They've deleted the test server forums after every patch once that patch that was being tested goes live because then it is no longer in "testing" phase and it is live. You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

If if a small cabal of select individuals [the combat team], working in secret, without any outside oversite, sharing their inner workings with no one outside the group and destroying any trace of it's former mechanations isn't a conspiracy, I don't know what is.

This, most likely. Why should a burst spec be able to do the needed sustained damage? 70 seconds isn't burst. Hell, not even Styrak manifestations are really burst at 30 seconds.

For the same reason a sustained spec should be able to do 25-30k in 1 second. [Annihilation's annihilate, for example]. It has to cut both ways, or not at all.

Bant -

There is very little difference between Burst and Sustained in SWTOR. All of the DoT classes rely more on Big Hitting moves than they do DoTs and the Burst DPS have all been toned down to the point where most of their moves do same damage. The biggest difference between Burst and DoTs is not sustained damage, its ability to change targets quickly vs setup time. But there are very few fights that require a target to be killed in less than 10 GCDs which lets all of the DoT classes to stand equal to the Burst classes (and the DoT Application is already factored into the DPS for those classes).

For the same reason a sustained spec should be able to do 25-30k in 1 second. [Annihilation's annihilate, for example]. It has to cut both ways, or not at all.

 

Bant -

You got a point.

But in the context of TFB NiM, it doesn't change a thing. You barely need to target swap, so why play a spec that's good at it, if the one that isn't does more damage?

Hello , Eric or Keith ,

I have calculated how Innovative Ordnance nerfs will affect dps of this class on a specific parse.

I have taken my Innovative Ordnance parse with 10315 DPS for 146 seconds and 1500000 damage.

I have subtracted 15% from critical damage of Mag Shot , Power Shot , Thermal Detonator and Unload ; 10% from all damage of burning damage of Incendiary Missle and 12% from all damage of bleeding damage of Serrated Shot.

My DPS became 9460 with 1380341 damage.

You wanted to bring Innovative Ordnance to target DPS - 10000.

Max average theoretical DPS of this class with full 248 gear is 10,432 +/- 414.

These nerfs will lower DPS below 10000 and will make Innovative Ordnance weaker than other ranged sustained and melee burst classes.

I want you to reconsider your nerfs and not to lower damage THAT much.

I agree that Innovative Ordnance has very high DPS and that it should be nerfed , but not so much as you want to nerf it.

 

Thank you.

The target DPS you are referring to was used an example as was not intended to be taken literally. 10,000 DPS is not the target DPS. That Target DPS was stated to just be choosen randomly for illustraitive purpuses.

"Another thing about the damage groupings above that might be a little confusing is the reference to “target DPS,” so let us give you a fictitious example to help clarify our meaning. Remember, target DPS varies based on your equipped item rating and any augments, Class buffs, stims, or adrenals that you may or may not be using. For ease of calculation’s sake, we will say the fake target DPS for our example is 10,000. With 10,000 DPS being the target value"

The changes made to IO are quoted from BW as follows:

" Quote:

Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released.

Mercenary

Innovative Ordnance

Reduced the critical damage bonus given by Ordnance Expert from 30% to 15%

Reduced the burn damage of Incendiary Missile by 10%

Reduced the bleed damage of Serrated Shot by 12%

Commando

Assault Specialist

Reduced the critical damage bonus given by Assault Trooper from 30% to 15%

Reduced the burn damage of Incendiary Round by 10%

Reduced the bleed damage of Serrated Bolt by 12%

DevNotes: We adjusted Ordnance Expert / Assault Trooper to reduce the burst damage potential of the discipline, which also lowered its overall DPS. However, that change alone was not enough to bring the discipline down to its target DPS, so we reduced the periodic damage of two key abilities as well. The cumulative effect of these changes is that both the burst damage potential and sustained damage potential for Innovative Ordnance Mercenaries / Assault Specialist Commandos have been reduced by a fair amount to bring them down to their target DPS."

There is no actual number listed for the DPS target number.

From experience I can say that on "average" rng but with very good rotation one can achieve about 9K dps in full 248 as either madness or lightning currently but when you are on target as in attacking non-stop. Sure parses exist of 9,3K-9,5K (non-bugged) but those are on very favorable crits and a controlled dummy environment. Make it 8,7K just in cast setup/ rng or small error is not on your side.Calculate based on that, and remember you get that 8,7K single-target only when you have no downtime, so when the boss or something is actually up to target/attack.

Ur math doesn't wirk. The best sorc madness parse on styrak was around 7k because of target switching. Seems like all u talk is "math". If u want ur math to work go try to do NiM with madness sorcs.

The target DPS you are referring to was used an example as was not intended to be taken literally. 10,000 DPS is not the target DPS. That Target DPS was stated to just be choosen randomly for illustraitive purpuses.

"Another thing about the damage groupings above that might be a little confusing is the reference to “target DPS,” so let us give you a fictitious example to help clarify our meaning. Remember, target DPS varies based on your equipped item rating and any augments, Class buffs, stims, or adrenals that you may or may not be using. For ease of calculation’s sake, we will say the fake target DPS for our example is 10,000. With 10,000 DPS being the target value"

 

 

The changes made to IO are quoted from BW as follows:

 

" Quote:

Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released.

 

Mercenary

Innovative Ordnance

 

Reduced the critical damage bonus given by Ordnance Expert from 30% to 15%

Reduced the burn damage of Incendiary Missile by 10%

Reduced the bleed damage of Serrated Shot by 12%

 

 

Commando

Assault Specialist

 

Reduced the critical damage bonus given by Assault Trooper from 30% to 15%

Reduced the burn damage of Incendiary Round by 10%

Reduced the bleed damage of Serrated Bolt by 12%

 

 

DevNotes: We adjusted Ordnance Expert / Assault Trooper to reduce the burst damage potential of the discipline, which also lowered its overall DPS. However, that change alone was not enough to bring the discipline down to its target DPS, so we reduced the periodic damage of two key abilities as well. The cumulative effect of these changes is that both the burst damage potential and sustained damage potential for Innovative Ordnance Mercenaries / Assault Specialist Commandos have been reduced by a fair amount to bring them down to their target DPS."

 

 

There is no actual number listed for the DPS target number.

OK then , so my dps will become 9460 with full 248 augmented gear and adrenal , but for example my marksmanship sniper does 9435 right now. Marksmanship sniper is ranged burst DPS and is meant to have 5% less dps then IO merc for example , so where is your balance now?

If IO merc is in the same group as carnage mara and deception sin(for example) then it should do aproximatelly same damage. Both carnage and deception have around 10100 dps (and that is why i assumed that 10000 is target dps , most sustained ranged and burst melee have around 10000 dps) , so it means IO should have around this dps, but the nerf will make IO like lighting sorc and marksmanship sniper.

The squishiness is a factor in pvp. Dps sorcs and pts are right there with us though and arguably worse. I don't have any such problems in pve because I'm guaranteed a healer. I'm also usually tanking pve if I'm doing anything hard because, well it's what I'm better at.

 

As I said, dps wise I feel vigi at least is at a decent spot right now no buffs or nerfs needed. Sorry but there is an absolute preponderance of snipers and mercs in pvp as it is. If melee needs a nerf why aren't more people playing juggs/maras/etc. The nerf bat coming this week will shake the current standing though, so I'm not going to continue beating a dead horse.

 

Side note: I'm also incredibly bitter about mercs and others getting an often better version of my reflect. Next time my commando/merc friends ask me to stack fire on karagga I'll do it... on them but only after they've used their reflect.

balancing based on popularity is idiotic. or perceived popularity