Jump to content

On "Need" loot rolls.


Recommended Posts

Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

 

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

 

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.

"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class

"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec

"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class

" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec

" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class

Edited by shyninja
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bioware needs to change this anarchy lootsystem where everyone can roll on everything.

 

The basic rule is that if you can equip it and benefit from it (most with a IQ of 35 or more understands that you let the tank have the tank gear and healer healinggear and so on) the item is yours to needroll on if your character is in the instance can use it. If the item will be used in some other way like for a complanion, to sell it, to eat it, to let it collect dust in the bank the greed roll should be used, or pass.

 

Some guilds tend to set up special lootrules that are based on progression, a tank benefits more from having tank items and healer healer items.

 

This has gotten out of hand completely, last night I got kicked from a team by simply asking politely why a pistol using merc took a lightsaber with needroll. I got called lots of names and ofcourse I reported it for Bioware to let them see how bad the community has become.

 

Need rolls has to be blocked form players that cant handle the difference of need/greed/pass

 

So many other MMOs has done it with great success, why should The old Republic still live in the stoneage when it is such a simple thing to change.

 

After all we all wants to get along and get new friends, arguing about a unclear lootsystem are creating more war then peace. I know that for a fact since launch.

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

 

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

 

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.

"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class

"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec

"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class

" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec

" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class

 

If a piece is a major upgrade for both a tank and a dps in a flashpoint, there is something seriously wrong with their gear (As fps only drop 51/56 xeno/exo pieces). If the gearis for lower levels (sub 50), secondary stats matter less and it becomes less clear.

 

Responses to other points:

 

-Field Respec: you can roll need only on your current spec and role fufilled in the group (if you join as dps, you roll as dps). Needing for offspec without group consent is ninja looting (unless you are the only one of your class, though this holds less for endgame items)

- Secondary stats: As you get to end game content, you will realize the importance of secondary stats. You should only roll for the secondary stats of your class. If a dps wants "extra endurance and defense" after hitting level 50 they should be kicked.

-If certain mods are an upgrade needing is okay only if 1.) It is your mainstat and 2.) there is not someone else in the group who is more suited for the item

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh, how do you propose we do that?

 

Bioware can simply implement a system that allows those characters that can equip the item and benefit from it be able to roll need.

 

The other classes will be able to greed on the item. If a item contain a mod that someone in the team wants then the best way to get it is by using communication, if the mod is reasonable for the character I am sure he/she will recieve it.

 

Many posts here on the forum simply consists of players not knowing how to use the different need/greed/pass options, and for that I refer to the search function. You will find thousands of posts and hundreds of threads regarding the flawed lootdistribution in The old Republic.

 

If you have a specific question regarding this please write and I will try to explain

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

 

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

 

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.

"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class

"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec

"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class

" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec

" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class

 

This is a no brainer.....

First, your example makes it clear that everyone understands the diffrence between dps and tank gear. So lets carry on with that perspective.

Dps item drops

If the dps rolls need, the off spec person rolls greed or pass. Leave it for them.

If the dps rolls greed, the off spec is courteous and asks if rolling for off spec is OK. Other courteous party members say "sure".

Its so simple. Unfortunetly not all groups have courteous people in them. But, if you follow those easy rules, you are the better person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While leveling, this is less clear since there aren't any items with defense/shield/absorb available on them until later levels, and even then you need to craft it unless you run a ton of FPs since they're still not available from vendors (including commendation vendors) until about 40 (belsavis). Main spec always have priority though, so if a item with tank stats drops the tank always have priority, but if you're in the level range where tanking stats aren't available the tanks don't have any choice but to wear "DPS" gear as well, so they can roll on everything too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While leveling, this is less clear since there aren't any items with defense/shield/absorb available on them until later levels, and even then you need to craft it unless you run a ton of FPs since they're still not available from vendors (including commendation vendors) until about 40 (belsavis). Main spec always have priority though, so if a item with tank stats drops the tank always have priority, but if you're in the level range where tanking stats aren't available the tanks don't have any choice but to wear "DPS" gear as well, so they can roll on everything too.

 

The problem with ToR loosystem is not the different needrolls that the characters from the same class do, the BIG problem is players from other classes needing on items they can´t use.

 

Communication solve almost every time if a piece of heavy armor str head with defensive stats drops and both a dps jugg and a tank jugg are present. The team will let the tank specced juggernaut have the item, that is pure common sense.

 

The problem occur when the trooper for example in the team decides that the heavy armor str head is equal his and he has to have it and presses need. The trooper have no use for it, he cant let a companion have it, the only thing he can do is either sell it or let it collect dust in the bank,

This has been discussed so many times in so many threads that Bioware really has to let us know if they are working on it, player feedback is important they say. The community screams for a answer regarding this in hundreds of threads and thousands of posts.

 

Let us know once and for all if we are preaching to deaf ears here, please!!

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with ToR loosystem is not the different needrolls that the characters from the same class do, the BIG problem is players from other classes needing on items they can´t use.

 

Communication solve almost every time if a piece of heavy armor str head with defensive stats drops and both a dps jugg and a tank jugg are present. The team will let the tank specced juggernaut have the item, that is pure common sense.

 

The problem occur when the trooper for example in the team decides that the heavy armor str head is equal his and he has to have it and presses need. The trooper have no use for it, he cant let a companion have it, the only thing he can do is either sell it or let it collect dust in the bank,

This has been discussed so many times in so many threads that Bioware really has to let us know if they are working on it, player feedback is important they say. The community screams for a answer regarding this in hundreds of threads and thousands of posts.

 

Let us know once and for all if we are preaching to deaf ears here, please!!

 

And they already have. Working as intended, they said, over a year ago.

 

However, people won't bother to use the search function, and they keep making the same thread over and over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And they already have. Working as intended, they said, over a year ago.

 

However, people won't bother to use the search function, and they keep making the same thread over and over again.

 

First a few things :

 

1. Provide proof that they have said that because it is to my knowledge not true. I would also like to know if that person that said that even work at Bioware, they have lost ALOT of DEVs. They even argued a bit regarding the implementation of a extra button hence the need/greed, I think that is something they simply left unfinished. Need/greed was not available when ToR launched for example.

 

2. Things said over a year ago is not set in stone. Remember when the groupfinder was about to be created, they said they were against it since they wanted the community to build teams of their own. Guess what, it didn´t happen and players flew away like flies. So they had to create it.

 

3. Players do use the searchfunction, but in most cases there is always a new angle to the problem, there are hundreds of them with this flawed lootsystem. This forum proves that. No thread is exactly the same and adress exactly the same problem, read yourself and you will see.

 

You can always identify a real problem by watching the forums. If a certain problem return over and over again and then some more something has to be done. This is not a forum where players write only because they "want to feel special" this is a forum where we are supposed to give Bioware feedback and let THEM know how WE feel.

 

I have a good perspective of this game since I have followed it along time. My account creation date is 02.01.09 and I have been around since launch.

 

I acknowledge this anarchy lootsystem as a problem since it creates alot of conflicts in the game. A true gamer that cares for both the game and the community writes what he/she feels here on the forum in a constructive way.

 

The playerbase will continue to create threads that contain different problems with the lootsystem until Bioware acknowledges the problem and implement a solution in a future patch.

 

We will see players create alot more threads about situations that could be avoided with a common sense lootsystem over and over and then some more that I am 100% certain of.

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ignore and boot them

 

Yes that is what happens. A player knowingly or not knowingly ninjas a item and ends up on ignorelists and gets kicked off the team.

 

Conflict created and friends lost

 

Biowares anarchy lootsystem in a nutshell

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bioware needs to change this anarchy lootsystem where everyone can roll on everything.

 

The basic rule is that if you can equip it and benefit from it (most with a IQ of 35 or more understands that you let the tank have the tank gear and healer healinggear and so on) the item is yours to needroll on if your character is in the instance can use it. If the item will be used in some other way like for a complanion, to sell it, to eat it, to let it collect dust in the bank the greed roll should be used, or pass.

 

Some guilds tend to set up special lootrules that are based on progression, a tank benefits more from having tank items and healer healer items.

 

This has gotten out of hand completely, last night I got kicked from a team by simply asking politely why a pistol using merc took a lightsaber with needroll. I got called lots of names and ofcourse I reported it for Bioware to let them see how bad the community has become.

 

Need rolls has to be blocked form players that cant handle the difference of need/greed/pass

 

So many other MMOs has done it with great success, why should The old Republic still live in the stoneage when it is such a simple thing to change.

 

After all we all wants to get along and get new friends, arguing about a unclear lootsystem are creating more war then peace. I know that for a fact since launch.

 

Well, put! I've seen this growing worse ever since F2P.... When I see a player in a Flashpoint without a Legacy name these days it's fills me full of dread. You just know what's going to happen.... need I say more?

 

I understand the need to get some new blood.. but the f2p model is just not Flashpoint friendly. I hate to say it, but can we please have a similar/same system as most other MMOs, or even WoW...... THe only issues I see, is that you would not be able to roll on companion loot if every one passes or greeds... which also bring me to those that need for their companion, even when there's a class that needs it on the group!

Edited by nite_shade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the current system is fine. There are a lot of different ways to define need. For myself, I consider need to be making use of the item in some way other than vendoring. That doesn't mean I recklessly hit need on everything that drops (actually I rarely run flashpoints or group finder so it doesn't come up much) - if the item is important to someone of course I will pass.

 

Now some people are proposing solutions to make the system better. I see two approaches people are taking: (a) restricting loot rolls, and (b) creating more roll options like "need for companion", etc. I see enough problems with both to reject them.

 

Restricting loot rolls not only makes a lot of people annoyed it actually doesn't solve the problem in the first place! People will be annoyed because they may be looking for certain mods, or a certain look, or gear for companions, or crafting materials, or they like the name/icon of the item or any other reason under the sun. To me any of those reasons are valid to need on an item. I am not saying that they are more important than gearing up but the option should exist for having a reasonable shot at the item. As for solving problems this proposal simply doesn't stand up. Consider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item. Oops the system just failed at it's goal. Ok so now we include an item level check. But of course we have all seen where the next tiers itemization makes it worse than the current tier. So now the poor marauder is stuck with a higher item level crappy gear and can't roll on a better one. It would also be impossible to "side-grade" for a different itemization.

 

As for creating more loot roll options, well this quickly turns into a mess. Is main-toon off-spec higher priority than third-alt main-spec? What about second-alt off-spec vs. main-toon companion. Yuck! Keep me out of that mess.

 

I actually liked the original story mode loot system. You got to see all the awesome loot that dropped and no arguments over who gets what because it's all pre-assigned. Unfortunately some people couldn't handle not winning loot and there were enough complaints to get that changed.

 

Anyways I would suggest to all people who want to avoid drama - please talk it out with the other people in the group. Sure there may be the occasional idiot but the vast majority of people are happy to pass on loot if you let them know you want it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for solving problems this proposal simply doesn't stand up. Consider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item. Oops the system just failed at it's goal. Ok so now we include an item level check. But of course we have all seen where the next tiers itemization makes it worse than the current tier. So now the poor marauder is stuck with a higher item level crappy gear and can't roll on a better one. It would also be impossible to "side-grade" for a different itemization.

.

 

The problem with item level checking is that it incentivizes over geared characters to put on crappy gear to have a shot at lower level items. Also, on my 63 geared main, I often put on columi gear when pugging if the group looks potentially undergeared (reduces my repair costs).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IConsider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item.

 

The system will not be bullitproof but a dread geared marauder is probably more concerned about his reputation then be called out a ninja for taking something he has no use for. If you have come so far into the game you are well aware the difference between columni and dread guard equipment.

 

IAs for creating more loot roll options, well this quickly turns into a mess. Is main-toon off-spec higher priority than third-alt main-spec? What about second-alt off-spec vs. main-toon companion. Yuck! Keep me out of that mess.

 

They system I am proposing does not take spec into account at all. A trooper can roll on heavy aim loot and a shadow can roll need on willpower light armour and so on. The rest can be handled by common sense within the group if needed. I am sure a dps will not deny a tank specc a item or a dps a healer a item.

 

 

I actually liked the original story mode loot system. You got to see all the awesome loot that dropped and no arguments over who gets what because it's all pre-assigned. Unfortunately some people couldn't handle not winning loot and there were enough complaints to get that changed.

 

I was there, I looted stuff this way. I can´t say I support it but it was one way of solving it

 

IAnyways I would suggest to all people who want to avoid drama - please talk it out with the other people in the group. Sure there may be the occasional idiot but the vast majority of people are happy to pass on loot if you let them know you want it .

 

This is not how reality works nowdays. Only a few nights ago I got kicked and insulted badly for simply asking why a pistol user needed on a lightsaber (Bioware has all the facts, the logs and report). Some players seems to think all players lives in a fluffy dreamworld where everyone understands eachother frorm the start and can set ground rules, but they are rarely kept and players that you do not know can´t be trusted by default. Alot of posts bring this matter to attention aswell with the need of a secure tradewindow (but that is another story).

 

By simply changing the lootsystem to common sense the community will avoid alot of grief. I respect those that wants to be able to loot everything but I still do not understand why. Is it by some wierd personal gain that every item belong to them, or some wierd esoterical interpretation of freedom of looting.

 

It will never make sense to me how items clearly designed for a class has equal possibliity to end up with someone that has absolutly no use for it, and some even admit they use need to grief other players from getting the loot they need to gear up.

 

This community clearly needs rules how loot is divided, I wonder if Bioware gets amused when they read how mad some of the players get in their posts. Who knows, I still have faith in this game and in Bioware but regarding this matter the community really deserves a answer. I wonder how long we as a community has to wait until someone at Bioware finally wakes up and gives us a decent answer.

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been discussed so many times in so many threads

 

It has indeed, and every time you jump in there with that suggestions. I agree with it, but this thread was asking for our opinions on loot etiquette - not complaining about ninjas nor trying to figure out a way to get rid of them, so leave that debate to one of the other thousand threads for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has indeed, and every time you jump in there with that suggestions. I agree with it, but this thread was asking for our opinions on loot etiquette - not complaining about ninjas nor trying to figure out a way to get rid of them, so leave that debate to one of the other thousand threads for it.

 

My point in writing that is to remind Bioware to read up on what the community writes here on their forum. So far we have heard nothing, not even a slightest comment regarding this.

 

My posts are always within what is discussed in the topic eventhough I might challenge the thought sometimes, but that is only an old habit since I teach at a university.

 

I can tell you what, they day Bioware comments on the lootproblem and how to change it in a constructive way I will stop refer to the thousands of posts the community has made that Bioware seems to be ignoring to read.

 

Now lets continue discussing this thread

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The loot system cannot be left as it is. F2Ps are rolling need on everything. Ofc ingore and boot, but the system must be changed to Need only on class appropriate gear.

 

I was F2P for about a day before I picked up a sub, before I had even run Black Talon. But aren't F2P players limited on the number of rolls they can do per day? Makes sense, I suppose, that they would want to maximize their "take" even if they can only sell it to junk vendor.

 

Why not just ask the group prior to or during a roll? Ex: "Anyone mind if I need on that for companion?" or "off-spec" or "for the mods." If something drops that no one else can really use, or they already have it, why not just ask?

 

I have yet to be told "no"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was F2P for about a day before I picked up a sub, before I had even run Black Talon. But aren't F2P players limited on the number of rolls they can do per day? Makes sense, I suppose, that they would want to maximize their "take" even if they can only sell it to junk vendor.

 

Why not just ask the group prior to or during a roll? Ex: "Anyone mind if I need on that for companion?" or "off-spec" or "for the mods." If something drops that no one else can really use, or they already have it, why not just ask?

 

I have yet to be told "no"

 

You must be very new to this game. Welcome to The old Republic, you have one of the the highest registration numbers I have seen so far 6,329,218. It fills me with joy that you still not have experienced the downside of the lootsystem, but believe me you will in the future.

 

Keep up the good work and always communicate with the group you are playing with if something is unclear :tran_cool:

Edited by Icestar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Restricting loot rolls not only makes a lot of people annoyed it actually doesn't solve the problem in the first place! People will be annoyed because they may be looking for certain mods, or a certain look, or gear for companions, or crafting materials, or they like the name/icon of the item or any other reason under the sun. To me any of those reasons are valid to need on an item. I am not saying that they are more important than gearing up but the option should exist for having a reasonable shot at the item. As for solving problems this proposal simply doesn't stand up. Consider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item. Oops the system just failed at it's goal. Ok so now we include an item level check. But of course we have all seen where the next tiers itemization makes it worse than the current tier. So now the poor marauder is stuck with a higher item level crappy gear and can't roll on a better one. It would also be impossible to "side-grade" for a different itemization.

 

I have to disagree, "Liking the name or look of a piece of gear" does not qualify for needing when someone in the group has a spec that can use it and it is an upgrade for them. The option DOES exist for having a resonable shot at gear if those are your goals, group with friends or start a group with the intention of getting said gear, rather than joining a group and needing on something for purely superficial or roleplay reasons when a group member can actually use it and benefit from it.

 

 

As for creating more loot roll options, well this quickly turns into a mess. Is main-toon off-spec higher priority than third-alt main-spec? What about second-alt off-spec vs. main-toon companion. Yuck! Keep me out of that mess.

 

I think you're taking the priority roll suggestion way too far, I don't know of any game that takes it to the levels you're suggesting here, the system looks at your current class/specialization and allows you to roll need if the gear matches it, solves a lot of the current issues and if nobody needs it everyone can just greed on it, simple and efficient.

 

*clipped*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't remember the last time I queue'ed for a HM FP :( I used to do it everyday but now it is like.... You either get:

 

1. Ninja Looter

2. 'Gotta get it done in 10 minutes so I can afk on fleet 'Leroy

3. Wrong Role/Doesn't know Role

4. Elitist Jerk that will kick you for the SMALLEST mistake.

 

:(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...