I literally played 4 warzones in a row, as Republic, and the enemy team was 6 out of 8 Sorcerers. Let me give you an idea of how fun this is...

 

They're all 30m away... They all have knockbacks, ranged stuns, they all snare with their main damage ability, the snares aren't affected by resolve, the snares don't build resolve. When you do catch the sorcerer they have a 150% movement speed run buff to scurry away.

 

The short rant is this... The sorcerer doesn't even need the ability to kite to be frustratingly hard to kill, while doing very good damage, and yet they have all the tools they need to kite someone endlessly.

 

I'm not stupid, I realize that 6 of any class is going to be frustrating. Once I joined a warzone that had 4 operatives in it working together pre-operative nerf. It was nightmarish to watch them vaporize the entire enemy team, but hey I'd rather have that than the 6 sorcerer unkillable. Focus one, he runs away, switch to another, he runs away.... It's pointless!

 

Healing is too powerful, sorcerer bubble is too strong, global cooldown is too long to sufficiently burst someone coupled with the resource mechanics in this game.

 

Irregardless of the fact that ranged has too extreme an advantage without a single disadvantage. Maybe line of sight, but in Ilum that matters how? There's a few spots on the first part of voidstar to LoS but otherwise not enough for me to care about trying to humor the idea. Sort of pointless to hide behind a way, good way to kill your enemy....

Edited February 23, 2012 by Caribroo

I'm bad because I can't force my GCD to be faster, my attacks to reach farther, hit harder, while I remain immune to snares, while rooting my enemy, and stopping all incoming heals from the other 5 people healing/bubbling/koltoshelling + their warzone medpack.

 

Oh wait, I'll get some teammates to help out and burn this guy down! What's this? He now has guard on him too? Meanwhile as we chase this one guy around, the other 7 are blasting our faces off. Well **** we can't have that, better go after them! Now the first guy is back to blasting some more face, and the cycle of kiting continues.

 

Range ought to do less damage for having range.... I mean why even have melee?

 

What do melee excel at? What do melee excel at? What do melee excel at?

 

Bioware nerfed Operative/Scoundrel, then Surge, and I'll be some other form of damage/burst nerf is coming too because they want fights to last longer. Well in my opinion they have made it so the fight can literally go on forever under pretty common circumstances.

 

No I don't play OP/Scoundrel, I play Shadow, I just like having them on my team because they can bring the hurt really quickly.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Caribroo

Spamming lightning is pretty hard, bro.

 

They have to like, pew a little. And a pew pew here, and a pew pew there.

 

And actually, melee are quite good. The melee classes in this game are *********** amazing if you aren't terrible.

Edited February 23, 2012 by MashTactics

It's pretty easy to look at some classes and see they're overpowered.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives had tons of people screaming for nerfs. What I don't get is how people are bringing up legitimate concerns, and yet so far very little has been change. At least not in the very sweeping way that Scoundrel/Operatives were hit.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

And actually, melee are quite good. The melee classes in this game are *********** amazing if you aren't terrible.

 

The only plus of melee is that their attacks are instant casts. Plenty of instant cast in the ranged classes as well though.

 

I think that the DPS classes should have certain abilities that don't trigger GCD, to string together attacks and develop more burst to make up for their super short range. SW/JK retaliation for example.

 

There are far more ways to modify the generic character's defenses by healing/guarding/shields/defensive cooldowns than there are for offense. I would like more offensive cooldowns for melee. Consular (Shadow) has a 1 minute 30 second cooldown buff that gives 60% crit chance to 2 force attacks. That is 'the offensive cooldown.' Not very impressive. What do Marauder/Sentinel get? Umm... Anybody?

Edited February 23, 2012 by Caribroo

The only plus of melee is that their attacks are instant casts. Plenty of instant cast in the ranged classes as well though.

 

I think that the DPS classes should have certain abilities that don't trigger GCD, to string together attacks and develop more burst.

 

You realize that this would make melee dps classes unstoppable, right?

 

In a 1v1, they'd never lose if their ALREADY instant cast rotation didn't obey the GCD. Get rid of cooldowns like guarded by the force, and I'm okay with that, though.

Edited February 23, 2012 by MashTactics

You realize that this would make melee dps classes unstoppable, right?

 

In a 1v1, they'd never lose if their ALREADY instant cast rotation didn't obey the GCD. Get rid of cooldowns like guarded by the force, and I'm okay with that, though.

 

If they just didn't have GCD? Yeah that would be retarded and not what I was saying.

If they just didn't have GCD? Yeah that would be retarded and not what I was saying.

 

You want to increase burst damage on classes that already have retardedly high burst damage. That's the point of an instant cast rotation; burst damage.

 

Not to mention that now you'd have huge burst damage with DoT's thrown on top with many melee classes.

 

But seriously. If you're going to do this, make force leap a 25 second cooldown like my knockback. And while we're at it, we may as well toss away the interrupt.

Healing is too powerful, sorcerer bubble is too strong, global cooldown is too long to sufficiently burst someone coupled with the resource mechanics in this game.

 

Strange. 30% less healing in Warzones (in combat), coupled with Power giving less healing than damage, but it's still "overpowered", because that's just the way it is.. I wonder why healers even die when focused? It's an outrage if they do!

 

Static Field is obviously too strong as well. I mean, being able to shield the damage from 1-2 attacks is outrageous! Heck, it's even better than the 10% "constant" damage reduction Mercenaries and Commandos get, or their immunity to interrupts. I'm mad, damn it!

 

And burst damage, don't even get me started on burst damage! I tried to burst this guy yesterday, and he wouldn't die. Grrrr...

 

Seriously. I get that you're frustrated about losing and that you feel it's only because of Sorcerers (Sages are fine?) when that's what you primarily face in a Warzone (I usually see Commandos/Vanguards all over the place, but that's just me). This isn't a "L2P" commentary either, but could it be possible that you're exaggerating a bit. That, maybe, you're remembering your losses and not your wins?

You want to increase burst damage on classes that already have retardedly high burst damage. That's the point of an instant cast rotation; burst damage.

 

Not to mention that now you'd have huge burst damage with DoT's thrown on top with many melee classes.

 

But seriously. If you're going to do this, make force leap a 25 second cooldown like my knockback. And while we're at it, we may as well toss away the interrupt.

 

For one, ranged classes in general have pretty much the same burst if not more than melee classes. Mercenaries have the highest burst damage in the game and snipers are right behind them.

 

 

Instant cast rotations don't mean you've got high burst, in general chaining a cast with an instant cast (like TM -> HSM) lets you achieve more burst in a single hit than any single attack in the game.

 

4k tracers and 6k HSMs can hit at the exact same time, and as far as I know there isn't a single class that can crit for 10k with a single attack.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Aidank

The only plus of melee is that their attacks are instant casts. Plenty of instant cast in the ranged classes as well though.

 

I think that the DPS classes should have certain abilities that don't trigger GCD, to string together attacks and develop more burst to make up for their super short range. SW/JK retaliation for example.

 

There are far more ways to modify the generic character's defenses by healing/guarding/shields/defensive cooldowns than there are for offense. I would like more offensive cooldowns for melee. Consular (Shadow) has a 1 minute 30 second cooldown buff that gives 60% crit chance to 2 force attacks. That is 'the offensive cooldown.' Not very impressive. What do Marauder/Sentinel get? Umm... Anybody?

 

The big problem in this game is, that casting a spell is just way too easy. In <game that shall not be named> if a melee is whacking at a mage, there's no way the mage wouldd be trying to get a spell off.

 

Interrupts need to lock out everything, not just one spell. Right now only class that is properly punished for getting kicked is healing operative/scoundrel. Just kick his UM, and unless he has upper hand, he's as good as dead because he doesn't have any heals to cast. If you try to do that to sorc or bh, they will just cast another heal...

It's pretty easy to look at some classes and see they're overpowered.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives had tons of people screaming for nerfs. What I don't get is how people are bringing up legitimate concerns, and yet so far very little has been change. At least not in the very sweeping way that Scoundrel/Operatives were hit.

 

Depends on what we see as overpowered. Sorc\Sage baseline is a little too strong, giving them far too many tools, allowing extreme levels of flexibility and utility in any spec.

 

But they can't really obliterate a player who knows what he's doing without a chance for retaliation outside a 2-min CC break c\d. Which was more than possible for OPs\Scoundrels - and still possible, but only if they outgear the victim (they can stun twice in a row now, but they do less opener burst).

 

My "solution" to the Sorc "problem" is moving part of their amazing utility into the trees so that every sorc couldn't have everything. For example, cut part of their baseline healing skills, so that non-healers could only have the first level 10 heal (the Force-inefficient one), a shield and a HoT, increase baseline cooldown on Force Lightning\Pebbles, because it's *the* most efficient force-to-damage ability, and healers shouldn't be able to use damage skills frequently without denting their Force pool (on my Scoundrel alt, I can't efficiently heal, unless I'm Sawbones, and my damaging abilities severely impact my energy pool - that's how it should be for everyone. I also don't have any long-range CC - unlike the other two healers).

 

However, they should get something in return, because right now, non-healing Sages\Sorcs feel a bit Jack-of-all-trades-ish. Raid DPS is below most other DPS classes, viable PvP DPS specs are largely centered around pebbles\lightning, and can be rendered useless when they are interrupted. This should naturally be fixed.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Helig

It's pretty easy to look at some classes and see they're overpowered.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives had tons of people screaming for nerfs. What I don't get is how people are bringing up legitimate concerns, and yet so far very little has been change. At least not in the very sweeping way that Scoundrel/Operatives were hit.

 

The optimist in me hopes that BioWare realized that the Scoundrel nerf was complete overkill and has decided to take a more reserved, calculating approach to PvP adjustments instead of the knee jerk nerf route.

 

The pessimist in me says they're putting off nerfing Sorcerers because they don't want to bring down an avalanche of QQ from the most overpopulated class in the game.

 

I hope the optimist is right.

Irregardless

 

Pardon?

For one, ranged classes in general have pretty much the same burst if not more than melee classes. Mercenaries have the highest burst damage in the game and snipers are right behind them.

 

 

Instant cast rotations don't mean you've got high burst, in general chaining a cast with an instant cast (like TM -> HSM) lets you achieve more burst in a single hit than any single attack in the game.

 

4k tracers and 6k HSMs can hit at the exact same time, and as far as I know there isn't a single class that can crit for 10k with a single attack.

 

You're right. There isn't a class that can crit for 10k in a single attack.

 

But if you're stupid enough to let a best in slot geared Bounty Hunter get off a tracer missile, then congratulations, you've allowed a class to crit for 10k between two attacks, one of which is a cast. Operatives can do better DPS than that.

Why not change the game mechanics back to early beta. The same stat was not used for healing and dmg. The stat is still in the game that was used for healing it is just for companions now. Let em choose to eother be facerolling dps or heals. So at least if he out heals your damage he is not killing you at the same time. I know on my Scoundrel in the healing level 20 pvp set that was in the game my dps sucked but now healers can out dps you while they heal.

Depends on what we see as overpowered. Sorc\Sage baseline is a little too strong, giving them far too many tools, allowing extreme levels of flexibility and utility in any spec.

 

But they can't really obliterate a player who knows what he's doing without a chance for retaliation outside a 2-min CC break c\d. Which was more than possible for OPs\Scoundrels - and still possible, but only if they outgear the victim (they can stun twice in a row now, but they do less opener burst).

 

My "solution" to the Sorc "problem" is moving part of their amazing utility into the trees so that every sorc couldn't have everything. For example, cut part of their baseline healing skills, so that non-healers could only have the first level 10 heal (the Force-inefficient one), a shield and a HoT, increase baseline cooldown on Force Lightning\Pebbles, because it's *the* most efficient force-to-damage ability, and healers shouldn't be able to use damage skills frequently without denting their Force pool (on my Scoundrel alt, I can't efficiently heal, unless I'm Sawbones, and my damaging abilities severely impact my energy pool - that's how it should be for everyone. I also don't have any long-range CC - unlike the other two healers).

 

However, they should get something in return, because right now, non-healing Sages\Sorcs feel a bit Jack-of-all-trades-ish. Raid DPS is below most other DPS classes, viable PvP DPS specs are largely centered around pebbles\lightning, and can be rendered useless when they are interrupted. This should naturally be fixed.

 

I agree with all that i think it was well said. I dont think there damage is whats OP its that they have so many tools at there disposal. And if your a smart player 1v1 you know how to kill a sorc but in WZ's there Group management on demand heals and burst Are insane. Damage wise there average, heck as gunnery i do more burst. but in pvp, matches are won by smart players who have more tools and cc Not burst and at the moment sorc have THE most Utilities.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Spikespeigl

Sorcerers are way too easy to play. Just way too simple! Also free auto turn cast.. ********. 70% of the people are sorcerers. This game is going to his end soon.

Once again raising the issue with sorc + hutball.

 

if the other team has even a tiny bit of co-ordination, its a win. I won't repeat the knock backs, roots, cc, standing behind fire whilst the balls disappears through it and beyond.

 

Scoundrel perspective.

Sorcerers are way too easy to play. Just way too simple! Also free auto turn cast.. ********. 70% of the people are sorcerers. This game is going to his end soon.

 

Are you saying that the class with "the most utility" is also the easiest to play efficiently? That sounds very wrong to me. But hey, I'm not arguing that they are hard to play. Nothing really is. What's hard is playing against other people who play well.

 

Sorcerers have very much utility, they do. But they are not the only ones. They are very fragile if you know how to approach them and they are always susceptible to melee and high burst classes (hence, they need to make good of positioning and maneuvering in order to survive).

 

They have the tools for this available to them, no doubt. But not everyone of them. Healers, for example, do not. It's pretty much only the Hybrid-specs that do (and sure, most play that). But what "most people" are saying is that base-line abilities such as the knockback, sprint and shield is what's "broken".. which makes me wonder if they are arguing that if a <insert melee class here> gets into close combat, they should just win?

Strange. 30% less healing in Warzones (in combat), coupled with Power giving less healing than damage, but it's still "overpowered", because that's just the way it is.. I wonder why healers even die when focused? It's an outrage if they do!

 

Static Field is obviously too strong as well. I mean, being able to shield the damage from 1-2 attacks is outrageous! Heck, it's even better than the 10% "constant" damage reduction Mercenaries and Commandos get, or their immunity to interrupts. I'm mad, damn it!

 

And burst damage, don't even get me started on burst damage! I tried to burst this guy yesterday, and he wouldn't die. Grrrr...

 

Seriously. I get that you're frustrated about losing and that you feel it's only because of Sorcerers (Sages are fine?) when that's what you primarily face in a Warzone (I usually see Commandos/Vanguards all over the place, but that's just me). This isn't a "L2P" commentary either, but could it be possible that you're exaggerating a bit. That, maybe, you're remembering your losses and not your wins?

So you just described 1v1 scenario. Hey guess what. I've yet to meet a sorc who can actually do some meaningful damage to me in 1v1 (I'm a marauder). Not to mention that this game's pvp isn't and will never be about 1v1.

 

But them you have the team of 5+ sorcs pitted against you.

 

I swear, I felt like a street ***** being constantly pushed around. 1v1 sorcs are fine but it's during group pvp that flaws start to come out. Maybe when rated WZs go live, something will change (I can't imagine any sorc surviving coordinated gangrape by 2-3 melee) but until then, there is an issue.

Edited February 23, 2012 by gibmachine

It is hard to balance pvp in pve game. So balance will change many times, some classes will be UP, then they will be OP, and so on.

 

For me problem with SWTOR is not that some classes are OP. I come to WZ for fun, and when 80% of my combat time I can't move it is simply ugly. It is boring and generally time waste. If there is a single reason I will eventually cancel my subscription, it is this. Lack of dynamics in PVP.

I literally played 4 warzones in a row, as Republic, and the enemy team was 6 out of 8 Sorcerers. Let me give you an idea of how fun this is...

 

They're all 30m away... They all have knockbacks, ranged stuns, they all snare with their main damage ability, the snares aren't affected by resolve, the snares don't build resolve. When you do catch the sorcerer they have a 150% movement speed run buff to scurry away.

 

The short rant is this... The sorcerer doesn't even need the ability to kite to be frustratingly hard to kill, while doing very good damage, and yet they have all the tools they need to kite someone endlessly.

 

I'm not stupid, I realize that 6 of any class is going to be frustrating. Once I joined a warzone that had 4 operatives in it working together pre-operative nerf. It was nightmarish to watch them vaporize the entire enemy team, but hey I'd rather have that than the 6 sorcerer unkillable. Focus one, he runs away, switch to another, he runs away.... It's pointless!

 

Healing is too powerful, sorcerer bubble is too strong, global cooldown is too long to sufficiently burst someone coupled with the resource mechanics in this game.

 

Irregardless of the fact that ranged has too extreme an advantage without a single disadvantage. Maybe line of sight, but in Ilum that matters how? There's a few spots on the first part of voidstar to LoS but otherwise not enough for me to care about trying to humor the idea. Sort of pointless to hide behind a way, good way to kill your enemy....

 

Im sorry but seriously Sorcerers are so over rated. I love it when I see many of them. They Are almost free kills. Granted if they focus fire me I'll die but that goes for any group who focus fire me. 1 vs 1 I will destroy them. I just don't get what all the fuss is about this class.

So you just described 1v1 scenario. Hey guess what. I've yet to meet a sorc who can actually do some meaningful damage to me in 1v1 (I'm a marauder). Not to mention that this game's pvp isn't and will never be about 1v1.

 

But them you have the team of 5+ sorcs pitted against you.

 

I swear, I felt like a street ***** being constantly pushed around. 1v1 sorcs are fine but it's during group pvp that flaws start to come out.

 

Actually, I'm not talking about a 1v1 scenario. And you're absolutely right, Sorcerers aren't very good 1v1 (in the sense that they probably won't kill you). Which is an area where the Marauder excels btw.

 

I'm assuming you're talking about Huttball primarily, since that's where knockbacks have the most effect on gameplay. Well, if people are smart and guarding others against melee I don't really see a problem with that. They play well.

 

The real problem I see with Sorcerers/Sages are the way their trees are built. They have access to every CC-improvement and still do decent DPS. That is poor design if you ask me. But I disagree that it's as game-breaking as some say. And it would seem that you're mostly complaining about base-line abilities, such as the knockback? You'll get the same result versus Commandos, actually. They have an AoE-knockback as well.

You guys are talking like sorcs CC dont work on your resolve bars, and they pew pew you down in 5 secs.

 

All you whiney kids need to play a sorc high level and then come to the boards and whine. Its not freaking easy to play a sorc efficiently. Tracer spam anyone?

 

Melees have full instant abilities, thats theyre only advantage... They're only advantage!? Thats just stupid talk.

 

I will tell you why so many people play sorcs. Since the sage is exactly the same class, and they are over flooding, guess what. Maybe they arentthat imba. Why people play sorcs is that it is the ONLY class that resembles a "caster" from regular MMO's. So people who like to play necro, wizard, warlock etc got 1 choice... Sorc.

 

People dont see a merc as a caster, or a sniper as a caster, they see sorc as a caster. Your feeling overwhelmed because you meet so many of em, and you suck at countering them, thats it.

 

How quickly would you die to 6 tracer spammers? Or any other class 6v1? Do you think you should have a chance 1v6? If its a 6v6, I wouldnt go with 6 sorcs, I can tell you that much. They're heal is not heal specced is 3 secs, your way better off healing with a trooper or agent who isent specced in heals. If you let a DPS sorc cast a 3 sec heal in combat, you suck...Plain and simple.