Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

A month till Onslaught, and still no specific release date?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
A month till Onslaught, and still no specific release date?

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
08.10.2019 , 11:40 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post

1) there will be bugs that I don't think the PTS will identify; and

2) a few balancing tweaks here and there over the next few weeks on the PTS will in no way stop the chaotic deluge of balance issues we will uncover as we play the game.

Assuming no absolute game breaking bugs, which they won't identify regardless of when it is releases, it makes sense to release as scheduled, or shortly thereafter.

Dasty
The PTS hasn't been up for nearly enough time for most bugs to be found. They are changing so many things, and as we all know, a change to one little thing can have a ripple effect breaking many others.

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
08.10.2019 , 12:30 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
The PTS hasn't been up for nearly enough time for most bugs to be found. They are changing so many things, and as we all know, a change to one little thing can have a ripple effect breaking many others.
Where we disagree, which is fine, is that you think the PTS will be able to identify those bugs. I am highly dubious. It is August 10th already; it is clear the PTS is designed for tweaking numbers -- at best. I'm concerned about the bugs (not balance) that will inevitably creep up once we start playing the game. I don't think the PTS is capable of identifying those.

The balance issues will be an ongoing issue, as it is for most MMORPGs, though more pronounced here given the small staff.

Hugs,

Dasty

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.10.2019 , 01:25 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Where we disagree, which is fine, is that you think the PTS will be able to identify those bugs. I am highly dubious. It is August 10th already; it is clear the PTS is designed for tweaking numbers -- at best. I'm concerned about the bugs (not balance) that will inevitably creep up once we start playing the game. I don't think the PTS is capable of identifying those.

The balance issues will be an ongoing issue, as it is for most MMORPGs, though more pronounced here given the small staff.

Hugs,

Dasty
I agree. PTS is obviously intended for minor number tweaking at best, major bugs will make it into the expansion (and I doubt they will "creep" up on us so much as be blatantly obvious).

I guess I will say, what is promising, is that I havent seen the massive "hey this isnt working" statements on the PTS threads. (I.e. the whole bound mod/enhancement issue that people were screaming about on PTS that was later announced to have been done... on purpose).

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
08.10.2019 , 06:32 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Where we disagree, which is fine, is that you think the PTS will be able to identify those bugs. I am highly dubious. It is August 10th already; it is clear the PTS is designed for tweaking numbers -- at best. I'm concerned about the bugs (not balance) that will inevitably creep up once we start playing the game. I don't think the PTS is capable of identifying those.

The balance issues will be an ongoing issue, as it is for most MMORPGs, though more pronounced here given the small staff.

Hugs,

Dasty
It's not that I think it will be able to identify some of the bugs, but that it should be able to, if it were kept up longer than a day here and there. It feels like the pts is being used to preview gear changes rather than identify any problems, which is just a waste of all our time. Given how horribly buggy even the most minor of patches have been, I think bug stomping should be a higher priority than it clearly is.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.10.2019 , 08:47 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
It's not that I think it will be able to identify some of the bugs, but that it should be able to, if it were kept up longer than a day here and there. It feels like the pts is being used to preview gear changes rather than identify any problems, which is just a waste of all our time. Given how horribly buggy even the most minor of patches have been, I think bug stomping should be a higher priority than it clearly is.
100% agree

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
08.10.2019 , 09:16 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
It's not that I think it will be able to identify some of the bugs, but that it should be able to, if it were kept up longer than a day here and there. It feels like the pts is being used to preview gear changes rather than identify any problems, which is just a waste of all our time. Given how horribly buggy even the most minor of patches have been, I think bug stomping should be a higher priority than it clearly is.
Like Trixxie, I also 100% agree. The problem is:

Shoulda, coulda, woulda!

Dasty

P.S. On a more serious note, I'm more worried about "bugs" breaking the game like what happened a while back when -- if you chose one option for Koth, you simply could not progress in the game. Ditto with the Vette bug. Those are game breaking.

Sure, if using a certain gear set destabilizes the game, then the PTS servers a purpose. I just don't think those are where the game breaking bugs will be found. Nor do I think that postponing it two weeks or a month will do squat.

No harm, no foul. Plenty of people have disagreed with me before. You and Trixxie aren't the first and I doubt you will be the last.

Hugs,

Dasty

Tashia's Avatar


Tashia
08.10.2019 , 10:14 PM | #37
as someone has already said here ...
I too am saying October --
if not then, then not November ( interferes with other new SW game coming out );
if not October, nor November --- <sigh> next year ( Holiday vacation is December through January, remember )

and I too hope it is September or October, otherwise ... well, there you are, I am sure you can see the patterns ( and they are not good ones)
Everquest to Star Wars Old Republic .....
from Swords and Shields to Blasters and Rockets .......

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.10.2019 , 10:31 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Like Trixxie, I also 100% agree. The problem is:

Shoulda, coulda, woulda!

Dasty

P.S. On a more serious note, I'm more worried about "bugs" breaking the game like what happened a while back when -- if you chose one option for Koth, you simply could not progress in the game. Ditto with the Vette bug. Those are game breaking.

Sure, if using a certain gear set destabilizes the game, then the PTS servers a purpose. I just don't think those are where the game breaking bugs will be found. Nor do I think that postponing it two weeks or a month will do squat.

No harm, no foul. Plenty of people have disagreed with me before. You and Trixxie aren't the first and I doubt you will be the last.

Hugs,

Dasty
In the old days of PC game testing I used to do paid closed beta and that was the only type of testing done till open beta testing started to be a thing with increased internet speed. (They used to have to send me out disc’s with the game data on them).

Beta testing wasn’t just a few hours of play before the new discs, nor was it a week. I think the fastest I ever got beta updates was about 2 weeks. In that time I had to play on average 30-40 hours to find balance issues or bugs and try and provide feed back daily.

When internet speed increased and data downloads were not as expensive, it moved into weekly downloads unless a big mistake was identified early and fixed.
Now I’m sure Bioware have internal closed beta, but the problem is it has to be small scale or extremely limited because the amount of stupid bugs that make it live are bad and they would have been identified in the old days early on.

Other games run open beta for many months to iron out bugs and this is what Bioware need to do on the PTS if they want to eliminate them and not spend lots of money on closed beta. Or they need to expand the closed beta program to include more players from in the game.

The PTS is the perfect environment to do this. But Bioware don’t utilise this resource properly. Testing a change for one to two days is not enough unless you have 100s of people testing because it comes down to how many hours are put into that testing and most thorough testers will put in 4-6 hours of actual play time a day and spend many other hours documenting bugs or issues to report.

What surprises me is they pull down a PTS build just as the weekend starts and not put it back up till mid next week. It makes more sense to leave it up all weekend because more people have the time to test, even if Bioware are fixing bugs over the weekend in the next build.

They should leave the PTS up until they are ready to deploy the next build. Not pull it down for half a week or a full week. The more time people have to test, the more bugs and constructive feed back can be given to them. Pulling it after a few days is really a bit of a joke because that isn’t enough time to test. This is why the PTS won’t find bugs.

As I’ve pointed out, testers don’t work under “crunch time” development schedules like Bioware pushes on their dev teams, especially unpaid testers.

The PTS is under utilised because, any and all changes should have started to appear on the PTS early June and patches should have been applied as new changes to the builds were made, they shouldn’t need to take it off line.
Not using it this way is why the PTS is useless for detecting bugs. Bioware keep making the same mistakes in this game’s development and never seem to learn from the mistakes of old.

It just annoys me that they use live play to bug test 99% of the game and not the PTS where it should be tested. That is why I think it needs more time and is being rushed. They could put a prelaunch beta on the PTS for real testing around the timing they’ve proposed for live launch and then run it for 2-3 weeks and have an extra 3 weeks after testing and during testing to identify and fix as much as possible. Then a mostly smooth and issue free live launch in November and not a “problem child” launch in September.

Regardless, I’ve unsubbed due to other issues I’m having with Bioware’s CS. WoW classic now has me focused at the moment and I’ve been server load testing and bug testing before the launch in a few weeks.
I will of course keep reading these forums regarding the expansion, but I won’t be resubbing unless and until Bioware have it running smoothly and my CS issues are sorted out. I won’t pay for two game subs at a time because I dedicate myself fully to a game and stick with it. I don’t bounce back and forth.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
08.10.2019 , 10:55 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
In the old days of PC game testing I used to do paid closed beta and that was the only type of testing done till open beta testing started to be a thing with increased internet speed. (They used to have to send me out disc’s with the game data on them).

Beta testing wasn’t just a few hours of play before the new discs, nor was it a week. I think the fastest I ever got beta updates was about 2 weeks. In that time I had to play on average 30-40 hours to find balance issues or bugs and try and provide feed back daily.

When internet speed increased and data downloads were not as expensive, it moved into weekly downloads unless a big mistake was identified early and fixed.
Now I’m sure Bioware have internal closed beta, but the problem is it has to be small scale or extremely limited because the amount of stupid bugs that make it live are bad and they would have been identified in the old days early on.

Other games run open beta for many months to iron out bugs and this is what Bioware need to do on the PTS if they want to eliminate them and not spend lots of money on closed beta. Or they need to expand the closed beta program to include more players from in the game.

The PTS is the perfect environment to do this. But Bioware don’t utilise this resource properly. Testing a change for one to two days is not enough unless you have 100s of people testing because it comes down to how many hours are put into that testing and most thorough testers will put in 4-6 hours of actual play time a day and spend many other hours documenting bugs or issues to report.

What surprises me is they pull down a PTS build just as the weekend starts and not put it back up till mid next week. It makes more sense to leave it up all weekend because more people have the time to test, even if Bioware are fixing bugs over the weekend in the next build.

They should leave the PTS up until they are ready to deploy the next build. Not pull it down for half a week or a full week. The more time people have to test, the more bugs and constructive feed back can be given to them. Pulling it after a few days is really a bit of a joke because that isn’t enough time to test. This is why the PTS won’t find bugs.

As I’ve pointed out, testers don’t work under “crunch time” development schedules like Bioware pushes on their dev teams, especially unpaid testers.

The PTS is under utilised because, any and all changes should have started to appear on the PTS early June and patches should have been applied as new changes to the builds were made, they shouldn’t need to take it off line.
Not using it this way is why the PTS is useless for detecting bugs. Bioware keep making the same mistakes in this game’s development and never seem to learn from the mistakes of old.

It just annoys me that they use live play to bug test 99% of the game and not the PTS where it should be tested. That is why I think it needs more time and is being rushed. They could put a prelaunch beta on the PTS for real testing around the timing they’ve proposed for live launch and then run it for 2-3 weeks and have an extra 3 weeks after testing and during testing to identify and fix as much as possible. Then a mostly smooth and issue free live launch in November and not a “problem child” launch in September.

Regardless, I’ve unsubbed due to other issues I’m having with Bioware’s CS. WoW classic now has me focused at the moment and I’ve been server load testing and bug testing before the launch in a few weeks.
I will of course keep reading these forums regarding the expansion, but I won’t be resubbing unless and until Bioware have it running smoothly and my CS issues are sorted out. I won’t pay for two game subs at a time because I dedicate myself fully to a game and stick with it. I don’t bounce back and forth.
Strongly agree. Also, timeline of things feels like they're way behind. IIRC, they indicated on the livestream something like a couple months ago (I forget when exactly the livestream was) that they wanted to get stuff on PTS so they'd have time to take feedback into account. But it's been so slow and on there for such a short period of time, it feels like a practical joke.

And if you're pointing this stuff out, with no insider knowledge on the game, I would imagine some devs working on the game are thinking it too.

I doubt they will extend the release date beyond September because of complications to do with contracts and funding and all the lovely stuff to do with being beholden to a game publisher, along with possibly some shareholder laws relating to when they are expected to deliver the product based on advertising and the expected profits to come with it. But it sure seems like they need to.
Clicky referral link for freebies, read how referral works.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.10.2019 , 11:18 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
based on advertising.
What advertising? I’ve seen no formal advertising.

This is another thing that bugs me. They don’t advertise the game and we all wonder why it’s not as popular as some other games that do.