The smash spec for warriors has taken over(at least on my server) and quite frankly I'm tired of this spec. No matter how I change my gear, kite, and use my force shroud,(assassin main) I'm still getting hit for 6-7k damage. Giving automatic AoE criticals isn't at all fair for other classes. I'm in full war hero gear and another player in bm/recruit hit me for 5k. If I don't have force shroud up, and the other player is half way decent, I'm most likely going to die, in a straight up fight it is very difficult for an assassin to beat a warrior. I just think the critical damage should be lowered. Hitting people for 1/3 of their health im one shot is ridiculous. I hate complaining but in wz's warriors/knights are really the only thing that slows me down. Anybody else think it's balanced? Or am I just lacking a lot of skill here?

I hate complaining but in wz's warriors/knights are really the only thing that slows me down. Anybody else think it's balanced? Or am I just lacking a lot of skill here?

 

Just an observation, but as you state, they are the only thing that slows YOU down...One out of all the classes you struggle with....Would that mean that your character is slightly over the top also?

What does and AOE, autocrit ability have to do with a 1v1 exactly? The point you began making and the point you ended at are not the same. Whatever your feelings on the AOE aspect of smash, it has no bearing on a 1v1 fight, and it isn't the only ability capable of regularly hitting 5k on one target. And the fact that those who min/max are stacking power with no crit makes taking them 1v1 as a sin even easier since they are hitting you with a wet noodle for 10-12 seconds until smash works again. Not to mention you yourself mentioned one of the few abilities to truly counter this move.

I hit Assassins for over 5k quite rarely, regardless of their spec. Every other class/spec (except the ones with a boost to AoE-defenses) can be hit for more much more easily (even Juggernauts and Bounty Hunters, if they have no defensive CD's up). I would sum up that there's something wrong with you gear/spec/playstyle.

 

And the best counter for Smashers, after Snipers are, surprise surprise, Assassins.

Well, in a 1v1 they still are trouble. With force crush/force exhaustion I'm slowed, if I try to know him away, he will use leap/obliterate then smash. If deflection helped reduce force damage, I wouldn't complain, but it doesn't. In a 1v1, they still hit for a massive amount, not to mention juggs get extra health and matauders have superior defensive cooldowns. 1v1 edge still goes to a warrior in this regard.

Well, in a 1v1 they still are trouble. With force crush/force exhaustion I'm slowed, if I try to know him away, he will use leap/obliterate then smash. If deflection helped reduce force damage, I wouldn't complain, but it doesn't. In a 1v1, they still hit for a massive amount, not to mention juggs get extra health and matauders have superior defensive cooldowns. 1v1 edge still goes to a warrior in this regard.

 

Juggs do not get more health in Rage spec, they are far squishier than most as they forfeit extra DCDs in the tanking tree and more endurance on gear. Honestly, sins are a counter to mara and jugg. They are one of the best 1v1 classes in the game and you have plenty of tools (insert CC here) to beat either Rage class (which are the worst 1v1 specs for both ACs).

 

I could ask the question of why you are trying to kite on a sin? I don't have experience with this particular class, but as a majority of your abilities are within melee range, it seems silly to gain distance.

Hang on your an assassin and you lose to a warrior in smash spec who is half recruit/bm?

 

That isn't overpowered that is just your a bad player.

 

I can take them down no matter my spec the only time they can take me is with low health Or i am focused by several.

1 v 1 the smash spec is overrated its a one hit wonder and if you play well you can avoid that one hit.

The smash spec for warriors has taken over(at least on my server) and quite frankly I'm tired of this spec. No matter how I change my gear, kite, and use my force shroud,(assassin main) I'm still getting hit for 6-7k damage. Giving automatic AoE criticals isn't at all fair for other classes. I'm in full war hero gear and another player in bm/recruit hit me for 5k. If I don't have force shroud up, and the other player is half way decent, I'm most likely going to die, in a straight up fight it is very difficult for an assassin to beat a warrior. I just think the critical damage should be lowered. Hitting people for 1/3 of their health im one shot is ridiculous. I hate complaining but in wz's warriors/knights are really the only thing that slows me down. Anybody else think it's balanced? Or am I just lacking a lot of skill here?

 

1. Smash/Sweep Spec has relatively nothing to to with the auto-crit talent (if you want to know why, I'll tell).

2. Warriors/Knights shouldn't be using the second leap for the proc.

3. It's about as balanced as tanksins/shad in DPS gear.

 

 

 

Not saying it is "good", but learn the spec more before you post a nerf thread in disguise..

Hang on your an assassin and you lose to a warrior in smash spec who is half recruit/bm?

 

That isn't overpowered that is just your a bad player.

 

I can take them down no matter my spec the only time they can take me is with low health Or i am focused by several.

1 v 1 the smash spec is overrated its a one hit wonder and if you play well you can avoid that one hit.

 

Never said I lost...at least I hope not. I just think damage should be reduced. I think the spec gives below average players higher chances of getting kills. When it comes to skill very few assassins on my server are better. The spec is OP, I haven't seen a warrior use carnage, anni, or vengeance in the longest time. I wonder why that is? And if an assassin doesn't have force shroud up, like I said, and the warrior is halfway decent, warrior gets the edge.

Juggs do not get more health in Rage spec, they are far squishier than most as they forfeit extra DCDs in the tanking tree and more endurance on gear. Honestly, sins are a counter to mara and jugg. They are one of the best 1v1 classes in the game and you have plenty of tools (insert CC here) to beat either Rage class (which are the worst 1v1 specs for both ACs).

 

I could ask the question of why you are trying to kite on a sin? I don't have experience with this particular class, but as a majority of your abilities are within melee range, it seems silly to gain distance.

 

Endure pain?

Juggs do not get more health in Rage spec, they are far squishier than most as they forfeit extra DCDs in the tanking tree and more endurance on gear. Honestly, sins are a counter to mara and jugg. They are one of the best 1v1 classes in the game and you have plenty of tools (insert CC here) to beat either Rage class (which are the worst 1v1 specs for both ACs).

 

I could ask the question of why you are trying to kite on a sin? I don't have experience with this particular class, but as a majority of your abilities are within melee range, it seems silly to gain distance.

 

Forgot to mention, when running madness spec, it's not best to sit there, you have to kite.

Forgot to mention, when running madness spec, it's not best to sit there, you have to kite.

 

Ah, then we have discovered the underlying issue. Take advantage of that free respec and you'll significantly improve your performance in many areas. I'm yet to find a truly fearsome sin in madness, but perhaps someone who has a main in the AC can step in to help you out a little more here.

Endure pain?

 

oh boy....

Maybe you mean UDR/GBTF?

Ah, then we have discovered the underlying issue. Take advantage of that free respec and you'll significantly improve your performance in many areas. I'm yet to find a truly fearsome sin in madness, but perhaps someone who has a main in the AC can step in to help you out a little more here.

 

Not in the AC, but I eluded to it in my earlier post:

 

 

 

Endure pain?

 

Sorry, I missed this. Endure Pain and Saber Ward are the 2 DCDs. Oddly enough, since Endure Pain lasts all of 10 seconds it does NOT give them a superior amount of HP, simply a temporary boost like any shield does. My HP pool on my jugg in mostly augmented WH is about 19.5k. Endure Pain offers me 30% more (5850 HP) for that 10 seconds. I'm pretty sure 6k HP is 2-3 globals that I get from it. No different than say Deflection that reduces melee and ranged damage by 50% for 12 seconds. Let's say you get hit by ravage with Deflection active, you could eat an entire 10k ravage with 6k HP left (only take 5k damage with Deflection), but a jugg with Endure Pain up would die.

 

You basically have Deflection and Force Shroud, Juggs have Endure Pain and Saber Ward. You, however, get to open from stealth (not allowing an opening leap and getting the first shot), and have a combat stealth to escape if needed or put the fight back in your favor with a reset. The notion that you have a disadvantage to a Jugg because of smash in a 1v1 is ludicrous.

Sorry, I missed this. Endure Pain and Saber Ward are the 2 DCDs. Oddly enough, since Endure Pain lasts all of 10 seconds it does NOT give them a superior amount of HP, simply a temporary boost like any shield does. My HP pool on my jugg in mostly augmented WH is about 19.5k. Endure Pain offers me 30% more (5850 HP) for that 10 seconds. I'm pretty sure 6k HP is 2-3 globals that I get from it. No different than say Deflection that reduces melee and ranged damage by 50% for 12 seconds. Let's say you get hit by ravage with Deflection active, you could eat an entire 10k ravage with 6k HP left (only take 5k damage with Deflection), but a jugg with Endure Pain up would die.

 

You basically have Deflection and Force Shroud, Juggs have Endure Pain and Saber Ward. You, however, get to open from stealth (not allowing an opening leap and getting the first shot), and have a combat stealth to escape if needed or put the fight back in your favor with a reset. The notion that you have a disadvantage to a Jugg because of smash in a 1v1 is ludicrous.

 

 

I need to do a better job clarifying. Marauders and juggernauts I struggle with. Marauders have cloak of pain, saber ward, force camo, undying rage. Which are clearly better defensive cooldowns.

I need to do a better job clarifying. Marauders and juggernauts I struggle with. Marauders have cloak of pain, saber ward, force camo, undying rage. Which are clearly better defensive cooldowns.

 

Indeed, but we are moving down a road far different than anything related to smash.

 

I'm not saying they are the same thing, but you have an ability to counter all of these.

 

UR: Feel free to stun them

Cloack of pain: combat stealth for 6 seconds, attack when it's over, or simply force speed away if they have already used leap

Saber Ward: Use deflection

Force Camo: Will only allow them to escape the fight, not beat you.

Ravage: Use your KB

Smash: Use Force Shroud

Self heals: Spec for your own self heals

 

They are different cooldowns, yes. They are strong cooldowns, yes. But you have your own strong cooldowns to counteract them and have the luxury of running one of the few ACs who can say that.

BW favors mele for some reason period. they constantly remain silent to all of the issues that people have brought up like smash, or not being able to interupt ravage, or their god mode abilities. with this being said BW feels their fine with their silence.

 

The only way to change this status quo is for everyone to roll a glow stick and only play them, when thats all that runs around in pvp mabie they will get the hint that that is trully the FOTOM and thats all that you can play to remain competitive in pvp at the moment.

 

i know it sounds silly, but so wasnt the extra extra extra CC that came with 1.4 that no one at all asked for. I love to pvp but no class out their has the AOE damage that Smash has, no one has the CC like the sorc bubble tossing machines, the classes arent ballanced at the moment, and they need to do something instead of increasing the CC in the game to compensate for this imballance.

Honestly, if your an assassin losing 1v1 to a rage warrior, you just suck. Assassins are the best counter to the lolsmashers imo. So here I'll try to give you some tips. First, if you're not in a deception based spec, get in one. Deception based specs in particular are incredible at dealing with smashers, and will typically do better for pvp than madness based builds.A while ago there was a thread from a rage juggernaut asking about how to deal with assassins, as they were destroying him in 1v1s. Convenient eh? Here's the quote from what I said to him. Just flip it around and look at things from the assassin's POV.

 

"Anyway, to the topic at hand. The cold hard truth is that your rage spec is just a straight up lousy counter to assassins. From reading your post, I am having a difficult time trying to figure out what spec this assassin is. You say he puts dots on you, which leads me to say madness, but you also describe a powerful opener, and some really big burst, which comes from deception. Madness does have some burst potential, but not at the levels your talking about. And deception has no dots, unless they take 2 secs to cast a crushing darkness, which I'm sure you would have noticed. So my best guess is that he was playing a 14/27 hybrid or some variant. But either way, it just sucks to be a rage warrior vs assassins. Madness can dot you up and just kite all day. Deception knocks you on your butt and unloads. You mentioned him resisting your first smash, which can be attributed to force shroud.

 

I mostly play deception, and am more familiar with it, so from here on in ill speak about that spec. First off, we get a straight 30% AOE damage reduction, plus another 25% from Dark Embrace, which will likely be up, especially in duels. So your OMGWTF 6k smash was just turned into 2-3k. And that pretty much kills rage spec right then and there, without that big hit, your done. And then deception will follow it up with multiple 5-6k hits of their own. Deception assassins are among the hardest bursting classes in the game, if not number 1. And yes, they do have a lot off cc, with Deception getting an extra 4 sec mezz in addition to everything else the class gets. Honestly, the matchup is just so far in Deception assassins favor, that I really have very little help to offer you, other than do not be caught alone, as that is where Deception thrives, in 1v1s. Pop your cds, use freezing force and crush to slow them as much as you can, try to kite if you can. Popping those cds will help with the initial burst."

 

So basically, as the Assassin, once you know what your doing it's a free win. Your defenses are perfectly suited for shutting down smashers, and your damage is perfectly suited to destroy them in return. Also, no recruit geared smasher will hit a WH assassin for 5k. Period. I call BS on that.

I need to do a better job clarifying. Marauders and juggernauts I struggle with. Marauders have cloak of pain, saber ward, force camo, undying rage. Which are clearly better defensive cooldowns.

 

Sorry dudeski, its a spec and L2P issue... You are a Sin, a melee/range hybrid. Your bread and butter is melee, but you should play a "cat/mouse DPS" game against this class. Pepper them with ranged attacks, avoid sweep/smash, melee when shroud/cloak is up, stealth, rinse/repeat.

 

If you are going to engage in melee range, you need to escape/avoid sweeps. You have all the tools to do it. Spec 12 points in the Darkness tree to Disjunction.

 

If you see the possibilty of one coming:

1. Force Speed

2. Force Shroud

3. Force Stealth

3. Stun

4. KB

 

SWeep/Smash is a Force attack, so Shroud nullifies it completely. Speed and stealth nullifies it by making them miss. Stun/KB are also options, but fills resolve, so they should be last option.

Sorry dudeski, its a spec and L2P issue... You are a Sin, a melee/range hybrid. Your bread and butter is melee, but you should play a "cat/mouse DPS" game against this class. Pepper them with ranged attacks, avoid sweep/smash, melee when shroud/cloak is up, stealth, rinse/repeat.

 

If you are going to engage in melee range, you need to escape/avoid sweeps. You have all the tools to do it. Spec 12 points in the Darkness tree to Disjunction.

 

If you see the possibilty of one coming:

1. Force Speed

2. Force Shroud

3. Force Stealth

3. Stun

4. KB

 

SWeep/Smash is a Force attack, so Shroud nullifies it completely. Speed and stealth nullifies it by making them miss. Stun/KB are also options, but fills resolve, so they should be last option.

 

Smash spec usually hybrids the CC immunity from Vengeance so the Kb/Stun does not work.

Smash spec usually hybrids the CC immunity from Vengeance so the Kb/Stun does not work.

 

What idiots Smash Juggs are you running into? Who would give up armor penetration, increase to force crit damage, and one of the abilities to build shockwave in order to go into vengeance? You would give up probably 1-2k damage per smash for this at least.

What idiots Smash Juggs are you running into? Who would give up armor penetration, increase to force crit damage, and one of the abilities to build shockwave in order to go into vengeance? You would give up probably 1-2k damage per smash for this at least.

 

**** if I know, all I see is that the only way to avoid Smash is to Force Speed. Whenever I try to Force Wave they are immune and then proceed to remove half my health bar...well they would but they tend to just remove my bubble and stun themselves that way =P

Edited November 20, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus

What idiots Smash Juggs are you running into? Who would give up armor penetration, increase to force crit damage, and one of the abilities to build shockwave in order to go into vengeance? You would give up probably 1-2k damage per smash for this at least.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I am a hybrid D/FOC spec, strictly to have some better defensive tools (i.e. balanced). My best sweeps are around 5k. They are good, but not enough for others to cry about... It would be about the same for a ven/vig hybrids... And Charge/Leap only activates it the non-cc proc, not Obli/Zeal..

 

 

Anybody want to really learn why Sweep/Smash is overly strong?

**** if I know, all I see is that the only way to avoid Smash is to Force Speed. Whenever I try to Force Wave they are immune and then proceed to remove half my health bar...well they would but they tend to just remove my bubble and stun themselves that way =P

 

you have to spec 12 points in the Vig/Ven tree to get that talent...