I don't feel like taking my 5.x Shadows and Sins into ranked nowadays. I got silver in S7 ranked on my serenity shadow. Looking back, S7 ended with the 5.0 expansion. Back then, merc/mandos were free kills, maras weren't so stronk, and sage/sorc heals were way OP. It's not that Serenity/Hatred was better back then, it's just that now the class balance is heavily tuned toward melee burst and godmode DCD buttons and defensives.

 

So I guess we serenity shadows are fine, but don't ask us to quickly 1v1 a side node anymore. It's considerably more difficult in this meta. May as well go infiltration.

Sins are still viable in Ranked. I play Hatred/Serenity less than I used to, but I still play the spec here and there and I can still outplay my opponents, even despite not having Low Slash.

In SR 4dps vs 4dps and without too many nets, yes.

In TR there is no reason to go Sin when you can have burst classes that deal more damage, have better DCDs and provide better group buffs than a Mass Taunt.

(Playing Hatred in a cleave comp may work, but cleave comps are very situational anyway)

The only particularly good thing they left to Sin is Low Slash, that they are probably gonna remove in some future patch seening how they like to nerf this class "just because why not".

Sins are still viable in Ranked. I play Hatred/Serenity less than I used to, but I still play the spec here and there and I can still outplay my opponents, even despite not having Low Slash.

Maybe I'll pick it up again. I'm kind of bored of my other classes/specs.

Welcome back, Krea. I enjoy your guides and vids.

Please check the videos in my post above yours, think you may find them interesting.

 

I think our force management was way better in classic SWTOR. Sadly, however, I don't think they could ever go back to that system. If they did we'd have far too much force regen.

That spec as a whole was much better in classic SWTOR than it is now.

Hatred sins need buff on their defence and force managment.

That spec as a whole was much better in classic SWTOR than it is now.

 

Hatred sins need buff on their defence and force managment.

Agreed. While it's an unpopular opinion, I don't like the dot-spreading. I especially don't like how it caused us to receive a nerf to our self-healing. If we want to get any relevant self-healing we pretty much have to dot the entire enemy team. I'm not immune to the charms of scoreboardwh*ring, but it feels cheap to do so as a Madness Assassin/Serenity Shadow. Spec had way more elegance in the original game.

I would like it if they moved the DoT spread back to Death Field. Death Field should be centered on self, similar to how Vigilant Thrust works for Guardians.

What's the radius of Death Field? 10m? Once upon a time, Serenity/Hatred's role was to control grouped melee opponents with nasty dot spreads and an aoe taunt in pvp. 4m whirling blow dot spread doesn't quite cut it, imo.

I would like it if they moved the DoT spread back to Death Field. Death Field should be centered on self, similar to how Vigilant Thrust works for Guardians.

 

What's the radius of Death Field? 10m? Once upon a time, Serenity/Hatred's role was to control grouped melee opponents with nasty dot spreads and an aoe taunt in pvp. 4m whirling blow dot spread doesn't quite cut it, imo.

I knew I wasn't crazy. I remember the dot spread was on death field. Sad that changed.

Hatred is simply NOT an assassin.

It has nothing to do with the concept of stealth and assassination. It's a melee Madness.

Hatred is simply NOT an assassin.

It has nothing to do with the concept of stealth and assassination. It's a melee Madness.

%100 True, I think it's a badly designed spec murdered by bad nerfs.

Sins are still viable in Ranked. I play Hatred/Serenity less than I used to, but I still play the spec here and there and I can still outplay my opponents, even despite not having Low Slash.

Played about 150 games in SR with sin. Sins are almost VIABLE in ranked.

My problem with sin is In games where there are alot of ranged class - sins are pretty weak and vulnerable. Limited ranged attacks (deception) and limited gapcloser (unlike maras&juggs) also not very wise to spam force speed everywhere due to its DR. Very vulnerable to push and slow.. pretty much sitting ducks. Low slash is not enough.

Just blows my mind our stealth equivalence Operative HAS Rifle Shot, Frag Grenade and 1 DOT all 30m attacks also not to mention ROLL is FAR superior then Force Speed. And sins only got 1 30m attack every 15 seconds which can easily be DODGED. Yes i know operative got more advanced energy management but this is a bad excuse.

Devs if you reading this: this needs to fixed. Back in the days we had lightning storm. This is just brutal especially where the meta is Range - push-slow-knockback and we got no Phasewalk and Light armor. Give us 1 30m attack and make vanish clear out merc's net ffs.

Played about 150 games in SR with sin. Sins are almost VIABLE in ranked.

 

My problem with sin is In games where there are alot of ranged class - sins are pretty weak and vulnerable. Limited ranged attacks (deception) and limited gapcloser (unlike maras&juggs) also not very wise to spam force speed everywhere due to its DR. Very vulnerable to push and slow.. pretty much sitting ducks. Low slash is not enough.

 

Just blows my mind our stealth equivalence Operative HAS Rifle Shot, Frag Grenade and 1 DOT all 30m attacks also not to mention ROLL is FAR superior then Force Speed. And sins only got 1 30m attack every 15 seconds which can easily be DODGED. Yes i know operative got more advanced energy management but this is a bad excuse.

 

Devs if you reading this: this needs to fixed. Back in the days we had lightning storm. This is just brutal especially where the meta is Range - push-slow-knockback and we got no Phasewalk and Light armor. Give us 1 30m attack and make vanish clear out merc's net ffs.

rifle shot and frag nade do poopy damage and are really the equivalent of shooting spitballs at the teacher to annoy them.. only useful for stopping caps. corrosive dart does ok dmg, but the main point of it is for TA regrants on longer fights.

sin also has:

-better burst

-better control

-better dcds

-better passive survivability

-survivability that doesn't require preventing yourself from doing damage in general

-no positional requirements

-much better peeling potential

although I will agree on the ranged classes thing, even though you can spec force speed for a rootbreak and it has a pretty low CD, the amount of control and damage an ars merc has at 30m is just retarded, and yeah I'd say it's harder for sins against classes like that because deflection can only do so much. you guys can at least shroud net and /lol, though

rifle shot and frag nade do poopy damage and are really the equivalent of shooting spitballs at the teacher to annoy them.. only useful for stopping caps. corrosive dart does ok dmg, but the main point of it is for TA regrants on longer fights.

 

sin also has:

-better burst

-better control

-better dcds

-better passive survivability

-survivability that doesn't require preventing yourself from doing damage in general

-no positional requirements

-much better peeling potential

 

although I will agree on the ranged classes thing, even though you can spec force speed for a rootbreak and it has a pretty low CD, the amount of control and damage an ars merc has at 30m is just retarded, and yeah I'd say it's harder for sins against classes like that because deflection can only do so much. you guys can at least shroud net and /lol, though

LoL

Operative has op heal.

Sin has no survivability except vanish.

Sin defensives are garbage.

Dmg is not that good.

Positioning is everything, if they root you twice in a row you are dead.

Plus merc net is overkill for this class.(they doing 30-40k hits easily in 248 gear while mine sin/shadow doing 22k criticals in 258 gear, patethic)

Serenity/hatred is much better cause it has garbage small heal on dots and 1 attack plus 30% dmg red every 45 sec plus your dots doing good pressure dmg on range targets.

Plus you can kill Merc on their reflection.

For what it's worth, as a player who's been playing on/off since about 6 months after launch and left this class till last to play, after coming from a mainly Vengeance Jugg dabbling in Rage from time to time, I feel this class is very close to being one of the most well-balanced I've played in PvP and PvE. I'm nowhere near good enough to be called truly skilled but I pull my weight in utility and DPS and never need to be carried.

That said, coming from a Jugg and a Merc before that, Deception's burst does feel a tad underwhelming, but I couch that more as a problem with other classes being overtuned. For the most part it's been great fun. It's got the tools to dictate the conditions of a fight and when working with a good team it is devastating. Hatred is simple rotation-wise but a totally different beast where playstyle is concerned and again, great fun to use in both PvE and PvP. In mid Arenas I've brought down 1mil-dealing Rage Juggs 20 levels above me with their own pocket healers, with nothing more than a good buddy to co-ordinate with - a good challenge sure but isn't that why we play? Merc nets are still cancer but it's like that for most if not all classes anyway.

Point is, I've found them perfectly viable, and certainly no less viable than anything else. Merc and Jugg DCDs/DPS are a different story but I wouldn't want to see Sins part of an arms race when the better answer would be to tone down a couple of things on the other classes. That said, really sad to see PW disappear, really feel the need for an instant 'see ya later' button when IAs get roll, Mercs get RO, SW gets MD and Sorcs get...PW.

If anyone else here's been playing the game for 7 years, you should know that buffs and nerfs spew out like candy from a pinata, so FOTM time will likely be around the corner if that's what you want. Personally, I'd just settle for PW. On the bright side, it could be worse. BW only really hates PTs.

The devs have broken us and sadly, they have doubled down on screwing us. The upcoming changes will ensure the class will be unfun to play for PvP and be near the bottom of desired classes in 6.0, at least for DPS. We are meant to be a glass cannon... very powerful, able to kill one on one quickly if in the hands of a great player, but at a great disadvantage in a prolonged fight, especially against other classes. Now we aren't even glass cannons.

Due to outright nerfs to us, our damage is down, couple that with increased defensives other classes have been given (and some very unfavorable to us things that these classes will get in 6.0), we aren't bursting anyone down unless they have a stroke at the keyboard. That means we're in fights longer and that means....we're totally screwed.

We're going to get crushed by the melee that actually can hit hard and of course, the 4 ranged you find every warzone, aoeing and focusing you down while you can do nothing to them... by the time you run the gauntlet to get to them, your health is so low you're SOL. Nothing like getting hit for 40K by snipers. Not to mention, half the time if we are hitting anyone, they're getting health back because of it or it's reflected to hurt us. Good thing we're in a great position for defensives...oh wait...

Yeah, we have a couple defensive abilities, but on big cooldowns and odds are we're respawning and not living long enough to use them again. We definitely do not have the health regen in combat abilities other classes get, which seems pretty unfair since they STEAL abilities from us and give them to other classes. Phase walk? screw you shadows, we're taking it for sages...and you know what? Double screw you shadows we're giving it to gunslingers too. And just for good measure, we made your nerfed rotation even more clunky to use by putting shadow stride on a partial GCD.

Our bonuses and such in 6.0...don't solve the problem at all. Other classes get bonuses and such that will help, and the broke OP classes get stuff that will make them even more broke and OP.

Now, are we useful in some warzones as support? Sure... we can mezz from stealth... a couple of us will be very troublesome for voidstar or nodes, and we can hide and call for help when someone does come to the node, but are we going to be able to carry the day as DPS against the @#$@# show of 6.0? No.

I sincerely hope everyone votes with their character choices and stops using infiltration shadows when it becomes apparent how bad we are in 6.0. I hope the Devs take a good long look and actually fix the class so it's viable given the meta of the 6.0 world.

The devs have broken us and sadly, they have doubled down on screwing us. The upcoming changes will ensure the class will be unfun to play for PvP and be near the bottom of desired classes in 6.0, at least for DPS. We are meant to be a glass cannon... very powerful, able to kill one on one quickly if in the hands of a great player, but at a great disadvantage in a prolonged fight, especially against other classes. Now we aren't even glass cannons.

 

Due to outright nerfs to us, our damage is down, couple that with increased defensives other classes have been given (and some very unfavorable to us things that these classes will get in 6.0), we aren't bursting anyone down unless they have a stroke at the keyboard. That means we're in fights longer and that means....we're totally screwed.

 

We're going to get crushed by the melee that actually can hit hard and of course, the 4 ranged you find every warzone, aoeing and focusing you down while you can do nothing to them... by the time you run the gauntlet to get to them, your health is so low you're SOL. Nothing like getting hit for 40K by snipers. Not to mention, half the time if we are hitting anyone, they're getting health back because of it or it's reflected to hurt us. Good thing we're in a great position for defensives...oh wait...

 

Yeah, we have a couple defensive abilities, but on big cooldowns and odds are we're respawning and not living long enough to use them again. We definitely do not have the health regen in combat abilities other classes get, which seems pretty unfair since they STEAL abilities from us and give them to other classes. Phase walk? screw you shadows, we're taking it for sages...and you know what? Double screw you shadows we're giving it to gunslingers too. And just for good measure, we made your nerfed rotation even more clunky to use by putting shadow stride on a partial GCD.

 

Our bonuses and such in 6.0...don't solve the problem at all. Other classes get bonuses and such that will help, and the broke OP classes get stuff that will make them even more broke and OP.

 

Now, are we useful in some warzones as support? Sure... we can mezz from stealth... a couple of us will be very troublesome for voidstar or nodes, and we can hide and call for help when someone does come to the node, but are we going to be able to carry the day as DPS against the @#$@# show of 6.0? No.

 

I sincerely hope everyone votes with their character choices and stops using infiltration shadows when it becomes apparent how bad we are in 6.0. I hope the Devs take a good long look and actually fix the class so it's viable given the meta of the 6.0 world.

This is false, sins are actually overtuned in 6.0 and can global people again in a stunlock.

The devs have broken us and sadly, they have doubled down on screwing us. The upcoming changes will ensure the class will be unfun to play for PvP and be near the bottom of desired classes in 6.0, at least for DPS. We are meant to be a glass cannon... very powerful, able to kill one on one quickly if in the hands of a great player, but at a great disadvantage in a prolonged fight, especially against other classes. Now we aren't even glass cannons.

 

Due to outright nerfs to us, our damage is down, couple that with increased defensives other classes have been given (and some very unfavorable to us things that these classes will get in 6.0), we aren't bursting anyone down unless they have a stroke at the keyboard. That means we're in fights longer and that means....we're totally screwed.

 

We're going to get crushed by the melee that actually can hit hard and of course, the 4 ranged you find every warzone, aoeing and focusing you down while you can do nothing to them... by the time you run the gauntlet to get to them, your health is so low you're SOL. Nothing like getting hit for 40K by snipers. Not to mention, half the time if we are hitting anyone, they're getting health back because of it or it's reflected to hurt us. Good thing we're in a great position for defensives...oh wait...

 

Yeah, we have a couple defensive abilities, but on big cooldowns and odds are we're respawning and not living long enough to use them again. We definitely do not have the health regen in combat abilities other classes get, which seems pretty unfair since they STEAL abilities from us and give them to other classes. Phase walk? screw you shadows, we're taking it for sages...and you know what? Double screw you shadows we're giving it to gunslingers too. And just for good measure, we made your nerfed rotation even more clunky to use by putting shadow stride on a partial GCD.

 

Our bonuses and such in 6.0...don't solve the problem at all. Other classes get bonuses and such that will help, and the broke OP classes get stuff that will make them even more broke and OP.

 

Now, are we useful in some warzones as support? Sure... we can mezz from stealth... a couple of us will be very troublesome for voidstar or nodes, and we can hide and call for help when someone does come to the node, but are we going to be able to carry the day as DPS against the @#$@# show of 6.0? No.

 

I sincerely hope everyone votes with their character choices and stops using infiltration shadows when it becomes apparent how bad we are in 6.0. I hope the Devs take a good long look and actually fix the class so it's viable given the meta of the 6.0 world.

Tell this to people who got triple autocrit Mauled on PTS. Sin's Burst on PTS was nuts. Double Cloak allows them to drop in, deliver huge burst and drop out very often. You clearly didn't test all the tacticals and set bonuses available to you. Sins are not supposed to face tank anyone for long, they have always meant to be a CC-heavy, burst-heavy glass cannon. And so far it's looking like in 6.0 they'll be performing this role even way too well.