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Balance Shadow PvE Guide by MKnightRider

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Balance Shadow PvE Guide by MKnightRider

IInox's Avatar


IInox
06.19.2014 , 02:40 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
Awesome guide. You may want to get in touch with Dulfy about getting it copied to their website, since they haven't updated their Balance/Madness guide to 2.8 yet, and I know Evolixe wrote their Deception/Infiltration guide. Just make sure they put your name on it.

That said, I have a few pieces of feedback:

1) When you start discussing your opening rotation, you start using the MA abbreviation without ever stating that it means Melee Attack. You might want to add that to your nomenclature section, to avoid confusion for new players who might look through all their abilities and not find something that resembles it (or worse, guess incorrectly at what it means and use something really out there in its place).
MA (Melee Attack), which is: ST if below 30 force>SS>DS

He did

Botho's Avatar


Botho
06.19.2014 , 07:06 AM | #12
Ok so just trying to make sense of this. I see the priority ect but as far as the regular static rotation goes is it lie this?

FiB > FB > MA > MA > MA > SF > MC > MA------> repeat

or

FiB > MA > FB > MA > MA > MA > SF > MC > MA------> repeat

or something else completely lol.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
06.19.2014 , 07:11 AM | #13
3 very small things I'd add, 1 project is good on weak/normal enemies for the stun still, 2 it would be good to determine what TTK makes using Sever Force a waste (I'd guess anything under 12 seconds, but not sure), and 3 I think dropping both the damage boost for Double Strike and the stance damage is worth it for the run fast when doing hm flashpoints/dailies, the extra stealth is nice as well.

These are very minor things that don't impact operations but since this seems to be a detailed guide, might be worth adding.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
06.19.2014 , 08:10 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Whojoo View Post
Thanks for the guide, very helpfull

I've got a little question about FB and SF reapplication. In the priority (-and sub 30%) rotation, do you try to maintain the 3GCD seperation or are there sitations that you do less than the 3GCD difference? I guess that more than 3GCD is also possible with the priorities.

Again thanks for the guide, is a good read

EDIT: I am wondering what is a prefered option. 5DF accuracy pieces or 4 with 2 accuracy augments.
Same question with using non-commendation UW accuracy pieces. 5 + 2 augments a good choice?
There really aren't times where it would be beneficial to change that separation between Force Breach and Sever Force. If you're following the second method of playing the class, they'll get separated for one 18 second period, but you'll immediately fix it the next time.

For accuracy, at the Dread Forged tier, it's probably about a wash, going 5 pieces or 4 and 2 augments. Anything less than Dread Forged, though, is best with no accuracy augments, as you're wasting far too much main stat for the tertiary stat you get back.
Quote: Originally Posted by IInox View Post
MA (Melee Attack), which is: ST if below 30 force>SS>DS

He did
I swear I can read.
Quote: Originally Posted by Botho View Post
Ok so just trying to make sense of this. I see the priority ect but as far as the regular static rotation goes is it lie this?

FiB > FB > MA > MA > MA > SF > MC > MA------> repeat

or

FiB > MA > FB > MA > MA > MA > SF > MC > MA------> repeat

or something else completely lol.
So, the reason he doesn't list a strict rotation is because Force in Balance has a 15 second cooldown and Force Strike has a 7.5 second internal cooldown (a half mutiple of 15 seconds), while Force Breach and Sever Force both have 18 second durations. That means that if you look at the Balance "rotataion" in a 15 second block, FB and SF fall back 2 spaces each rotation. Example:

FiB > FB > MC > MA > MA > SF > MA > MC > MA > MA
FiB > MA > MC > FB > MA > MA > MA > MC > SF > MA
FiB > MA > MC > MA > MA > FB > MA > MC > MA > SF

If you look at it as an 18 second rotation, however, it's Force in Balance and Mind Crush that shift positions. Example:

FiB > FB > MA > MC > MA > SF > MA > MA > MC > MA > FiB > MA
MA > FB > MC > MA > MA > SF > MC > MA > FiB > MA > MC > MA
MA > FB > MA > MC > MA > SF > FiB > MA > MC > MA > MA > MA

Note: this is with MC at a lower priority than the other dots and Force in Balance, so its position doesn't shift as smoothly as Force in Balance's does. Also, in the first example, if there had been a MA before the first MC, we would have seen it interfere with the other dots and FiB and have to shift there, too.
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MKnightRider's Avatar


MKnightRider
06.19.2014 , 09:39 AM | #15
Updated OP to add:
  • Better explanation of accuracy gearing
  • Aelanis' extended look at the DoT Focus method rotation
  • leto_cleon's google spreadsheet breakdown of my rotation for a couple of my top parses
  • TKT warning (added to PR warning)
  • "When NOT to apply your DoTs" tip

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I also want to say that if anyone has anything they think would be useful like leto_cleon's spreadsheet or has any theorycrafting, feel free to post it and I'll add it (assuming it's correct information) and make sure to quote you. I'll try and get a video of me parsing added later today too.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whojoo View Post
I've got a little question about FB and SF reapplication. In the priority (-and sub 30%) rotation, do you try to maintain the 3GCD seperation or are there sitations that you do less than the 3GCD difference? I guess that more than 3GCD is also possible with the priorities.
During execute, I personally don't worry about the 3GCD separation anymore because it could mean delaying a DoT for no other reason than the 3GCD separation technique which will be broken again at a later point. You can still do it, but I don't personally.

Ehbuse's Avatar


Ehbuse
06.19.2014 , 12:29 PM | #16
Great guide!! As another posted; please upload a vid of either dummy rotation or boss fight, I play a balance sage but my balance shadow rotation feels clunky

Civilie's Avatar


Civilie
06.19.2014 , 02:50 PM | #17
Great guide man, thanks.

And yeah one of these days I'll post my expected damage calculations for optimal crit - but yeah you're close, 230-250 crit in DF/DM gear is optimal. I also have 284 for stat budget reasons though.
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MKnightRider's Avatar


MKnightRider
06.19.2014 , 05:32 PM | #18
Added a video for both methods.

undiess's Avatar


undiess
06.20.2014 , 08:21 AM | #19
Excellent guide and I appreciate the effort from Shadows and Assassins in coming up with an official guide for the Balance/Madness 2.8 buffs.

I wonder if Dulfy would consider adopting your guide for her site? then the balance/madness sections would be up-to-date.

Additionally, the accuracy part was VERY useful. I'm trying to decide what to get crafted for implants/ear, so I didn't know what route I wanted to go there. I was almost leaning towards the accuracy/crit implants.

MKnightRider's Avatar


MKnightRider
06.23.2014 , 06:00 PM | #20
Updated:
  • Added a link to the Assassin version of this guide that I just posted in the Assassin forums
  • Removed most Assassin terminology now that there is an Assassin version