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Let's talk about Strike Fighters

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Let's talk about Strike Fighters
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Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
07.16.2015 , 01:54 PM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by ALaggyGrunt View Post
Replace evasion with having to lead the target and gunships would have a lot bigger problems targeting things which moved fast. That, and resistance to drain/debuffs and shield piercing.
Do you mean turning off the targeting computer's lead? I'm almost certain most pilots wouldn't hit anything then with their blasters.

Or do you mean giving railguns a lead like blasters have?

What to do then with tracking penalties, weapon accuracy and copilot abilities? What would the chassis/components/upgrades give instead of evasion then?

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
07.16.2015 , 03:00 PM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
Do you mean turning off the targeting computer's lead? I'm almost certain most pilots wouldn't hit anything then with their blasters.

Or do you mean giving railguns a lead like blasters have?

What to do then with tracking penalties, weapon accuracy and copilot abilities? What would the chassis/components/upgrades give instead of evasion then?
Make it so railguns have to lead like blasters.

The accuracy mechanic is so ingrained in the game, a lot of talents would have to change, both on the weapons and the crew.

JasonSzeremi's Avatar


JasonSzeremi
07.16.2015 , 03:03 PM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
Do you mean turning off the targeting computer's lead? I'm almost certain most pilots wouldn't hit anything then with their blasters.

Or do you mean giving railguns a lead like blasters have?

What to do then with tracking penalties, weapon accuracy and copilot abilities? What would the chassis/components/upgrades give instead of evasion then?
I think we're talking making rail guns have to lead their targets.... I mean it's rail gun not laser cannon, so it could have a 'flight time' and thus need to lead the target.... which would make a lot of scouts happy, some strike fighters, no bombers, and no gunships.

Kinda off topic for 'how do we improve strike fighters' Since it's just a nerf to the death star fighters

Nethgilne's Avatar


Nethgilne
07.16.2015 , 03:22 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by ALaggyGrunt View Post
Replace evasion with having to lead the target and gunships would have a lot bigger problems targeting things which moved fast. That, and resistance to drain/debuffs and shield piercing.
Pretty much this too. I don't know if rail guns are insta-hit weapons now or just very fast projectile speed, but if evasion stat is dumped, then I suppose rail guns bolts will need a travel time now. But, that is an entirely different topic

Duudde's Avatar


Duudde
07.18.2015 , 10:12 AM | #505
There is never a reason to bring a fighter. They don't out-damage, out-survive, outmaneuver, outrun, out range, anything. Scouts slaughter them, bombers slaughter them, GS slaughters them.

Their primary weapons are too weak, their secondaries are too slow to lock on and are easily avoided, they can't outfight a scout, which seems ridiculous.

FIGHTERS should be the kings of dogfighting, but they are worst than GS at it. They need effective and strong damage shields to provide protection from those scouts (esp those flashfires and stings with that ridiculously powerful burst cannon), so that when those scouts blitz fighters from across the map with their kill gun, the scouts can feel the pain. Otherwise, the scout can just outmaneuver and kill the SF with ease. Then they need heavy enough speed and maneuverability to deal with GS.

As things are with ships, scouts are the best fighters, which seems strange. Scouts should be..well..scouts, but they're not, they are the fighter ships of the game, killing bombers, GS and SF, particularly the flashfire and sting.

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
07.18.2015 , 11:09 AM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by Nethgilne View Post
Pretty much this too. I don't know if rail guns are insta-hit weapons now or just very fast projectile speed, but if evasion stat is dumped, then I suppose rail guns bolts will need a travel time now. But, that is an entirely different topic
All blasters as well as railguns and rocketpods hit instantly. The only weapons with travel time are missiles. Travel time for blasters and pods is simulated by having a lead indicator.

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
07.18.2015 , 02:19 PM | #507
Come to think of it, we could just change what the evasions stat would do. Instead of it rolling dice, it would combine with speed to determine how far ahead your lead indicator is to anyone trying to shoot you. It would be [Accuracy/Evasion] * [Velocity vector] or something like that.

That would change the scout-vs-gunship fight. A lot of them like to dead-stop to pop cooldowns and unload stuff into gunships, and this mechanical change would make that not work-scouts would almost have to kill by snap shots if we did that.

JasonSzeremi's Avatar


JasonSzeremi
07.19.2015 , 04:49 AM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by ALaggyGrunt View Post
Come to think of it, we could just change what the evasions stat would do. Instead of it rolling dice, it would combine with speed to determine how far ahead your lead indicator is to anyone trying to shoot you. It would be [Accuracy/Evasion] * [Velocity vector] or something like that.

That would change the scout-vs-gunship fight. A lot of them like to dead-stop to pop cooldowns and unload stuff into gunships, and this mechanical change would make that not work-scouts would almost have to kill by snap shots if we did that.
How does that help strikes and how does that help scouts? Are we talking giving the GS a pipper to aim at so it can 99% hit scouts with high evasions?

If we're trying to help strike fighters, how about a shotgun/chaff shield that does damage to anything within 2k that's in the target cone regardless of evasion.... (or target sphere but it cuts one level of shields right off your ship and gives a missile break...)

JasonSzeremi's Avatar


JasonSzeremi
07.19.2015 , 05:24 AM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Duudde View Post
There is never a reason to bring a fighter. They don't out-damage, out-survive, outmaneuver, outrun, out range, anything. Scouts slaughter them, bombers slaughter them, GS slaughters them.

As things are with ships, scouts are the best fighters, which seems strange. Scouts should be..well..scouts, but they're not, they are the fighter ships of the game, killing bombers, GS and SF, particularly the flashfire and sting.
in a nut shell this is the problem... in making strikes 'generalists' they made every system second best. System cool downs are the domain of scouts and specialist ships. The strike most feel is most useful, is the one with system cool downs. The other two and a half models use the same weapons as are shared by lighter and heavier hulled ships but on the scouts the cool downs super charge their weapons making them more effective, and they mount a larger variety of weapons that are potentially more effective. These strike's compensation is being able to switch between different under performing weapon systems. While there is something to be said for that ability, they obviously need more. Better weapons to choose from? An across the board upgrade (reduction) to missile lockons? Higher ammo for strike's missiles (lower ammo for scouts.... seriously, lighter faster, more tightly turning chassis=lower available payload weight). An ability to drop strike's missile reload time with a cool down? Say by pressing 1 if there is a missile on CD it resets it and starts a 60 second debuff that prevents it from happening again and or firing missiles triggers a 10 second buff that drops all cool down times for missiles to 0... with the same debuff to prevent it from procing again for 60 seconds....

To BE a generalist they need the firepower to out fight the light weight specialists. If missiles could hit, that might be the edge you would need. A few more missiles in the racks might compensate also for the trend of wasting missiles on enemy missile breaks....

incidentally, could we get credit for 'participating' for _FIRING_ missiles? I got kicked from a match because none of my torps hit, but I locked and fired them contiously... I was participating, I was making the other guys blow their missile evasions hot and heavy. I would have gotten more credit if I had fired on a mine or drone, which is kinda crazy.

What strikes need.... is burst damage around the 1500 mark that gunships do with a single shot. They would have to be in the 10k-0 range band, preferably around 8-4k but damage should not decline with closer range.... they are strike fighters not archers (that would be the gunships who could possibly use a damage nerf under 6k? just saying...)

With this much damage, IF they can hit a scout, they would do serious damage to it, perhaps not kill it outright.... but that's enough to get them on the table. If they do 1500k in a burst, two or three such hits would take out most strikes.... and several would deal with a bomber (any gunship ace could give you better numbers for the damage to kill anything) But if a scout can do MORE damage then a strike (granted only the T2 scout) and a gunship can do more damage over time then a strike (divide 1500 by the recharge/reload period of the gunship) then you can see why choosing a strike over a gunship or scout wouldn't give you the killing power to out perform them regardless of speed and turning.

As it is, a scout parked at a dead stop (no speed or turning), can face tank a strike and win. I think it should be the other way around.... and that's just to make a strike at-least a generalist

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
07.19.2015 , 05:31 AM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by JasonSzeremi View Post
How does that help strikes and how does that help scouts? Are we talking giving the GS a pipper to aim at so it can 99% hit scouts with high evasions?

If we're trying to help strike fighters, how about a shotgun/chaff shield that does damage to anything within 2k that's in the target cone regardless of evasion.... (or target sphere but it cuts one level of shields right off your ship and gives a missile break...)
I'm throwing ideas around to see if people like them and/or poke holes in them. And, yes, that's kind of the idea. It's probably not a good one, because of peoples' love of gunship walling. If you're diving at an angle at a gunship, it would have to shoot waaaay outside of its firing cone if you stacked evasion. Another one will have a better shot.

The other reality is how scouts seem to like slowing down to attack gunships, even firing from a dead stop, or maybe while strafing. If you watch Scrab's stream, you'll see he does this and stacks up kills that way-this change would eliminate that tactic for facetanking gunships cause attacks wouldn't RNG out any more.