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Y can lightning sorc get 98%+ DR?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Y can lightning sorc get 98%+ DR?

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
06.03.2019 , 11:48 PM | #1
I just read through lightning tree.

No wonder there r so many of them in PVP.

Like wth. They get tank DR for doing their rotation + keeping up deionized (u wanna do that anyway in PVP).

Merc e.g. gets 1% per stack with a perk (up to 5%) that u cant even keep up consistently in anything but arsenal. Lightning just needs to spam lightning bolt which they do anyway. Im absolutely baffled by this.

Lightning sorc takes less internal elemental dmg than anyone else (due to flat DR), less dot dmg than a dot spec. Im absolutely baffled that there is so much DR stacked into lighning and madness gets absolutely nothing. No, the life steal does not come even remotely close to that amount of flat DR.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
06.04.2019 , 05:06 AM | #2
I mean, yes, it has a lot but no need to exaggarate and make things up. 98%? Nope.

Consistent 45-48% with a 45sec cooldown DCD bringing it to 70%? Yes. Not that different from what mara under Cloak of Pain has or Rage jugg (also almost consistent 40%).

This DR is the only reason Lightning sorcs actually are decent right now. Definitely not because of their burst

EmperorRus's Avatar


EmperorRus
06.04.2019 , 06:31 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
No, the life steal does not come even remotely close to that amount of flat DR.
Agreed, amount of healing from DoTs is barely noticeable

Madness Sorcs and Hatred Sins need something like Anni "Blood guard" or Fury "Furious Defense" in addition to existing functionality of "Parasitism"

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
06.04.2019 , 10:37 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
I mean, yes, it has a lot but no need to exaggarate and make things up. 98%? Nope.

Consistent 45-48% with a 45sec cooldown DCD bringing it to 70%? Yes. Not that different from what mara under Cloak of Pain has or Rage jugg (also almost consistent 40%).

This DR is the only reason Lightning sorcs actually are decent right now. Definitely not because of their burst
Yeah except mara and jug r MELEE. Tank DR on a ranged is absolute nonesense.

And there is no exaggeration. Lightning can reach 98% every 45 secs (threat drop + self heal thing). If they r really under pressure they can even add in threat drop + DR adrenal 45 secs later.

How long is the CD on undying rage? 3 mins base line. How long does it last? 4 secs. Sorc gets 6 secs of immunity on a comparably nothing amount of CD. Plus immunity bubble.

It is absolutely insane that there is no upheaval about this. Ppl think reflexive rebounder is OP. No this is. One time in a reg i ran into some lighning sorc by the name of xvwc or something, and they were melting absolutely everyone especially my poor madness sorc cause they r basically immune to whatever we seem to be doing.

WTB defensives rebalance for these 2 specs. This is nonesense.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
06.05.2019 , 02:44 AM | #5
I still don't see where 98% is coming from. With the self heal's utility DR you would have 85%.

That's a one-time occasion every 45sec that burns through half of your DCDs. I don't ssee how it's broken.

Have you even played Lightning sorc? Doesn't look like it. You say you just "read the passives". You are like that one guy on PvP forums the other day who was crying that snipers are useless and weak.

Lightning Sorc's main defense is still kiting and keeping distance. The only thing this DR accomplishes is that sorc isn't completely blown up every time a melee reaches him. If you really think that simply having high DR makes you OP, you haven't played much PvP. Whatever DR you have stacked up as Lightning, if you get locked down, you will be forced to phase walk away or pop barrier - same thing sorcs have always done. This extra DR they have now is just making it so their survivability is not laughable and they don't get oneshotted (bad sorcs still do).

You know what class truly has strong passive defenses? Marauder. Back him up with a healer and it's unkillable. 55% DR for 30 seconds straight and tons of other defenses on top. But that seems ok to you, I guess.

P.S. Reflect on merc is obviously much stronger than anything sorcs have despite longer cooldown. Mostly because merc has a ton of other things on top of reflect (high DR that you seem to be scared of so much, ridiculous self heals, better kiting tools, higher burst...).

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
06.05.2019 , 03:19 AM | #6
There's no bs 98% Damage Reduction. If anything, at most, 80%. Still a lot, so I agree anyway, but that's not the topic.

Since there's clueless people how the % is working. Damage Reduction buffs are not accumulative. They are 'added' but differently. Allow me to show an example

Part 0: Let's assume you take "100%" of the damage. You'll take a 20.000 damage from the hit.

Part 1: Pop a 20% Damage Reduction ability -> If you have 20% DR, you'll only take 80% damage now
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 = 16.000
So you'll take 16.000 damage from the hit.

Part 2: Let's say you also added 15% Damage Reduction, as well, with the 20%. If it was by 'adding', it would make it 35% but since it doesn't work that way, the numbers will be different.
So it will work like this: Damage of hit * (1 - DR_1) * (1 - DR_2) * etc
DR_1, DR_2 and so on depend on how much DR each ability gives individually.
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 = 13.600
So this corresponds to taking about 68% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 ) and not 65% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 ) damage taken of the original hit.

Part 3: Let's add now 50% Damage Reduction on top of the previous two.
Math: 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 = 6.800
And this corresponds to 35% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 ) and not 15% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 - 0.5 ) damage taken.


Hopefully you understand how Damage Reduction works now...

Akureng's Avatar


Akureng
06.05.2019 , 03:39 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
You know what class truly has strong passive defenses? Marauder. Back him up with a healer and it's unkillable. 55% DR for 30 seconds straight and tons of other defenses on top. But that seems ok to you, I guess.
He won't be ok with it next week, when he gets wrecked by some Marauder in Solo Ranked and gets to reading through their passives to figure out how he lost.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
06.05.2019 , 04:48 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Akureng View Post
He won't be ok with it next week, when he gets wrecked by some Marauder in Solo Ranked and gets to reading through their passives to figure out how he lost.
Makes sense.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
06.05.2019 , 04:58 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
There's no bs 98% Damage Reduction. If anything, at most, 80%. Still a lot, so I agree anyway, but that's not the topic.

Since there's clueless people how the % is working. Damage Reduction buffs are not accumulative. They are 'added' but differently. Allow me to show an example

Part 0: Let's assume you take "100%" of the damage. You'll take a 20.000 damage from the hit.

Part 1: Pop a 20% Damage Reduction ability -> If you have 20% DR, you'll only take 80% damage now
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 = 16.000
So you'll take 16.000 damage from the hit.

Part 2: Let's say you also added 15% Damage Reduction, as well, with the 20%. If it was by 'adding', it would make it 35% but since it doesn't work that way, the numbers will be different.
So it will work like this: Damage of hit * (1 - DR_1) * (1 - DR_2) * etc
DR_1, DR_2 and so on depend on how much DR each ability gives individually.
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 = 13.600
So this corresponds to taking about 68% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 ) and not 65% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 ) damage taken of the original hit.

Part 3: Let's add now 50% Damage Reduction on top of the previous two.
Math: 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 = 6.800
And this corresponds to 35% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 ) and not 15% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 - 0.5 ) damage taken.


Hopefully you understand how Damage Reduction works now...
There are plenty of DCDs that are directly additive to your Damage Reduction Stat from Armor Rating. The ones in question here are exactly like that.

Let's say, sorc has 20% (I think that's what you have with 258 armor) DR. He picks that one utility that gives +3%. Now he has 23% DR. Then he uses Lightning Bolt 3 times. That's +15% DR. If you open character sheet, you will see that you literally have +15% added to your DR - you've got 38% now. Then you use Static Barrier on yourself and get +10% from Deionized debuff. It also is additive. You now have 48% DR hence the OP's comparison to having DR of a tank (tanks are at around 48-56% depending on class).

Once you pop Cloud Mind, you get +25% DR. It is again, additive. You now have 73% DR. Then you pop self heal with the legendary utility. It gives +15% so for the next 6 seconds you have 88% DR.

A different type of stat is "Reduces Damage Taken". This is the one you explained. That is the stat that is not additive. Like Invincible on jugg tank or proc from Maul on Deception. You already explained the way that one works.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
06.07.2019 , 12:54 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
There's no bs 98% Damage Reduction. If anything, at most, 80%. Still a lot, so I agree anyway, but that's not the topic.

Since there's clueless people how the % is working. Damage Reduction buffs are not accumulative. They are 'added' but differently. Allow me to show an example

Part 0: Let's assume you take "100%" of the damage. You'll take a 20.000 damage from the hit.

Part 1: Pop a 20% Damage Reduction ability -> If you have 20% DR, you'll only take 80% damage now
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 = 16.000
So you'll take 16.000 damage from the hit.

Part 2: Let's say you also added 15% Damage Reduction, as well, with the 20%. If it was by 'adding', it would make it 35% but since it doesn't work that way, the numbers will be different.
So it will work like this: Damage of hit * (1 - DR_1) * (1 - DR_2) * etc
DR_1, DR_2 and so on depend on how much DR each ability gives individually.
Math : 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 = 13.600
So this corresponds to taking about 68% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 ) and not 65% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 ) damage taken of the original hit.

Part 3: Let's add now 50% Damage Reduction on top of the previous two.
Math: 20.000 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 = 6.800
And this corresponds to 35% (1 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 ) and not 15% ( 1 - 0.2 - 0.15 - 0.5 ) damage taken.


Hopefully you understand how Damage Reduction works now...
U r wrong.

Everything is additive for sorc. U get around 20% from armour. 3% from utility. 10% from being deionized. 15% from spamming lightning bolt a few times. That alone is 48% that u will always have.

Then on top of that 25% every 45 secs from threat drop. Also 15% every 25 secs from self heal. I made a mistake that is only 88%. U can still be immune to white dmg by also popping the defensive PVP adrenal.

I dont see y u keep mentioning marauder. I know that class. At best they will have lil over 50% uptime on cloak of pain with CD reduction perk (fury seems to be FOTM and u dont use assault). Lightning is permament.

Also lets look at undying rage. It has a 3 min CD (or 2.5 with perk, dunno if ppl usually spec into it). Sorc can do it every 45 secs for pretty close to similar effect. A class that is supposed to be made of paper is tankier than a marauder. I cant believe nobody is seeing an issue with that. Lightning is darn good at kiting, huge DR like that on top of it is getting awefully close to OP.