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New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?


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So some guildies and I tried the new FPs last night, and since they're in the same Group Finder tier as the previous 55 HMs, we decided to jump straight into the HM versions in order to knock out part of that weekly at the same time. To be blunt, we got our butts kicked, so we downgraded to the SM versions just so we could clear the CZ-198 weekly. To be honest, we kinda felt insulted by the transition. Here's what we observed:

 

-packs of trash that were all decently powerful strongs and elites on HM were retardedly easy standards and strongs on SM.

-ALL bosses on SM have a clickable healing station that fully heals the entire group. This, to be honest, feels like hand-holding of the worst kind, as even our healer was DPSing during most fights since we could just clck the panel and get a full-restore without effort.

-CZ-8X on HM took us about 3 or 4 tries to be able to down him, largely because his Charged Plating attack would drop us to 30% or lower if we weren't quick enough to get out of it or if we got pulled back into it. On SM, the same attack barely touched us, and the only reason I even bothered moving out of it was to practice for the next time we tried HM.

-Zokar stonewalled us on HM. We got to the point where we could get him down to 10-15%, but by that time he'd hit 5 stacks of Weapon Arsenal and demolished us with rocket launcher attacks that literally chopped off 75% or more of our HP in one shot. And yes, we always tried to get out of reticles for everything he did, but his attacks always seemed to hit us anyway, even when we were a good 2-3 meters outside the reticles. On SM, we slaughtered him while he was still at 3 stacks and didn't even notice taking any significant damage during the entire fight.

 

Now granted, none of us are uber-leet players to any degree, but we ARE competent and decently geared. Our two DPS (me being one) and the tank were in full 69s and 72s (the other DPS and I were also fully augmented), and our healer was in 66s and up--not the best gear she could've had, but we've managed to regularly clear every other 55 HM with little to no difficulty with this same party. Meantime, I'm also aware that the SM versions are considered "Group 2+" missions, but so was Esseles, and that FP, while not overly difficult, NEVER felt like it was Hello Kitty easy like these new ones are. We literally spent a couple hours trying to bash past the HM version of one of the new FPs and failed, but we smashed through BOTH FPs on SM in less than an hour (we probably could've gotten through them even faster than we did if we hadn't started screwing around once we figured out how easy they were), and there were really only one or two times during the entire thing where anyone took any noticeable damage.

 

Now before anyone says anything about me "whining for a downgrade" because I need to "learn to play," that's not necessarily what I'm doing; a downgrade to the HMs would be nice, but that isn't completely what I'm suggesting. Basically, what I'm saying is this:

-the SM versions feel like they need to be boosted a bit, because honestly, I was laughing the entire time I was there because everything was so retardedly easy to beat.

-if the HM versions are supposed to be on the same challenge level as the other 55 HMs, it feels like someone screwed up somewhere and the bosses need to be scaled back a bit. If, on the other hand, they're SUPPOSED to be this hard, then fine, leave them alone--but put them on a different Group Finder tier so those of us who aren't good enough to beat them yet can still clear the 55 HM weekly without having to abandon and requeue every time we get one of the two new ones.

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I'm guessing the Czerka FPs are supposed to be 2.0s "Lost Island"s

 

Labs:

It took us 4 attempts on the first boss.

2 attempts on the second.

The third boss are easy.

 

Granted, we had a very undergeared healer. Still it was fun and we quite enjoyed it. Labs drops all 69s

 

Meltdown:

Significantly easier than Labs. Never wiped, we replaced our healer, that could be why. Dropped all 69s, except Vigilant, which dropped Arkanian earpiece.

 

Can someone confirm which Arkanian pieces Vigilant drops? I've only run it once.

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SM is designed where you can kill it with any group of 4... its a new thing to the game so if you go in with ok geared tank, healer, and 2 dps you're going in OPed. its the design... so no its not too easy.

 

HM too difficult? give the 4-man crowd a challenge, please!

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Ugh not this, please dont nerf them, they are not that hard, its called learning fights since it was most peoples first time in them and they are slightly buggy still (rampage was not destroying the generators in sandstorm fight). They are heal intensive, if mechanics are messed up at all you better hope the healer is good, but the mistakes can be overcome. Tired of going into flashpoints and just rolling my face on my keyboard and clearing it.

 

One thing ill give ya is in many of the boss fights if the adds are not controled somebody gunna get a hurt real bad. But thats the tanks job other wise they are all tank and spank for them.

 

Please dont change them other then fixing the bugs.

 

ps i miss Lost Island version 1.0, place was so fun. By no means are these equal to original LI though.

Edited by WillHolmes
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SM is designed where you can kill it with any group of 4... its a new thing to the game so if you go in with ok geared tank, healer, and 2 dps you're going in OPed. its the design... so no its not too easy.

 

HM too difficult? give the 4-man crowd a challenge, please!

 

stressing the PLEASE

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I did both in SM, and the one without Mr. Blys in HM. The SM was a joke, but I expected that. Anything that doesn't require a tank or healer is bound to be laughable to any competent group. We then did the HM version, and one-shotted everything. I'm a well-geared tank, and our healer is really good as well, but it was still what I would call easy.

 

I was hoping for pre-pre-pre-nerf Lost Island, and got nothing even close. If anything, the HM's should be harder.

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I did both in SM, and the one without Mr. Blys in HM. The SM was a joke, but I expected that. Anything that doesn't require a tank or healer is bound to be laughable to any competent group. We then did the HM version, and one-shotted everything. I'm a well-geared tank, and our healer is really good as well, but it was still what I would call easy.

 

I was hoping for pre-pre-pre-nerf Lost Island, and got nothing even close. If anything, the HM's should be harder.

 

Have not ran it yet, but sadly, I am probably going to agree with when I run it tonight, provided our MT is on. I expect it to be a walk in the park with my combat medic. I was hoping for a challenge, but with your post just, i'll likely be dissapointed. Oh well, at least we can 'carry' a new DPS through it to gear them up without having to run SM ops. But all of this could be premature, who knows, maybe we will wipe. But I highly doubt it... Our 4 man team is skilled... as for our 8 man... Well, that is another matter entirely, though better than the majority. Good enough to beat the 8HM ops (GF, TFB, S&V) - So, I guess I will find out.

 

That said, BW, PLEASE bring challenging 4 man content. NiM requested as well...

 

Edit ** N/M, my MT just texted me and said 'hate to dissapoint, but we did them last night and 1 shot everything' - So, color me dissapointed.

Edited by Arch_Angel_Gabe
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I was hoping for a pre-first-nerf LI HM, but I was expecting something on par with the existing HMs. The difficulty level was a pleasant surprise, perhaps halfway between those two extremes.

 

I went in on my Shadow tank with a Focus Sentinel, a Sharpshooter Gunslinger and a Gunnery Commando who had respeced to heals and was healing in his DPS gear (protip: accuracy ensures your heals never miss!). All of us were in full Underworld gear with some 75s. The coolest part though is we went in without reading any guides, listening to guildies who had done it already, or any spoilers of any sort. So, a complete blind clear.

 

We one-shot every boss except the one with the electrified floor.

 

So yeah, I don't think it's really over-tuned. The only reason we wiped on the electrified floor boss is our Focus sentinel was feeling cheesy and didn't want to stop DPSing the boss, so our healer (who was, if you recall, actually a DPS) had to keep her up through the damage. Coming in here in 66 gear with some 69 mods would definitely provide a serious challenge, but it would absolutely be doable. Most of the bosses require moderately high healing and a tank with good awareness. I think the tank is the most important part, honestly. If you have a bad tank, you're going to wipe incessantly.

 

As for Story Mode, of course it's going to be super-easy. Remember, role-agnostic mode? It's for people to see the story. I don't have a problem with it being a cakewalk. I'd actually prefer Hard Mode to be a bit harder still, but given the stories I've heard from other people in-guild wiping repeatedly even with foreknowledge of the mechanics, it's probably in a pretty good place right now.

 

Here's hoping we get a few solid months before Bioware nerfs these instances.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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I ran both HM FPs yesterday. I am a healer fully auged mostly in 72s with 1,100 to bonus healing. The fights are substantially harder than the other FPs and defiantly not balanced around level 62 gear (148 quality). I would not say it required super healing, but it does require substantially more effort than the other HM 55 FPs. Heck, I used adrenaline while fighting the second boss in meltdown and I never use adrenaline except in anything but HM Ops.
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So we ran both, HMs, last night without looking at any guides.

 

Simply put, you need a tank who knows how to play. Running these with random tanks with better gear than our first tank were disasters. The first guardian had 66 crafted and did better than two guys in 69/72 optimized tank gear. Labs is easy, but Core you have to have a tank who does not suck at positioning bosses. Our DDs were running 66-69 gear.

 

Possible helpful hints if you're having problems:

 

Eradicator: Charged plating has a cast time, just watch for it. Use trans/predation. Sorc/Sage pull also helps for the person pulled in. Simple fight, DPS, move (and kill adds), go back in.

 

Zokar: Every single one of his reticule attacks are avoidable. If you're getting hit by them, you're not paying attention. Our second try at this guy we avoided every single reticule attack but the tank just taking the shotgun blast.

 

Ramsus: We didn't figure out the tanks thing until the third time through (we didnt look at guides). Without doing so it's a tank and spank, just keep moving and putting down the adds. 100% possible without doing the matching kolto tanks thing.

 

Duneclaw: Spread out with the sandstorm, have the tank pull it to the green generator thing. Use Trans/Predation to make it easier.

 

Vrblther: This is the true test of a tank not being an idiot. Pick a side (use right, as left seems to make the boss reset) and stick to it - be careful not to LOS your healer. Pay attention to the spore timing. Don't move the boss till the spores wear off, pre moving the boss to the next spore actually lowers DPS. Tank and spank. Again, party speed increase here helps.

 

Vigilant: Put the damage reticules at the wall when they spawn. Past that this is the easiest fight of all of the FPs. The spin attack was almost laughable damage wise.

 

Edit: /signed NIM versions of these FPs.

Edited by Maelael
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They are certainly easier than the good old Lost Island and the four rehashed ones introduced in 2.0. Please give us a challenging FP after 1+ year, this faceroll only teaches people how to be bad and get 69 epics ._.
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They are certainly easier than the good old Lost Island and the four rehashed ones introduced in 2.0. Please give us a challenging FP after 1+ year, this faceroll only teaches people how to be bad and get 69 epics ._.

 

I have to disagree with this. The four rehashed HMs introduced in 2.0 are quite a bit easier than the new HMs, particularly in terms of tanking. Old-school LI HM was definitely a lot harder though.

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I have to disagree with this. The four rehashed HMs introduced in 2.0 are quite a bit easier than the new HMs, particularly in terms of tanking. Old-school LI HM was definitely a lot harder though.

 

The same way that flies aren't much bigger than ants from a person's perspective, the 2.0 HMs are essentially the same difficulty as the new ones. Easy.

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The same way that flies aren't much bigger than ants from a person's perspective, the 2.0 HMs are essentially the same difficulty as the new ones. Easy.

 

*shrug* While I'm sure you picture yourself as the "person" in that metaphor, not all of us like to come across as quite so egotistical. I certainly don't think that the new HMs are all that difficult for a competent group, but let's not stand around and mock people who wipe on them just because they got a bad tank or their healer was distracted. We all start somewhere. A fine example of this is a group yesterday that included two of my guildies and wiped for about an hour on each. The tank and one of the DPS have both cleared Nightmare bosses, but the tank is currently on painkillers and the healer in the group (a non-guildy) was absolutely terrible.

 

Are the flashpoints challenging for a group of people who would otherwise be clearing Nightmare ops? No, not even close. Are they challenging for a group of people gearing up and learning the ropes? Absolutely.

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*shrug* While I'm sure you picture yourself as the "person" in that metaphor, not all of us like to come across as quite so egotistical. I certainly don't think that the new HMs are all that difficult for a competent group, but let's not stand around and mock people who wipe on them just because they got a bad tank or their healer was distracted. We all start somewhere. A fine example of this is a group yesterday that included two of my guildies and wiped for about an hour on each. The tank and one of the DPS have both cleared Nightmare bosses, but the tank is currently on painkillers and the healer in the group (a non-guildy) was absolutely terrible.

 

Are the flashpoints challenging for a group of people who would otherwise be clearing Nightmare ops? No, not even close. Are they challenging for a group of people gearing up and learning the ropes? Absolutely.

 

While I was not mocking them, I was making a statement from a different point of reference. Difficult and easy are a matter of perspective and relative difficulty. My guild and I miss the days of LI giving a fair amount of challenge and entered the HMs with some hopes of it being difficulty (with posts like this being the reason why I got my hopes up) and ending up thoroughly disappointed.

I think you made the most important statement there with the terrible healer. Having a deal-breaking player in the mix doesn't make the Flashpoint itself overtuned or too difficult, it just made that particular run horrendous. Should we consider this flashpoint overtuned because players are getting stomped?

Edited by Falver
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I was hoping for pre-pre-pre-nerf Lost Island, and got nothing even close. If anything, the HM's should be harder.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

I had so much fun healing LI when it was brand new, and I was looking forward to more of that. It was really, really fun and challenging, but we still managed to clear the whole thing on the night it was introduced (including the bonus boss), and I even won that little black Rakling pet guy, which made my night because I'm into that kind of thing sometimes. He matched my outfit.

 

Unfortunately, I found that these new FPs were disappointingly easy to heal. Nightmare modes would be amazing! I haven't bothered to try the SM yet. Based on what I saw of the HM, I'm sure it would be a major, major snooze-fest.

Edited by belialle
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I think you made the most important statement there with the terrible healer. Having a deal-breaking player in the mix doesn't make the Flashpoint itself overtuned or too difficult, it just made that particular run horrendous. Should we consider this flashpoint overtuned because players are getting stomped?

 

Of course not. Despite my opposing tone in reply to your post, I don't think these instances are anywhere near overtuned, and I would absolutely hate to see Bioware nerf them. Like you, I was looking forward to a bit of 4 man wipe action, and it just didn't happen. I'd like to see something a lot harder than what they gave us, but I do recognize that a reasonable segment of the population finds the new HMs challenging in their existing form, and I don't really hold that against them.

 

So, backing up to the OP: they're really, really not overtuned.

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Oh no, please stop before it begins. These fps are a joke at best. We steamrolled through them even without knowing the mechanics. We had 1 wipe on the sandstorm boss and that was it, and that was due to being unsure of what to expect. We figured going over dulfy would make them even more of a joke, which would have been true. If you are wiping, its user error, the fights are not overtuned, AT ALL. If anything they are undertuned, sick of these people going into HARD mode and saying omg we wiped NERF ASAP PLZ B4 I UNSUB ITZ 2 HRD!!! Learn the fps, you won't wipe, sounds to me you got through them, overtuned? I think not.
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Are you insane? The new HM flashpoints are boring not hard!

 

CZ-8X on HM took us about 3 or 4 tries to be able to down him, largely because his Charged Plating attack would drop us to 30% or lower if we weren't quick enough to get out of it or if we got pulled back into it.

Didn't know tactics, for the first two charged plating attacks didn't even move and still no one died. Boss one-shotted.

 

Zokar stonewalled us on HM.

Our healer got locked out of room on the first pull, still got boss down to ~10% without healer. Killed it on second pull with healer.

 

we ARE competent and decently geared.

The run I described was a LFG pug. Vanguard Tank was in PvP gear, Scoundrel healer in 69/72; Sentinel DPS #1 in 72/75; Sentinel DPS #2 in 69/72;

 

We literally spent a couple hours trying to bash past the HM version of one of the new FPs and failed

How?!

 

if the HM versions are supposed to be on the same challenge <snip> If, on the other hand, they're SUPPOSED to be this hard, then fine, leave them alone--but put them on a different Group Finder tier so those of us who aren't good enough to beat them yet can still clear the 55 HM weekly without having to abandon and requeue every time we get one of the two new ones.

Of course they are supposed to be HARD! What do you think the "H" stands for? The problem is that all flashpoints currently on the LFG (these two included of course) are a walk in the park and boring to the point of no one wanting to do them.

 

Honestly enough is enough! Every time new content comes out there is always someone crying for a nerf! Just because YOU can't do it, it doesn't mean it requires a nerf. Deal with it, move to an easier game, but stop attempting to destroy the game for everyone else!

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I have tanked Core Meltdown on my 69/72 Assassin (twice in fact, second run was all 1-shots). First run was learning mechanics... wiped once on the desert boss because I didn't know what the mechanic was. Second attempt cleared. On the jungle boss, we one-shotted. And we 2-shotted the last boss, because a DPS dc'd mid fight, so we missed enrage. Overall a fun flashpoint, not overtuned in my opinion.

 

I have DPS'd Labs on my 69/72 Mercenary. Everything was 1-shot, even tho the undergeared Sorc dps we had with us kept standing in the reticules and getting 1-shotted.

 

I really really really hope that these FPs don't get nerfed.

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