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Smash @ 2 per min - Tested


CharterMonkKent

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Last night, after finishing dalies on my Sorc and Shadow I went back to the Rage Jugg. I did a respec that trades Force Crush for unstoppable. Which means I can only do 2 shockwave smashes every 40ish seconds if perfectly timed, so in reality about 2 a minute. I call this spec the dirty bubble popper (to eliminate stun bubbles). The bubble breaking worked wonders btw.

 

My thoughts on having two shockwave builders as opposed to three.

 

1. In reality it would bring overall rage damage down to a reasonable level.

2. Force Choke is incredibly easy to negate. I was rarely able to get 4 stacks by using it.

3. Rage stills get the big hit, it's rare but still very bursty.

4. Some players will still complain about smash, not understanding or not caring the attack is rarely used.

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Last night, after finishing dalies on my Sorc and Shadow I went back to the Rage Jugg. I did a respec that trades Force Crush for unstoppable. Which means I can only do 2 shockwave smashes every 40ish seconds if perfectly timed, so in reality about 2 a minute. I call this spec the dirty bubble popper (to eliminate stun bubbles). The bubble breaking worked wonders btw.

 

My thoughts on having two shockwave builders as opposed to three.

 

1. In reality it would bring overall rage damage down to a reasonable level.

2. Force Choke is incredibly easy to negate. I was rarely able to get 4 stacks by using it.

3. Rage stills get the big hit, it's rare but still very bursty.

4. Some players will still complain about smash, not understanding or not caring the attack is rarely used.

 

1. I don't think overall damage in Full Rage is an issue, and by that I am assuming scoreboard numbers.

2. Agreed, but with the leap immunity or full resolve bar...... meh?

3. You should still get the big hits with the insta 4 stacks in the unstoppable spec'd:confused: as to how it is rare.

4. Yup..

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1. I don't think overall damage in Full Rage is an issue, and by that I am assuming scoreboard numbers.

2. Agreed, but with the leap immunity or full resolve bar...... meh?

3. You should still get the big hits with the insta 4 stacks in the unstoppable spec'd:confused: as to how it is rare.

4. Yup..

 

So you're one of the people who think that 2 full smashes per min is too much, got it. 2 per min isn't rare?

 

Now I'm the one who is confused.

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So you're one of the people who think that 2 full smashes per min is too much, got it. 2 per min isn't rare?

 

Now I'm the one who is confused.

 

Well no, but even in full spec how many can you get off? Technically 5, but probably more like 3-4 (if you value such things as MS/RAV, DIS, FS/BS). So I just don't see much of a difference there to call it "rare" that's all... Do you mean rare as in, rare to get max smashes, or rare in the amount of times you can smash?

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4. Some players will still complain about smash, not understanding or not caring the attack is rarely used.

 

Issue is with Sentinels and Marauders able to get many more smashes than this off per minute. Specced correctly... these classes can build centering/fury very quickly and have a 4 stack buffed smash available on smash CD. The CD of smash is then even further reduced as well with talents within the tree. That's a big hit I'd say every 8-10s.

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Why would you gimp your damage for 2 smashes per min?

 

2 reasons I tried this out.

 

1. So sick of bubble stun and CC downtime. I went from being CC'd 9-18 seconds a min (tested in about 8 hours of pvp this week) down to... well, there were times last night when I was not successfully CC'd at all within a min of game play that included bubble stun.

 

2. Just to see how effective smash would be with only 2 enrage builders. It's still effective, not OP. The off smash still hits 2.5-3.5k.

 

I am hitting 350-500k damage in WZs, dying a lot less and I'm not a burden on the team. Our healer thanked me for switching the spec, she said I don't need to be focus healed anymore. I've only played the spec for a few hours so we will see how it goes. Overall I don't have to worry about bubble stun anymore, which is huge for me because it annoys me to no end.

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Issue is with Sentinels and Marauders able to get many more smashes than this off per minute. Specced correctly... these classes can build centering/fury very quickly and have a 4 stack buffed smash available on smash CD. The CD of smash is then even further reduced as well with talents within the tree. That's a big hit I'd say every 8-10s.

 

True. The mara/sent spec would have to be adjusted if 2 only builders were allowed every 40 seconds

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2 reasons I tried this out.

 

1. So sick of bubble stun and CC downtime. I went from being CC'd 9-18 seconds a min (tested in about 8 hours of pvp this week) down to... well, there were times last night when I was not successfully CC'd at all within a min of game play that included bubble stun.

 

2. Just to see how effective smash would be with only 2 enrage builders. It's still effective, not OP. The off smash still hits 2.5-3.5k.

 

I am hitting 350-500k damage in WZs, dying a lot less and I'm not a burden on the team. Our healer thanked me for switching the spec, she said I don't need to be focus healed anymore. I've only played the spec for a few hours so we will see how it goes. Overall I don't have to worry about bubble stun anymore, which is huge for me because it annoys me to no end.

 

Exactly what I been trying to tell him, but he refuse to believe that you can rotate between two proc builders... Jugg/Guards are a whole different beast....

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Well no, but even in full spec how many can you get off? Technically 5, but probably more like 3-4 (if you value such things as MS/RAV, DIS, FS/BS). So I just don't see much of a difference there to call it "rare" that's all... Do you mean rare as in, rare to get max smashes, or rare in the amount of times you can smash?

 

Good point, with 31 points I think 6-7 every 2min is a fair marker for smash with at least 1 stack of shockwave.

 

By rare I mean to get max smashes. The amount of smashes actually goes up in this spec (for me), because of the up time and I now use v.slash since crush is gone.

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Good point, with 31 points I think 6-7 every 2min is a fair marker for smash with at least 1 stack of shockwave.

 

By rare I mean to get max smashes. The amount of smashes actually goes up in this spec (for me), because of the up time and I now use v.slash since crush is gone.

 

I invested in the 2PC PVE gear bonus for Combat Focus/Enrage CD by 5 sec, then it will be on a 35 sec CD. The thing with Crush is that it can be cleansed, so building stacks on that can be thwarted much like Choke.

 

You are doing pretty much what I am doing/preaching: Using Slash/FS/RAV and burst with Smash, and hitting similar numbers as a Full Rager, while being quite a bit more balanced. Smash is OP'd, but if people actually used tools to prevent stack building the Full spec is not "all world".....

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I invested in the 2PC PVE gear bonus for Combat Focus/Enrage CD by 5 sec, then it will be on a 35 sec CD. The thing with Crush is that it can be cleansed, so building stacks on that can be thwarted much like Choke.

 

You are doing pretty much what I am doing/preaching: Using Slash/FS/RAV and burst with Smash, and hitting similar numbers as a Full Rager, while being quite a bit more balanced. Smash is OP'd, but if people actually used tools to prevent stack building the Full spec is not "all world".....

 

I agree with everything you said 1,000,000 times. I'm confused how many times a sage/sorc allows crush to tick 4 times. It baffles me. You'd think the slow alone would be enough of an annoyance to cleanse it. Cleanse + bubble means smash won't even budge the red bar.

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I agree with everything you said 1,000,000 times. I'm confused how many times a sage/sorc allows crush to tick 4 times. It baffles me. You'd think the slow alone would be enough of an annoyance to cleanse it. Cleanse + bubble means smash won't even budge the red bar.

 

The only way u get 4 procs out of me is if my cleanse is on CD. Which is unfortunately often since there's quite alot of stuff worth cleansing in a warzone. (been holding back on cleansing people unless I notice a crush on them lately)

But yeah, if a sorc lets you get 4 procs on crush, he's doing it wrong. (I would like to thank you though, for giving me lots of warning on when your smash might happen so I can root the **** out of you. I dislike it when those pesky smashers play smart and get their stacks from an off-target before exploding my face in)

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(I would like to thank you though, for giving me lots of warning on when your smash might happen so I can root the **** out of you. I dislike it when those pesky smashers play smart and get their stacks from an off-target before exploding my face in)

 

:D

 

/5char

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The only way u get 4 procs out of me is if my cleanse is on CD. Which is unfortunately often since there's quite alot of stuff worth cleansing in a warzone. (been holding back on cleansing people unless I notice a crush on them lately)

But yeah, if a sorc lets you get 4 procs on crush, he's doing it wrong. (I would like to thank you though, for giving me lots of warning on when your smash might happen so I can root the **** out of you. I dislike it when those pesky smashers play smart and get their stacks from an off-target before exploding my face in)

 

If this game had more smart players like you rage would have never reached its current lvl of population imbalance.

 

You are excellent.

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I agree with everything you said 1,000,000 times. I'm confused how many times a sage/sorc allows crush to tick 4 times. It baffles me. You'd think the slow alone would be enough of an annoyance to cleanse it. Cleanse + bubble means smash won't even budge the red bar.

 

It's hard to purge all four of the force crushes going on at the same time- what with purge's CD, the terrible HUD for ally debuffs, and of course the fact that you're always taking 6k smashes and sometimes need to do crazy things- like heal.

 

Add to that sorcs are targetted and thus likely have 5-7 debuffs on them at all times- even when you do purge you don't always get the ones you want.

 

Have you tried healing in WZs? I'll tell you basically what it is- leap root, leap root, leap root- stun, interrupt the heal, interrupt the other heal, debuffx7 up, taking 3 smashes, 3 force screams, execute for good measure.

 

That's pretty much every battle against competent players. Until purge is off the GCD- sometimes you need to waste your casts on just trying to survive until that white bar so you can actually do something- oh, nope, you can't... root, root, interrupt, interrupt.

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It's hard to purge all four of the force crushes going on at the same time- what with purge's CD, the terrible HUD for ally debuffs, and of course the fact that you're always taking 6k smashes and sometimes need to do crazy things- like heal.

 

Add to that sorcs are targetted and thus likely have 5-7 debuffs on them at all times- even when you do purge you don't always get the ones you want.

 

Have you tried healing in WZs? I'll tell you basically what it is- leap root, leap root, leap root- stun, interrupt the heal, interrupt the other heal, debuffx7 up, taking 3 smashes, 3 force screams, execute for good measure.

 

That's pretty much every battle against competent players. Until purge is off the GCD- sometimes you need to waste your casts on just trying to survive until that white bar so you can actually do something- oh, nope, you can't... root, root, interrupt, interrupt.

 

My main is a 31 point sorc healer (I refuse to bubble). I've also have a 50 oper with sets of both dps and healing gear.

 

Your complaint about class balance is noted.

Edited by CharterMonkKent
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Because sorc/sage can cleanse crush I try not to hit the sorc/sage with a crush. Makes getting 4 stacks easier!

 

This too- as soon as juggs/mara realize I am actually purging myself when I get debuffed- the good ones start putting the crush on someone who cannot purge at all. Until we get some good options for debuffing in the UI for healers to use- it's going to be considerably easier to do that.

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I agree with everything you said 1,000,000 times. I'm confused how many times a sage/sorc allows crush to tick 4 times. It baffles me. You'd think the slow alone would be enough of an annoyance to cleanse it. Cleanse + bubble means smash won't even budge the red bar.

 

Why cleanse when they can spec into bubble stun? :rolleyes:

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This too- as soon as juggs/mara realize I am actually purging myself when I get debuffed- the good ones start putting the crush on someone who cannot purge at all. Until we get some good options for debuffing in the UI for healers to use- it's going to be considerably easier to do that.

 

I've increased the size of the UI buff/debuff bar quite a bit on my healers. It looks stupid but helps a ton.

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Why cleanse when they can spec into bubble stun? :rolleyes:

 

I'm 21/20/0. I have the improved purge and the bubble stun- the first is necessary for survival, the second is necessary if you want to have a single ability that helps with taking objectives. That, and of course after a 6k smash it's nice to have 3 seconds to get off a heal for 3.5k.

 

Only thing you miss out on going hybrid is the aoe heal- thing is, people move so much- and, if you clump up on an aoe heal you're going to be perfect for being smashed- that the aoe heal is often not that useful.

 

It can be good for defending nodes, it's really good for Novare/Voidstar in particular- but then you get hypergates which is a lot of moving, and huttball where it's downright useless since nobody stands in the same place more than two seconds.

 

Anyway- point is- you can have purge and the bubble just fine.... still doesn't stop you from being drowned in debuffs and chain rooted/interrupted.

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It was more a knock on how insane that spec is and how it ruins the fun of PVP.

 

I actually run full vigilance on my jugg and guardian and do very well.

 

The reason I like my current spec (so far) is that I can remove bubbles from multiple targets at once. And usually plenty of people waste their CCs while I'm popping. Being known as a rage jugg sure helps since no one thinks I'd have unstoppable.

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