EDIT 31/1/2012:

 

Let this thread die please.

 

Sniper damage ramps up immensely at 50, and now that I'm gear and using a good leth/eng spec, I can seriously **** people up. Yeah, it does lack heals/utility, but I'm doing significantly more damage than other ranged DPS

 

I completely RUINED a battlemaster Commando today in a 1v1. That felt damn good.

 

Stick with it.

 

------

 

ORIGINAL POST:

 

I'm level 45 now, and with each warzone I play, I get more and more disheartened with the class...

 

My damage seems to be pretty much on-par with all the other ranged DPS classes, but I feel very lacking in utility. The commando is hitting me for 3k~ grav rounds which are on a 1.5 sec cast time, but he also has a ranged stun (compared to our ranged 'blind' that breaks on damage), he has an absorb shield, heavy armour and heals that recover 25%~ of his HP which he can spam.

 

Then we have the Consular/Sorc, who has telekinetic throw which does 1k damage per tick, and then project which hits for between 3k to 5k damage. They also have heals and a shield which seems to not have any cooldown, and they also have a ranged stun.

 

So, my sniper is doing the same damage as these other ranged classes, but lacks the utility.

 

Which leads me to the question... why play a Sniper?

 

I could just reroll to one of these other classes, and be doing the SAME dps.. but I also have heals too!

 

I've thought this for a while now, but I always thought "it just sucks 'cos you're low level"... but now I'm almost at 50, and guess what... it still sucks pretty damn hard!

 

Don't get me wrong, this class is very playable in PVP (which is the main reason I play MMOs), but when I see bountyhunters/troopers/sage/sorcs outdpsing me and doing 100k healing too, I really feel like something is wrong

 

I suppose I will try to persevere and get to level 50 + farm the PVP set before I completely dismiss the class, but meh... really losing alot of motivation now -_-

Edited January 31, 2012 by Kyris_Xiandrii

Well our utility is pretty weak I find the problem is that other dps specs do more damage to tanks then us which makes us as a class void.

 

We do no more damage then any other dps spec but our damage vs tanks is considerably lower then hybrid classes.

 

 

So in effect we are not really helpful to the group as a whole and we are really weak vs tanks.

 

 

That being said I just try to kill healers and other dps, and slow down tanks.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Corpsevapor

Cinsidering tha sniper needs cover and activation time is most abulities... Sniper should have most burst dmg in game. Which is not true. Sorcs and others dps do better burst dmg without any having to have cover or ling as activation time

and my ambush crits for 6k, FT crits for 4.2k and takedown crits for 5k, what's the problem?

 

cwutididthar, those numbers, similar to 3-5 k projects from sorcs/sages are available only when popping all your stuff and nuking someone.

and my ambush crits for 6k, FT crits for 4.2k and takedown crits for 5k, what's the problem?

 

cwutididthar, those numbers, similar to 3-5 k projects from sorcs/sages are available only when popping all your stuff and nuking someone.

 

 

well thats not entirely true a geared sorc will hit for 1400 per lightning tick without popping sod all

Edited January 14, 2012 by fozbozjimjam

Yes compared to other dps classes like SORC we are weak, its a big balance issue, 1;1 a sorc would win 70-80% of the time if hes good

and my ambush crits for 6k, FT crits for 4.2k and takedown crits for 5k, what's the problem?

 

cwutididthar, those numbers, similar to 3-5 k projects from sorcs/sages are available only when popping all your stuff and nuking someone.

 

Good job you just destroyed a level 11-49 with no pvp gear.

I was in a WZ just now with 4 sorc's (all dps, not sure what spec because they have a lot of crossover and I'm not familiar enough with the debuffs to know what spec it was). All 4 of them where good players, and because of that It was one of the most frustrating WZ of my life. Normally I don't mind sorcs because most of them are terrible players It seems, Possibly due to the fact that they get easy-mode leveling so they are not taught class skills like los,kiting,cooldown useage etc. But a good sorc who knows what LOS is will never lose a fight to a sniper no matter how good the sniper is. The simple fact that A) They are not punished for spamming down to 0 force and B) heals even when in dps spec are very strong meaning that all it takes is for them to win is to LOS us using one of many Los places in every BG and cast 2-3 heals. Heals when In dps spec should not be strong, take an elemental shaman from wow(closest comparison I could think of) yes they can heal, but its extremely mana intensive and they heal for very small amounts compared to a legit healer. Perhaps it is just the fact that Mauraders have an MS effect and snipers don't that makes it tough but the lack of utility or MS that snipers have is a huge crutch in pvp. I am leving a sorc now for pvp because I am close to quitting due to how broken snipers are in pvp atm. Edited January 15, 2012 by Imspecial

and my ambush crits for 6k, FT crits for 4.2k and takedown crits for 5k, what's the problem?

 

cwutididthar, those numbers, similar to 3-5 k projects from sorcs/sages are available only when popping all your stuff and nuking someone.

 

where are you pulling those numbers from?

 

fully champion/battle master geared vs lvl 1-49 opponents?

 

my ambush crits for 4k~ with 6% expertise damage bonus as a marksman with champion sniper rifle. (rest of the gear is tionese/columi). FT for alittle less and takedown about the same as FT.

 

for the OP:

The problem with snipers is that they suck against anything that has proper mitigation. (tanks and marauders with CD's popped). If you spec MM or engineering.

 

Lethality fixes this issue but unless you have high crit the energy regen will suck.

 

Still against other targets you should do fairly fine, also you are not a frontline "hey im here" type of class, play in a style that supprises and ambushes the enemy from tactical good positions and you'll do very good. CC/annoy the tanks and run away

 

Still i'd like to see snipers get abit higher dps as a tradeoff to their immobility and shortcommigns toward classes with good mitigation.

Good job you just destroyed a level 11-49 with no pvp gear.

 

That is not entirely true. I have shot a 50 Merc in nice gear down in 4 shots (5 counting, I forget the name, armor breaker one). And I hit him for 4-4.8k (Yet to get a 5k on him) alot. See him in Huttball many times a night,

 

And I have also gotten faily consistent 3.3-4k on a 5 Commando I play against regularly.

 

Under 50's are fun tho, 5k Medals all day long. Wooo. And 1 shotting lowbies with a Exposlive probe just adds to the effect.

 

<snip>

 

Still i'd like to see snipers get abit higher dps as a tradeoff to their immobility and shortcommigns toward classes with good mitigation.

 

I don't think we need more damage just more utility, pvp is all about CC and survivibility. Some small QOL changes that I think would bring snipers more in line with mauraders(our other "pure" class would be these)

 

- We need a range stun, every other range class has a ranged stun, we don't.

 

- We need a healing debuff at least equal to the one that mauraders have, preferable with a long duration so that we are not made free kills by hybrids LOSing and healing up.

 

- We need a slow that is decent, Force lightning applys a 50% slow on its target, our best slow is 30% and in both cases is only applied by a long cooldown(20+) dot.

 

- Cover useable when snared, a snare is meant to be a movement control ability not a hard stun, which is what it is like when you are snared as a sniper.

 

- Revamp cover. It should be a bonus when used, but not so critical to the class that without it we are as good as a stunned target when not in it(lethality less so).

Well tbh it's because you're bad

 

I'm level 34 and am 1-2 in every warzone in kills and damage. Snipers are fine. I was highly rated in WoW though so that could explain why I don't understand where these QQ posts are coming from. I think snipers scale with skill really well ie I have every single ability keybound and I use all of them.. I don't just herp derp ambush / snipe people and then complain when I lose a fight.. no I'm constantly utilizing everything we have (interupts, flash bang, stun, shield probe/evasion/entrench, ALWAYS kiting melee-- the thing about cover is that it's instant so you can run, snipe, run, snipe.. you don't have to be stationary.)

 

If you're comfortable with the amount of abilities we have (I have A LOT of keybinds, and everyone of them I am comfortable clicking in a clutch situation) and you know how to kite, then I believe sniper is one of the best classes.. so much potential.

 

For perspective I have a 20+ sorc and 30+ guardian, both of which never deal as much damage / hks as my sniper.

Well tbh it's because you're bad

 

I'm level 34 and am 1-2 in every warzone in kills and damage. Snipers are fine. I was highly rated in WoW though so that could explain why I don't understand where these QQ posts are coming from. I think snipers scale with skill really well ie I have every single ability keybound and I use all of them.. I don't just herp derp ambush / snipe people and then complain when I lose a fight.. no I'm constantly utilizing everything we have (interupts, flash bang, stun, shield probe/evasion/entrench, ALWAYS kiting melee-- the thing about cover is that it's instant so you can run, snipe, run, snipe.. you don't have to be stationary.)

 

If you're comfortable with the amount of abilities we have (I have A LOT of keybinds, and everyone of them I am comfortable clicking in a clutch situation) and you know how to kite, then I believe sniper is one of the best classes.. so much potential.

 

For perspective I have a 20+ sorc and 30+ guardian, both of which never deal as much damage / hks as my sniper.

 

I wasn't highly rated in WoW but I agree with your sentiment. I never had issues with either MM or lethality unless it was being annoyed because I got rolled by a 50 in PvP gear or demolished by an operative who caught me at lower health.

 

The class has it's role and it's not necessarily to do insane damage in WZs, it's to do tactical burst damage as MM which seems to be what everyone is referring to.

Not sure of serious... We have one of the best assortments of PvP goodies out there.

 

We got an instant AoE blind, which is epic if you are in a premade with people who know *** they are doing and not breaking blinds like morons. We got Leg Shot, which is the ONLY real hard counter to Force Speed, since it works through resolve. We have the best AoE knockback. We get a 20% AoE damage reduction shield, which rocks in Alderaan and Voidstar. We have the only ranged interrupt in game. And we still got a stun too. You can even spec into -45% accuracy debuff and cover screwer in one button.

 

Really, what else do you want? Compared to Sorcs and Mercs, we are loaded with CC and such things as entrench and evasion are often on a healing level of ******ishness. You may shrug it off, but in many cases Entrench and that bubble save much more health than any heal would, you are just too used to this and don't appreciate the thing.

 

 

Damage-wise we are fine too, if I can pop all my cooldowns plus biochem stuff (and before you start whining, all big nukes are a product of biochem usage) I can nuke down people ridiculously fast, just a couple of matches ago I popped a level 50 ball carrier with 5200 ambush and some nice Followthrough after that.

 

Defense-wise, buffed I run around with 16900 HP + another 10k HP on demand with medpacks and 530 expertise. With all of the above, I do not feel particularly squishy.

 

 

My only gripe with snipers is all kinds of cover bugs that keep popping up

Not sure of serious... We have one of the best assortments of PvP goodies out there.

 

We got an instant AoE blind, which is epic if you are in a premade with people who know *** they are doing and not breaking blinds like morons. We got Leg Shot, which is the ONLY real hard counter to Force Speed, since it works through resolve. We have the best AoE knockback. We get a 20% AoE damage reduction shield, which rocks in Alderaan and Voidstar. We have the only ranged interrupt in game. And we still got a stun too. You can even spec into -45% accuracy debuff and cover screwer in one button.

 

Really, what else do you want? Compared to Sorcs and Mercs, we are loaded with CC and such things as entrench and evasion are often on a healing level of ******ishness. You may shrug it off, but in many cases Entrench and that bubble save much more health than any heal would, you are just too used to this and don't appreciate the thing.

 

 

Damage-wise we are fine too, if I can pop all my cooldowns plus biochem stuff (and before you start whining, all big nukes are a product of biochem usage) I can nuke down people ridiculously fast, just a couple of matches ago I popped a level 50 ball carrier with 5200 ambush and some nice Followthrough after that.

 

Defense-wise, buffed I run around with 16900 HP + another 10k HP on demand with medpacks and 530 expertise. With all of the above, I do not feel particularly squishy.

 

 

My only gripe with snipers is all kinds of cover bugs that keep popping up

 

Please do NOT drag biochem into this, that and crew skills is a issue in its own and not tied to class viability. its somethign every class got if they level up biochem.

I was all about the sniper durring the beta, when I only got up to 17 or so with him. Sniper range just isn't good enough to be a "Sniper." Not to mention the lackluster dps and how incredibly easy it is to be disrupted (Its the only ranged class that cant use most of its abilities when its immobilized). Sniper is basically a High-Risk No-Reward class right now; which is a shame because I was really looking forward to bursting down stuff from long range, not chipping away from damn near pointblank range.

 

I recently re-rolled as a Juggernaut, who I'll probobly be playing until Sniper is fixed. But, IMO, to fix sniper you'd either have to rebuild him from the ground up, or let him put on heavy armor and change the class name to "Stormtrooper."

Edited January 15, 2012 by moxpanda

I feel like a hunter trying to pvp in wow =\

 

they should have just made the cover an active shield ability we could use

Edited January 15, 2012 by Delease

I feel like a hunter trying to pvp in wow =\

 

they should have just made the cover an active shield ability we could use

 

So true! I have an 85 Hunter on WoW and they have some pretty glaring weakness in PvP. Why do I always go for the classes that have such weaknesses compared to others? I love my Hunter, I love my Sniper, and I refuse to play a faceroll class, maybe that's why.

 

Snipers take some skill that's for sure, and they need a lot of things fixed especially the bugs and energy management for some of their specs. You can go for abilities that look great, but you end up trading an arm or leg in order to use them. I feel it's one of those classes that isn't just strong all-around, so when you choose your spec you have to be gimped in other areas.

We have the only ranged interrupt in game.

 

You are mistaken about that. Trooper/BH and Inquisitor/Consular interrupts are ranged as well. Not sure about Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior though.

I don't believe mercs get an interrupt, PTs do and its range is not as far as ours, but has a shorter cooldown. SI interrupt is the exact same as ours

Can we please keep this discussion around lvl 50 pvp with 50 pvp gear. As Bioware themselves have stated, it's impossible to balance pvp at all levels even with bolster. So If you are not discussing lvl 50 pvp balance please don't post your "YOUR JUST BAD IM LVL 34 AND KICK ***" posts because they contribute nothing to thread.

 

I could link tens of screenshots of me topping warzones as a sniper, does that mean that Snipers are fine, No. It means I was against 8 players who where either A) not as skilled, B) lower level or C) My team supported me beter and I was able to survive longer.

 

http://i.imgur.com/PVz9B.jpg - For example this one taken over a week ago, I am top yes, but look, we had 3 healers who kept me alive amazingly and we where against players who where terrible. Also I abused the hell out of consumables(look at my left bar). That does not make snipers fine.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Imspecial

I rolled lethal on my Sniper and I barely use cover besides suprize burst with Snipe + Probe. I find that I have a lot more utility for the WZ, with the good AE + AE Snare, and I feel a lot better playing that rather than MM and having straight DPS and relying on cover to much.

 

But, I do agree, Snipers are a bit behind. Its a shame when I fight a lv50 PVP geared Sniper on my lv15 assassin and he had to run from me because I kept breaking LoS on him.

Gaidax is right, there's loads more utility to us than just flashbang! Which is, as you failed to mention, an AoE blind, not single target like the abilities you're comparing it to. And as far as I can see our burst is one of the best (looking at warzone end stats) and our range makes it pretty easy to pick strategic targets off (don't know what you're talking about moxpanda! Its LONG range)

 

I didn't do anything special to get my damage good so I'm not sure what to tell you, make sure you're speced right and stack some surge including a relic (and adrenal if you're biochem [which I think you should be {don't troll me!}]) to pop for bigger burst. Ye it's lower on tanks but we have a few things to get around it, or just target squishies, it's a team game, take out healers and soft dps and your team should take out tanks no problem. Or you could go lethality, but I wouldn't recommend it! (anyone pvping lethality? let me know).

 

As for survivability, we have loads of things to keep people at range, don't forget to use Debilitate, ballistic dampeners are amazing, if you need a bit more go eng!

 

PS:

Imspecial, stop pretending to be a GM with the blue writing, you're not fooling anyone! lol

I'm glad others have noticed the shortcomings of the sniper. Thing is, snipers in our own void are perfectly fine, but add sorcs/mercs into the equation and I agree with the sentiment of our lack of that something.

 

I'd seriously think with the prerequisite of having to use cover there would be some damn benefit from it, but that is far from true. Yeah sure, I can reset my ballistic dampers every 6 sec, but is that what is required? Everything about the sniper is more work for equal or lesser results.

 

Right now an equally geared merc can wreak me with far less key presses and keybinds. I have to use diversion, distraction, snipe, ambush, series of shots, takedown shot, explosive probe, shield probe, evasion, entrench... AND cover shuffle for ballistic dampers to beat a freaking merc. If rng favors the merc, their damn spammable tracer missiles will crit one too many times and destroy me no matter what.

 

Same crap for sorcs. Lethality is where its at for pvp, but I really hope Bioware does something to cover to make mm worthwhile.

 

Valor rank 54 in full champion gear if it matters. We don't suck, mercs/sorcs are just a bit much. I seriously hope to see a nerf to their damn utility soon.

The issue is our cover defense bonus doesnt work against 95 perceny or the classes. The result is us wasting a gcd or two to get into cover to use any of our skills. meanwhile they have just unloaded a quarter of our health.... I love the class but we are so screwed right now in so many ways.