist note, but that doesn't come from the logs themselves (there is no mention of resist with Hammer Smash hits for 0 damage). I think it's just Parsec having a hard coded "resist" bucket for any I/E damage that hits for 0.
I investigated this a little more today and had 0% miss/resist on malaphars hammer smash. I did not use EF however as I'm pretty sure it gives 35% resist chance as well. Both my logs of several different fights and the ingame values for force/tech resist support this.
If your logs come from a PT that had a really high uptime of EF while tanking the boss (meaning he manages all add groups and only taunts occasionally to reset the stacks) 20-30% sounds perfectly plausible.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
02.03.2015 , 07:38 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by meisterjedi View Post
I investigated this a little more today and had 0% miss/resist on malaphars hammer smash. I did not use EF however as I'm pretty sure it gives 35% resist chance as well. Both my logs of several different fights and the ingame values for force/tech resist support this.
If your logs come from a PT that had a really high uptime of EF while tanking the boss (meaning he manages all add groups and only taunts occasionally to reset the stacks) 20-30% sounds perfectly plausible.
One theory would be that it's a melee+i/e ability with an accuracy boost (not unprecedented!) to avoid resists by non-tanks.

A trivial way to test this would be to just hit Resilience/Shroud when the attack is coming and see if you get a resist in the flytext. If not, then it's definitely melee. I would run this test myself, but I'm traveling at present and don't have access to swtor.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
02.03.2015 , 05:59 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
A trivial way to test this would be to just hit Resilience/Shroud when the attack is coming and see if you get a resist in the flytext. If not, then it's definitely melee. I would run this test myself, but I'm traveling at present and don't have access to swtor.
I looked through all of my logs for HM Malaphar. Sadly, though I used Force Shroud on several occasions it was only active during one Hammer Smash. That single instance of Hammer Smash was resisted, but with such a small sample size I can't rule out the possibility that it was random.

Out of 103 instances of Hammer Smash...

3 were resisted (Only one of these occurred during Force Shroud. This seems to be consistent with Assassin's 2% Force/Tech resistance.)
10 did 0 damage due to an unknown mitigation (I checked the combat log; it didn't show resist, parry, absorbed, etc.)

I'm confused by the "unknown mitigation" hits since those attacks that did 0 damage still conferred full threat as if they had hit. This is different from resisted or parried attacks that do only 1 threat. The party did not contain a Powertech, so this was not caused by Sonic Rebounder. It wasn't caused by Sonic Wall from my Jug cotank either, since the "unknown mitigation" hits usually occurred at times when I didn't have Sonic Wall on me.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
02.04.2015 , 02:00 AM | #18
Had 8% resist on hammer smash, doesnt however falsify the fact that it might be F/T+I/E damage. I/E damage can be resisted therefore log shows 0 damage. If it was M/R it would be defendable. 8% of the attacks defended as a juggernaut with 24% defense doesnt seem to be right. So its the base chance to resist I/E attacks of 5% + some rnd factor +3% = 8%. Don't know why you expect it to be M/R. Its not defendable only resistable.
Revanchist

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
02.04.2015 , 05:03 PM | #19
I wonder if the "unknown mitigation" that drops Hammer Smash to 0 damage without a resist is actually just being out of the circle. That would be a weird way to implement the mechanic, but not impossible.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
02.05.2015 , 12:03 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I wonder if the "unknown mitigation" that drops Hammer Smash to 0 damage without a resist is actually just being out of the circle. That would be a weird way to implement the mechanic, but not impossible.
I noticed the "unknown mitigation" hits usually happened a few seconds before or after I lost Savagery. But if simply standing outside the circle caused the 0 damage then I would see it occur more frequently in my log (while I tanked the adds for extended periods). My guess is that it's caused by standing inside the circle while having 0 stacks of Savagery. That would account for the rarity, since the timing of Hammer Smash would have to be just right to occur before the next application of stacks.