Isn't it always?

 

Taking odds now on whether there will be NO changes from current PTS build when 2.0 launches, as well as odds on there being changes, but all of them being negative.

My $ is on changes that have an unforeseen (negative) impact on Mando/Mercs. They'll try, but they'll base their change on metrics and it'll fail.

My $ is on changes that have an unforeseen (negative) impact on Mando/Mercs. They'll try, but they'll base their change on metrics and it'll fail.

They'll base their changes on who the hell knows what. I'm still pretty sure they'll be negative though.

odds on no changes: 3:1

odds on Merc/Mando changes: 1000:1

odds on Merc/Mando changes actually making the class viable: 3720:1

I don't think the odds against merc/commando changes are that bad.

I don't think the odds against them making changes that make us viable are that good.

How about as a prize for winning Season 1 of RWZ, the winner gets to play a team of devs composed of one from each AC every day for a month. After that I think the devs would have a better idea about the viability of the classes.

Alternatively, the devs can hire ringers to play for them but their team must still have one of each AC.

For those who missed it:

I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

 

The following changes are going out in 2.0 and won't be making it onto PTS.

 

Bounty Hunter

Mercenary

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Arsenal:

-Tracer Missile: The Heat Signature applied by Tracer Missile now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Heat Signature effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Heatseeker Missiles: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Heat Signature. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Heat Signature effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Tracer Missile.

-Light 'Em Up: No longer affects Heat Signatures applied by Tracer Missile.

 

Trooper

Commando

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Gunnery:

-Grav Round: The Gravity Vortex applied by Grav Round now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Gravity Vortex effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Demolition Round: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Gravity Vortex. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Gravity Vortex effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Grav Round.

-Gravity Surge: No longer affects Gravity Vortices applied by Grav Round.

Thoughts: Nice small QoL buff in PVE, and even in PVP there are some not total crap benefits. Doubt it will make us ranked viable, but I can't really see any downside, so that's a nice change.

Any changes that aren't effective nerfs is a win for us.

All betting now closed.

For those who missed it:

 

 

 

 

Thoughts: Nice small QoL buff in PVE, and even in PVP there are some not total crap benefits. Doubt it will make us ranked viable, but I can't really see any downside, so that's a nice change.

 

Any changes that aren't effective nerfs is a win for us.

 

All betting now closed.

Do these buffs make merc alot better? I thought that the problem was the cast times and mobility. These changes make me feel better about playing a sniper now.

Do these buffs make merc alot better? I thought that the problem was the cast times and mobility. These changes make me feel better about playing a sniper now.

Sniper all the way. Merc Pyro wasn't a great counter to snipers, but they did better vs. snipers than Arsenal did. Now Merc Pyro is kaputt. There is really nothing holding back snipers now. Some people might claim that stealth classes are a good counter to snipers, but once you start having multiple snipers able to cover each other this is questionable. Even solo, consider the mid part of the Civil War map - the sniper can easily cover any approach up the ramp. Who is going to counter him?

This is interesting. Now that I don't HAVE to shoot 3 tracers to get the full benefit in PvP...

I think I'm smelling a wicked sexy hybrid dps spec

This is interesting. Now that I don't HAVE to shoot 3 tracers to get the full benefit in PvP...

 

I think I'm smelling a wicked sexy hybrid dps spec

Why go gybrid...the full tree gonna be awsome know...no?

Do these buffs make merc alot better? I thought that the problem was the cast times and mobility. These changes make me feel better about playing a sniper now.

Not a lot better no. Not even ranked viable really I don't think. As you say the problem was cast reliance and mobility, and while this *sort* of helped with that, its not going to be the difference between ranked viable and not. Really we just get part of our burst out quicker.

Sniper all the way. Merc Pyro wasn't a great counter to snipers, but they did better vs. snipers than Arsenal did. Now Merc Pyro is kaputt. There is really nothing holding back snipers now. Some people might claim that stealth classes are a good counter to snipers, but once you start having multiple snipers able to cover each other this is questionable. Even solo, consider the mid part of the Civil War map - the sniper can easily cover any approach up the ramp. Who is going to counter him?

Honestly, my guess is that the counter to snipers are gonna be other snipers. Distraction knocks people out of cover, one of the few abilities that does, and I think it works against hunker down too which means that you use distraction and then the rest of your team focuses them down now that they can leap to them.

This is interesting. Now that I don't HAVE to shoot 3 tracers to get the full benefit in PvP...

 

I think I'm smelling a wicked sexy hybrid dps spec

Easy there Annie Oakley. You get full armor debuff and you get a fully buffed HSM, but in a hybrid you won't be taking HSM and you still need 3 full casts to get a fully buffed Rail Shot, and that's assuming you take Light em' up.

Lol.

 

I guess me spamming Shatter shot vs Tracer missile really worked.

 

From now on, all my important suggestions will be phrased with a side by side comparison with a sniper skill.

HA! When I first saw the changes that is exactly what I thought. In fact I think I said as much when I responded to that quote in the thread it was posted in. We may be on to something.

This is interesting. Now that I don't HAVE to shoot 3 tracers to get the full benefit in PvP...

 

I think I'm smelling a wicked sexy hybrid dps spec

the only thing different is that the full armor break and full HSM buff is applied with 1 TM.

you still need to fire 3 to fully buff Rail Shot damage. we also need to spam it for barrage procs (or power shot).

so some of our burst potential got moved from the back-end to the front-end. which is a very solid step in the right direction, but if this is the only change coming then Merc will still be bad.

Actually the particular changes they are saying they'll make could probably have gone through in a normal patch no problem. I'm more confused why there was a delay at all.

WOULD have been nice to test it to get a look at some of those unintended consequences which is the result of any change. Who knows? Maybe it WILL make us ranked viable.

Not holding my breath on that one though >_>

Actually the particular changes they are saying they'll make could probably have gone through in a normal patch no problem. I'm more confused why there was a delay at all.

 

WOULD have been nice to test it to get a look at some of those unintended consequences which is the result of any change. Who knows? Maybe it WILL make us ranked viable.

 

Not holding my breath on that one though >_>

yeah, neither am i.

the change is a good step for sure. but how does it change the core mechanic away from "plant feet, pewpew"? we still need to cast tracer missile for barrage procs and to stack Rail Shot damage.

the only real difference now is that our front-loaded burst is not so much of a joke.

yeah, neither am i.

 

the change is a good step for sure. but how does it change the core mechanic away from "plant feet, pewpew"? we still need to cast tracer missile for barrage procs and to stack Rail Shot damage.

 

the only real difference now is that our front-loaded burst is not so much of a joke.

If Charged Bolts also gave Charged Barrel we'd at least be less vulnerable to interrupts since they can't stop both, but yeah you're right otherwise. Asking Gunnery to be anything BUT "plant feet, pewpew" is kind of asking a lot though. I'll take the "plant feet" if I can also "pewpew". In ranked it's more "plant feet, die".

And that also hasn't significantly changed with this imo. We'll see though! I kind of hold out tentative hope that they'll eventually realize TO and RP are on ridiculously long cooldowns for what they do, but that's about it.

If Charged Bolts also gave Charged Barrel we'd at least be less vulnerable to interrupts since they can't stop both, but yeah you're right otherwise. Asking Gunnery to be anything BUT "plant feet, pewpew" is kind of asking a lot though. I'll take the "plant feet" if I can also "pewpew". In ranked it's more "plant feet, die".

 

And that also hasn't significantly changed with this imo. We'll see though! I kind of hold out tentative hope that they'll eventually realize TO and RP are on ridiculously long cooldowns for what they do, but that's about it.

yeah, thats a change that really should be made. when you start to think of what other classes have on short cooldowns, there is just no comparison.

take Entrench. Snipers already have interrupt and leap immunity, so lets give them full CC immunity! with only 40 (25 talented in MM) seconds of downtime!

but Merc's only interrupt-proof ability is on a 120s (90s if talented) cooldown. /facepalm

I keep wondering if Austin Peckinpaugh even knows what class balance is. In PVE Merc/Commando heals is far, far behind the other two. DPS-wise they're probably in worse shape than they appear to be as he himself pointed out in his interview here: http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

In PvP, well...LOL, just LOL.

This has been the case since the 1.2 nerf and he has not changed this in any substantive way.

His JOB, that thing he supposedly spends 40 hours a week doing nominally is to balance 8 ACs, just 8. There are just THREE healing ACs he needs to look at. There are just a few things he needs to understand in PVP, TTK, ability to interrupt/root/snare/CC, burst, and defensive CDs. A very simple chart could be made for this in under 30 minutes to allow him to compare things. He clearly has not done this as he has done nothing to help us out of any substance in just a few weeks short of a year.

To fix the Merc/Commando both heals and DPS wise he'd only need to amke a couple changes:

1. HtL grants INTERRUPT IMMUNITY AS WELL

2. Advanced medical probe instant

3. Shorten the CD on bacta infusion and MAKE IT HIT LIKE A TOP LEVEL TALENT. Every time my full DG commando hits the tank for 2200 with this skill I die a little inside.

4. Drop Electronet to a 30s CD

5. Make reactive shield have a CD more on par with say....every other class. 1.5 minutes or less not this 3 minute nonsense you stupid *********** ****** who can't even do a simple comparison of defensive CDs between classes.

And I don't even get paid for this crap. He does, but hasn't even made a good faith attempt.

well to be honest, this part of his post made a little wary:

Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh

I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

he has a team for brainstorming, but he does everything himself?

well to be honest, this part of his post made a little wary:

 

 

he has a team for brainstorming, but he does everything himself?

Noticed that too did you? It gives me slightly more sympathy for him....but only slightly.

Noticed that too did you? It gives me slightly more sympathy for him....but only slightly.

i wouldnt call my feelings about it sympathetic. it means that every decisions is the direct product of AP. he gets ideas from other folks, but the implementation, testing, balancing, etc is 100% him.

the direction he has personally taken this game has not been good. it doesnt look like its changing anytime soon either.

i wouldnt call my feelings about it sympathetic. it means that every decisions is the direct product of AP. he gets ideas from other folks, but the implementation, testing, balancing, etc is 100% him.

 

the direction he has personally taken this game has not been good. it doesnt look like its changing anytime soon either.

Well by sympathy I mean, holy crap that's just a lot to try and balance all by yourself.

Otherwise I agree with you, because whether he's overworked or just micromanages, the result has been not very good. Explains why classes go untouched for so long. At this point I'm hoping that he's basically been spending the past 5 months trying to get 2.0 balanced and will actually be able to make meaningful changes now with that off his plate instead of having to split time between balancing 2.0 and balancing live.

We've talked about how strong my hopes are though >.>

How can 1 person do all the balancing by themself? Its not going to be possible unless he plays all 8 classes on a regular basis, or did at one time.

"Well, I'm pretty sure this class is ok. I asked my buddy who plays one and he said they are fine."