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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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So I see no news is still no news.

 

On the plus side, my internet isn't as crappy as I was led to believe (will be so much better when our own dedicated broadband is on next month though). most of my unpacking is done (yay for a new home) and F2P hits next week, so in theory not long after that until Makeb.

 

Anyone else think the timing of the Hall Hood blog may have been a sneaky way for those under a gag-order to try to get some info out there. Obviously the blog itself didn't tell us anything new, but they must have known the questions that would be asked for the follow up - especially after the pulled tweet.

That much noise can't be ignored without showing to the audience at large that they are deliberately ignoring the questions, and by extension, those asking.

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Anyway, rant mode off... I don't see why an estimated due date on story content needs to be kept under wraps. They don't need to tell us any kind of information about what story content is coming, only when. A simple comment like "Expect additional story content to come in 2-3 months" doesn't reveal any kind of information about the content itself. Of course, there will always be people that will poke and prod at the devs to get info about upcoming story updates, but eh... it probably won't be as many as evidenced in this topic.

 

I agree. It's one thing to keep the story under wraps, but they seem to hold this information too close to their chest. I wish that they would realize just by giving us a closer estimate of time (like 6 1/2 weeks or so,) it would quell a lot of the nay sayers. As I noticed Uluain said a few days ago, silence seems to validate those that are vehemently against SGRs. I doubt that is the company's intention, but I hope they are aware of how these copy n pasta answers really sound.

 

I'm betting at this point both the mods and the devs want to discuss openly about this subject. I'm hoping we get some info before SGRs and (possibly) Makeb drop onto the PTRs.

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So I see no news is still no news.

...

 

Anyone else think the timing of the Hall Hood blog may have been a sneaky way for those under a gag-order to try to get some info out there. Obviously the blog itself didn't tell us anything new, but they must have known the questions that would be asked for the follow up - especially after the pulled tweet.

That much noise can't be ignored without showing to the audience at large that they are deliberately ignoring the questions, and by extension, those asking.

 

Ideally the answers would have been posted yesterday (that is if we assume the seven day response time for Ms. Jesse Sky's answers is the standard), so we're still waiting for them. I think they may have delayed Mr. Hall Hood's responses in favour of the Free2Play blog posts and, since Fridays are dead days, we'll be seeing his response(s) on Monday. Questions about SGRA's make up a little over a quarter of questions directed to Mr. Hall Hood (thank you, Uluain), but we are still not sure that Bioware even want to acknowledge those questions, let alone address them. I really do hope Mr. Hall Hood is allowed to talk to us about this subject - he has aid that he enjoys writing romances, so it would be interesting (aside from having our questions answered, obviously) to see if he considers there to be any fundamental differences in writing SGRA's compared to OGRA's and how tropes and stereotypes are used and/or avoided in both instances (i.e. there would have been a lot of expectation to have a traditional femme fatale for the (straight) Male IA as a companion, but I don't believe Kaliyo or Temple really fall into that category).

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I agree. It's one thing to keep the story under wraps, but they seem to hold this information too close to their chest. I wish that they would realize just by giving us a closer estimate of time (like 6 1/2 weeks or so,) it would quell a lot of the nay sayers. As I noticed Uluain said a few days ago, silence seems to validate those that are vehemently against SGRs. I doubt that is the company's intention, but I hope they are aware of how these copy n pasta answers really sound.

 

I'm betting at this point both the mods and the devs want to discuss openly about this subject. I'm hoping we get some info before SGRs and (possibly) Makeb drop onto the PTRs.

 

Would you not be better off seeking clarification that SGRs are even DEFINITELY being added to the game first and foremost? As of right now there has been no official clarification that SGRs are still even planned, much less devloped and ready for release.

 

The two or three anecdotal comments you have from previous employees, made at a time before the entire landscape of the game shifted and its development focus/direction with it...do not constitute confirmation of anything.

 

That, coupled with the fact that BW will not even talk about SGR plus the deleted tweets and totolly ignoring any questions in QA sessions does not lead me to believe that they are even likely to happen at all any more.

 

I am not opposed to SGRs at all (I am opposed to the very unique take that some of the pro SGR crowd have on personal freedom and tolerance within the community but thats another story). All I am doing is looking at the facts, looking at the stone wall of silence from BW and the repeated manner in which they refuse to even acknowledge any of their previous statements....it does not look good for the inclusion of SGRs anytime within the next 6-12 months imo...if at all.

 

The longer it goes on it seems the previous statements were just made the placate that section of the cimmunity whilst they figured out what they were going to do about it....since the direction and entire landscape of the game has changed I genuinely believe the conduct of BW regards this matter is an indication that SGRs are further down the priority list now, than they ever were....

 

You all seem to keep saying that the code is done, the design and content is done and it should be released with Makeb...all I am asking is for one official source of confirmation for ANY of that....you dont have one.

 

It seems much more likely to me that NONE of the work required to implement SGRs has even been scoped at this point.

 

Driz

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Would you not be better off seeking clarification that SGRs are even DEFINITELY being added to the game first and foremost? As of right now there has been no official clarification that SGRs are still even planned, much less devloped and ready for release.

 

The two or three anecdotal comments you have from previous employees, made at a time before the entire landscape of the game shifted and its development focus/direction with it...do not constitute confirmation of anything.

 

That, coupled with the fact that BW will not even talk about SGR plus the deleted tweets and totolly ignoring any questions in QA sessions does not lead me to believe that they are even likely to happen at all any more.

 

I am not opposed to SGRs at all (I am opposed to the very unique take that some of the pro SGR crowd have on personal freedom and tolerance within the community but thats another story). All I am doing is looking at the facts, looking at the stone wall of silence from BW and the repeated manner in which they refuse to even acknowledge any of their previous statements....it does not look good for the inclusion of SGRs anytime within the next 6-12 months imo...if at all.

 

The longer it goes on it seems the previous statements were just made the placate that section of the cimmunity whilst they figured out what they were going to do about it....since the direction and entire landscape of the game has changed I genuinely believe the conduct of BW regards this matter is an indication that SGRs are further down the priority list now, than they ever were....

 

You all seem to keep saying that the code is done, the design and content is done and it should be released with Makeb...all I am asking is for one official source of confirmation for ANY of that....you dont have one.

 

It seems much more likely to me that NONE of the work required to implement SGRs has even been scoped at this point.

 

Driz

 

How about actually doing some research? We have Stephen Reid's comment about SGRAs being a post-launch feature, we have Daniel Erickson's statement from the Guild Summit that SGRA content will be in, like Story content, this year, then we have Gabe Amantangelo's statement that he believes it will be with Makeb which tells us that he has seen SGRA content close to completion, especially given that he believes it is now only a scheduling issue, then we have Hall Hood's tweet that seemingly confirmed Gabe's statement, but it was later removed and I imagine because they both got shot in the foot about it they haven't said anything since Story, not just romance content, is a tightly kept secret for some reason, besides the statement that story content will be more like the Avengers movies going forward, what they mean by that, we don't know.

 

So how about instead of sitting around and asking for it, you actually FIND it yourself.

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It seems much more likely to me that NONE of the work required to implement SGRs has even been scoped at this point.

 

Driz

 

You are right that we are labouring under the assumption that previous statements are not invalidated by time or the persons who issued them having left. This is why we ask for further information from Bioware, from Ms. Berryman, from Mr. Gonzalez and from Mr. Hood.

 

Since there is no disclaimer that statements become invalid after a certain period of time or become invalid after the person who issued them has left, I personally believe that trusting Bioware's intention to introduce this content is valid. I also believe that Mr. Amatengelo was speaking sincerely when he said that he believes that SGRA's would be introduced with Makeb and that it is merely a matter of putting SGRA's on the release schedule. However, because that was not transcribed to the website or made official by others in Bioware (i.e. the Community Team, whose job it is to convey information to the community), I still feel it is necessary to ask Bioware, Ms. Berryman, Mr. Gonzalez and/or Mr. Hood about the status of this content, particularly if we still hold (as I do) Mr. Erickson's statement that story content would be released this year and that SGRA's would be bundled with story content (as it is story content) - but do so with regards to the changes that have occurred at Bioware; that is, asking whether Mr. Erickson's statement is still valid now that Free2Play is being released and that there has been a greater emphasis put on traditional MMO properties and the new emphasis will be put on Cash Shop content.

 

And yes, we have not exactly been paragons of virtue when discussing the content, but it does become grating when we ask for reasonable arguments against the introduction of the content and all we get in return is homophobic vitriol.

 

In the previous thread you quoted me as saying the implementation of the content is not a question of "if but when", and then asked how I could believe that when I know that the statements we have been given are old. I believe that because I still believe that old statements are valid, largely because no one at Bioware has specifically refuted them and (as above) there is no time limit on validity of statements. I assume that Bioware intends to continue its practices of having same-sex romances options and that that includes this game.

 

I realise that you hold me in the greatest contempt, but I do enjoy talking with you.

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Also, I don't see why things that were said/promised by people who left the company are no longer valid. They weren't speaking for themselves, nor it was about a personal project they do on their free time. They were speaking on BWs behalf

 

I've been working in system developement for over 15 years. I've had left jobs and got new ones. Sometimes I leave a project that is continued by others, and sometimes it means I get to continue someone else's work.

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At this point, I just want them to confirm SGRA's so the "LOLZ, they haven't said anything in a long time so that means they scrapped SGRA's! Neener neener!!!" posts will end.

 

Also, I don't see why things that were said/promised by people who left the company are no longer valid. They weren't speaking for themselves, nor it was about a personal project they do on their free time. They were speaking on BWs behalf

 

Indeed.

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At this point, I just want them to confirm SGRA's so the "LOLZ, they haven't said anything in a long time so that means they scrapped SGRA's! Neener neener!!!" posts will end.

 

As I theorized in my big long blogpost linked a few pages back, Bioware would have told us years ago if they weren't doing SGR content at all. The theory still holds, in my mind at least, that given we know they're aware of this thread and how frustrated folks are, that if they'd changed their minds and decided not to include it, they wouldn't string everyone along for months (approaching a year now) after saying 'sure, we're gonna do this!' They would have made an announcement shortly after such a decision was made, take the heat from the subsequent explosion, and then move on.

 

One thing I think is important to remember is that Bioware isn't out to piss us all off. Sure, they're a company, and I personally have less trust in the EA situation than I trust Bioware directly. But in general, the people who work there aren't out to make us all upset. I don't personally believe that they're out to shun or ignore or shut out folks who are in favor of SGRAs. I actually feel really bad for them when they can't tell us about all the cool stuff coming down the pike at some point. However, I tend to agree that the gag orders seem very strict and the paucity of information doesn't help them. I'm hopeful that recent statements from Joveth that they're going to try and be more communicative will pan out. Of course, they could tell us everything and there'd still be some people grousing about it. :D

 

I have a suspicion that if F2P launching now wasn't part of their original gameplan, the SGR situation would have stayed on the original 'by the time the year is up' hints. But crap happened, and thus the gameplan had to change.

 

However, I do not believe they have forgotten us or changed their minds. I have faith they would have (regretfully) told us so if they had decided to scrap it.

 

Patience.

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I have a suspicion that if F2P launching now wasn't part of their original gameplan, the SGR situation would have stayed on the original 'by the time the year is up' hints. But crap happened, and thus the gameplan had to change.

 

However, I do not believe they have forgotten us or changed their minds. I have faith they would have (regretfully) told us so if they had decided to scrap it.

 

Patience.

 

My patience withered and died from malnutrition - they clearly don't have the stones to just admit it's been delayed beyond 'this year, definitely'... hell, answering anything from over a quarter of their MtD follow-up was too hard for them.

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My patience withered and died from malnutrition - they clearly don't have the stones to just admit it's been delayed beyond 'this year, definitely'... hell, answering anything from over a quarter of their MtD follow-up was too hard for them.

 

To be honest, I don't know if I can be bothered anymore. I don't why I should be the one caring about the content and chasing the Community Team for information, when Bioware should be the ones giving a toss about us and giving us information.

 

Ugh, not even the energy to do a verbal table flip.

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My patience withered and died from malnutrition - they clearly don't have the stones to just admit it's been delayed beyond 'this year, definitely'... hell, answering anything from over a quarter of their MtD follow-up was too hard for them.

 

It's not as clear as you might think. We, on the outside, don't know all the whyfors of the situation. We don't know the reasons why they haven't said diddly squat (and I agree, it /is/ diddly squat). I also firmly, politely, and unequivocally disagree with anyone who believes that Bioware doesn't care. I've had the good fortune to meet some of the folks on the team at the last two PAX Easts, and I cannot honestly believe that they don't care. They're good people, and they don't deserve to obliquely be called cowards. Just because you're not getting what you want right this second doesn't mean you won't get it at some point. Again, they haven't said 'sorry, we changed our mind'. Hold onto that VERY firmly.

 

However, I also know there's a time and a place for such frustration, and the eve of the biggest change to the game since launch is not it. The delays have not been awesome on Bioware's part, the info isn't there that you want now now now, and it sucks knowing that SGRAs aren't the company's #1 priority with this game. Buuuuuuut, I'd rather there be a game left for there to be SGR content added to than selfishly fuss over the one section of content one is myopically fixated on. Is it important content? Sure, of course it is. But there's a bigger picture that we should also keep in mind.

 

I'm personally going to wait until after F2P settles down, give it a couple of weeks, see what breaks, see if the Makeb theory is honored... and then start asking more questions.

 

Maybe I'm just too old and mellow, I dunno. :)

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You look pretty fresh to me.

 

My problem is I burnt myself up on talking about this content, it's good to see someone with optimism.

 

I believe we will get this content. Simple as that.

 

However, I also want this content to be /awesome/. As I said in my big blogpost, it's not even content I'm interested in playing, but I believe it's only right and fair that it's there... but YOU FOLKS deserve the best effort Bioware can put into the crafting of the end result, not a shoddy thing slapped in there just to shut people up. That would be far more insulting than the silence we have now.

 

All I can suggest is remembering that the silence isn't some evil person wanting to torment you, it's not malicious in intent.

 

I hope they say something soon. :)

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I'd have more faith in their benevolence, had they not backtracked and deleted the one confirmation of any progress.

 

The communication they've given this year boils down to:

"It's coming with new story, this year"

"We're putting story on the back-burner, we're not sure when that will get updated"

"SGR? I don't know, it might still be on track this year"

"I can confirm that abstract guess.... wait, no I can't. DELETE"

 

They'd have to know what they're even doing, before they could be malicious.

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I want to be patient. I really do. I want so bad to love this game, and everything that exists in the game, I do love. But this one thing that's missing really hampers my enjoyment. SGRAs are a staple of BioWare games that have always contributed greatly to my enjoyment of them. It's a part of the making the story your own.

 

There are a lot of valid reasons for this to be important to someone. I don't happen to be homosexual, myself. For me it's a simple case of my favorite thing in fiction is an awesome female character. I find the female characters generally more interesting and compelling.

 

For me, that means I want the character I control to be female. It's also pretty much universal that my favorite companion out of each group is female. I want to romance my favorite. I want my favorite to be the one by my side, and I want the one by my side to be my romance.

 

They've made the story such a big part of this game that I want to enjoy it in full, in one glorious experience. But as it is, I feel like I'd have to enjoy it piecemeal. I can either enjoy the main character of my story and miss out on the romance I want to see, or I can play a main character I find less compelling in order to see that romance.

 

The story and companion interaction is my favorite aspect of a BioWare game.

 

So you can see why I find this issue so important. And when the issue is that important to you, nothing is more frustrating than silence. I'd rather have no hope and just go ahead and make my decisions on how I play the game and whether I play the game knowing there was no SGRAs coming, than to have hope that one day, I'll be able to play the way I want to play.

 

As it is, I feel as if I can only play a few of my least favorite classes, because I'm holding on to hope that I can go through my favorites the first time the way I want to. At the same time, I'm not sure my patience will pay off, because Bioware is silent.

 

It's also important to get the acknowledgement done because it's not like just confirming SGRAs is the end of the road. It's only the beginning, We also have to know how they are going to do it. Are they going to just throw us a bone by making one class have one companion that swings both ways when they add companions? Are they going to introduce new companions that are gay for each class? Are all future companions going to be like HK-51, and for all classes, and if so does that mean that one of these will be a SGRA, but our only option? Will SG flirting be enabled? Will they just remove the gender flag and allow anyone to romance anyone?

 

All these questions matter, and need to be answered, but can't even be addressed until they finally start talking to us. Those answers matter now, because what happens in the future has bearing on what choices I make now. If current companions will never have SGRAs, there is no need for me to wait to play certain classes hoping for that.

 

It's hard to hear people ask for patience when I've been patiently waiting almost a year for this news.

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Slaign, I totally get what you're saying, and you're very articulate with why you want what you want and how it hampers your full enjoyment of games. I feel a lot of the same thing when I play other games that /never/ let me play what I want, and I always, /always/ have to choose a second-best game-path and either get bored and play something else, or sort of shrug and learn to like what I do have. I too have held off on playing certain things in other games, waiting for the promised additional content that would make me a happier camper. Other than writing a game myself (hah!), there's never going to be a game that I'm perfectly happy with in terms of story, with all respect for the folks here at Bioware raising the bar for what I will and will not 'settle for'.

 

And you're right, you shouldn't have to settle. It's been a year, and I've been waiting for other things in the game that aren't even as visible or most likely on the devs' radar as this must surely be (300+ pages of commentary?). It really has turned into a 'take a dump or get off the pot' sort of situation at this point.

 

I really do hope that we all hear something soon after F2P. I'll give 'em a little extra grace period due to that circumstance, but after that... not so much.

 

Fingers and toesies crossed!

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It would be nice to know what's happening with SGRs, my gameplay has stagnated because of it. I have characters I want to have SGRs with that have reached the point where I can't advance them any further without risking going past the cut-off point for the romance arc (I've already done that with one of them), I have characters I want to create that I can't without knowing that they'll have the SGR option. It's almost at the point where I can't play anymore, and patience can only take you so far (especially when you're paying while you wait).

 

With F2P just around the corner, I can wait a little longer but if we hear nothing after that, then I just have to assume it's not ever going to happen. The fact that this iteration of the thread has reached 300 pages without being closed and started anew does not bode well for us, it seems they're not even paying attention anymore.

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It would be nice to know what's happening with SGRs, my gameplay has stagnated because of it. I have characters I want to have SGRs with that have reached the point where I can't advance them any further without risking going past the cut-off point for the romance arc (I've already done that with one of them), I have characters I want to create that I can't without knowing that they'll have the SGR option. It's almost at the point where I can't play anymore, and patience can only take you so far (especially when you're paying while you wait).

 

With F2P just around the corner, I can wait a little longer but if we hear nothing after that, then I just have to assume it's not ever going to happen. The fact that this iteration of the thread has reached 300 pages without being closed and started anew does not bode well for us, it seems they're not even paying attention anymore.

 

Yeah, I'm basicly in the same boat. I simply got frustrated with the game because of this and have not so much as turned it on in the last 2 months. I was enjoying the game. I like my characters (I am an alt-oholic) but I have no interest in playing anymore until I get to play my characters "correctly" aka: the way I really want to.

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I don't think they should bother with SGR anymore. I pushed for it early on, but things have changed. I'm sure if the game had been a huge hit, they would have already announced an upcoming update to romance options that would have expanded on the existing ones and added whole new same gender options. Alas, the game has not been that huge success. Their budget is so limited now that I don't even think we're going to getting ANY class story content in the foreseeable future, let alone something as specialized as SGR. Maybe if F2P is a big hit and they make a lot of money off the Cartel Market things will be different, but as it sits right now I don't think there's money in the budget for it.

 

I'm close to completing 3 characters to level 50. I did a romance on my first one and was so underwhelmed by it that I didn't even bother with the other two. "Romances" in SWTOR aren't like in other Bioware games. They're nowhere near as in-depth or dramatic. It's a few flirts and a couple of "fade-to-black" moments. It's silly, really. You're not missing anything.

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