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Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.14.2019 , 02:37 PM | #1
EDIT: Given the growth of the thread, I'm inserting a summary of the discussion (as of August 11th 2019) up front, for people not interested in reading over a hundred posts. My orginial post remains at the bottom.

Whatís the problem?
New end-game gear (Amps) will provide peak performance. The devs have called it 'optional' and 'not necessary,' while simultaneously downplaying the importance of a gearing system they're aggressively re-monetizing (Command/Renown drops).

In 6.0 XP and CXP are earned concurrently, but boosted separately. Weíll need two simultaneous, compounding, monetized consumables to un-nerf progression and gearing, on top of the $155.88 we pay year over year, for a 'Premium' experience.

Renown drops will probably be the primary feeder for rare Amps and Tacticals. To head off criticism, the corporate talking points are pretty clear: highly-monetized end-game gear is framed as optional, not-necessary stuff from a secondary system.

Amps and Tacticals will be available through other gameplay, but double-boosted Renown drops need only be efficient to create a pay-to-win problem.

Whatíre the details?
CXP will be calculated as a percentage of XP. At max level, youíll no longer get XP, but itís still the basis of you CXP calculation, so the monetized consumable never becomes obsolete.

The resulting value can then be compounded by a CXP consumable, to fully un-nerf your gearing.

Thereís no reason to maintain these as separate totals, except to monetize them individually.

How much does paying to win cost? What do you get?
Iím glad you asked! Iíll happily provide detailed figures upon request.

P2W/Hour Case 1 (Low-Efficiency Purchases): $1.91/hour
P2W/Hour Case 2 (High-Efficiency Purchases): $0.68/hour

This means less than seven hours of paying to win could double the monthly cost of SWTOR for a subscriber, while delivering 2.5X Renown gear drops.

You just want free stuff!
Progression gates are arbitrary numbers. Expecting optimal tuning to come with our 'Premium' purchase isn't asking for a free expense. It's merely advocating for an unsabotaged experience, that doesn't rent us a solution to an artificially imposed problem.

But they give us a ton of XP boosts!
Yes, the core story drops a finite number of XP boosts. This kept subscribers from feeling abused during the ĎF2Pí transition, which introduced monetized consumables.

Their usefulness had a sunset at max level, and they gave us enough to get there. Now, XP boosts are permanently required to un-nerf gearing, alongside CXP boosts. Those XP boosts are character-bound. If you have them, youíll run out. By design.

You canít direct-purchase stat-based gear! Itís not P2W!
Oh boy. Microtransactions feed stat-based gearing. Suggesting that obscurant game mechanics make it ok is no different than any other claim that money laundering legitimizes an illicit practice. It doesn't.

Also, crystals are stat-bearing direct purchases. Theyíve long-since dipped a toe in that pool.

Then your subscription is P2W! Hypocrite!
No. Nothing is free, and I expect to pay for a quality game.

The demo ('F2P') version is crippled to incentivize subscriptions, and that's fine. What I have a problem with is monetizing in-game advantages on top of a monetized 'Premium' experience.

Cash shop items, including CXP boosts, can be acquired in-game, without spending a dime!
Secondary grinds for anything cash-purchasable aren't game design. They're burdens to incentivize financial transactions, for items that shouldn't be withheld from a subscriber to begin with. And no, the subscriber CC ration isn't meaningful.

Why does this matter?
This is about ethics. Purchasing in-game advantages is the very essence of pay-to-win.

Watch the documentary Leaving Neverland; it's an amazing parable about excusing the crossing of bright lines. Microtransactions that feed gearing are one such line. Weíre being groomed, and when the lights go out, we'll be getting FIFA'd.

Whether it's a disturbed celebrity, or EA/BioWare, the moral obligation is for powerful people not to solicit inappropriate things from others.

What FIFA's doing is way different!
It's a matter of degree, not principle. SWTOR has both of FIFA's worst ethics problems:

1. Gambling Products
2. Pay-to-Win Consumables

What's new?
The Entertainment Software Association has announced their members (EA/BioWare) will disclose odds on their gambling products. This may require its own thread, but here're a few thoughts:

The transparency provided to direct-purchase gambling products (say, Hypercrates) is pretty straight forward.

What's not been clearly addressed are money laundered gambling products (for instance, a randomized drop fed by a purchased boost, like Renown Crates), or how they'll handle variable drop rates.

If they're ethical, they'll list the lowest possible probability for each item, and include tables for money laundered purchases, too

ORIGINAL POST:
Now that XP and CXP are earned concurrently, but boosted separately, we're looking at needing two consumables at a time for un-nerfed progression, on top of the $155.88 we pay year over year, for a 'premium' experience.

I'm guessing Renown level-drops will feed Amps and Augments (either directly, or with rare components), much as GC levels feed Aug components now, and create a far worse pay-to-win incentive for end-game gear than we have now. I don't even want to get started on the cynicism of the claim Amps are 'optional,' and 'not necessary.'

Have the Devs commented on monetized progression at all?

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
06.14.2019 , 03:54 PM | #2
XP and CXP are not earned concurrently. That is, you do not earn Command Experience while earning ordinary Experience.

CXP and *CQP* are earned concurrently for level 70s. XP and CQP are earned concurrently for level 1-69s, although it doesn't seem to work for XP earned from killing foes.

(CQP == ConQuest Points)
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.14.2019 , 04:14 PM | #3
The last Dev-stream was pretty clear; a percentage of XP will be earned concurrently as CXP (edit: in 6.0), and they confirmed the continued use of boosts.

Suzsi's Avatar


Suzsi
06.14.2019 , 04:39 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
The last Dev-stream was pretty clear; a percentage of XP will be earned concurrently as CXP (edit: in 6.0), and they confirmed the continued use of boosts.
Isn't CXP being scrapped in 6.0? Changed to Renown XP instead?

-

~~ Always looking for more Theron Shan and Aric romance. ~~

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.14.2019 , 04:44 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzsi View Post
Isn't CXP being scrapped in 6.0? Changed to Renown XP instead?
They're using both terms, for now. The dev's PowerPoint used CXP in their last stream. Re: concurrent XP/CXP, it's at about the 56min mark.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.14.2019 , 05:09 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
Now that XP and CXP are earned concurrently, but boosted separately, we're looking at needing two consumables at a time for un-nerfed progression, on top of the $155.88 we pay year over year, for a 'premium' experience.

I'm guessing Renown level-drops will feed Amps and Augments (either directly, or with rare components), much as GC levels feed Aug components now, and create a far worse pay-to-win incentive for end-game gear than we have now. I don't even want to get started on the cynicism of the claim Amps are 'optional,' and 'not necessary.'

Have the Devs commented on monetized progression at all?
I've got a stack of about 30 Major XP boosts that I got from completing story missions, that cost me 0.00. The monetization scheme sucks...
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Sarlegant's Avatar


Sarlegant
06.14.2019 , 05:50 PM | #7
XP, all the way to 75... how many days is that gonna take, even for a casual, I expect no more than 5 days.

I doubt I'll even use a xp boost. I will log my 7 alts, just to get their rested started, while I level out my main.

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.14.2019 , 06:05 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarlegant View Post
XP, all the way to 75... how many days is that gonna take, even for a casual, I expect no more than 5 days.

I doubt I'll even use a xp boost. I will log my 7 alts, just to get their rested started, while I level out my main.
If I understand correctly, XP is still calculated at max level, and a percentage of that will convert to CXP. The compounding effect of XP and CXP boosts will be a marked advantage if Renown drops feed end-game gearing.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.15.2019 , 08:03 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
If I understand correctly, XP is still calculated at max level, and a percentage of that will convert to CXP. The compounding effect of XP and CXP boosts will be a marked advantage if Renown drops feed end-game gearing.
So? Going forward from here, it's just a number. Since the new crates are going to award relevant to your current gear score, instead of your rank, and you can't get that Renown until cap anyway. At that point, the end rewards will become Renown, and you'll still earn Conquest according to what the XP would have been. I can verify this last, since as an experiment, I used a Major XP boost on a capped toon, and went Conquest farming. The Conquest rewards were higher with the XP boost than w/out. The current Command XP boosts can be purchased on the Fleet, so I'd imagine that the new boosts will simply replace the old ones.

So, as monetization schemes go, this one is rather pathetic. Everything's tied to XP, and XP boosts are literally free. Other than epeen stroking, the "rank" in Renown is meaningless, so how fast, or slowly, one acquires it is irrelevant to gearing.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Visorknight's Avatar


Visorknight
06.15.2019 , 08:07 AM | #10
Unlimited renown ranks allows them to then reward top renown levels players with rewards such as seasonal titles prizes etc. If they does this like diablo 3 paragon levels, technically, which also means boosts to reknown will sell very well on cartel market.