Annihilation and Watchman specs were the only specs I really cared for with the Sentinel and Marauder. I liked them because they were indeed the most powerful, but also they required something that very few players seem to have these days....skill.

You might be wondering why I am JUST now posting a gripe on this...it's because I took a break after 2.0 went live, just now got my Assassin and Shadow to 55 and geared since I have been back. Now I started working on my Sentinel and soon to follow Marauder.

So I hit the WZs and work my way up that ladder again...taking some punishment here and there due to being under-geared...and wow, after I finally got all geared up and fully augmented, I have noticed my DPS has dropped considerably since the days I used to PvP hard core with those specs.

I at first noticed the huge DPS drop and figured maybe I had lost my touch with that spec...after all, I did take a small break from the game and class. So I decided to do a bit of research and found out that there was an underhanded PvP nerf that affects the only tree I ever really cared for. Why? Nobody really played that spec. Noobs couldn't play it because it was too hands on...required too much focus to your buffs and cool-downs. So not many players played that spec...and the few who did, usually were good at it...but they were far and few between. Was it really necessary to nerf Watchman and Annihilation?

I rarely seen anyone complain about that spec...you always see the complaints focused at the derp Smasher's and derp Sweeper's specs...so instead the Derp Smashers get a buff and the spec many were scared of got hit with an underhanded nerf?

Somebody put me straight here...where am I understanding this wrong at...because what I am seeing and understanding makes no logical sense.

Annihilation and Watchman specs were the only specs I really cared for with the Sentinel and Marauder. I liked them because they were indeed the most powerful, but also they required something that very few players seem to have these days....skill.

 

You might be wondering why I am JUST now posting a gripe on this...it's because I took a break after 2.0 went live, just now got my Assassin and Shadow to 55 and geared since I have been back. Now I started working on my Sentinel and soon to follow Marauder.

 

So I hit the WZs and work my way up that ladder again...taking some punishment here and there due to being under-geared...and wow, after I finally got all geared up and fully augmented, I have noticed my DPS has dropped considerably since the days I used to PvP hard core with those specs.

 

I at first noticed the huge DPS drop and figured maybe I had lost my touch with that spec...after all, I did take a small break from the game and class. So I decided to do a bit of research and found out that there was an underhanded PvP nerf that affects the only tree I ever really cared for. Why? Nobody really played that spec. Noobs couldn't play it because it was too hands on...required too much focus to your buffs and cool-downs. So not many players played that spec...and the few who did, usually were good at it...but they were far and few between. Was it really necessary to nerf Watchman and Annihilation?

 

I rarely seen anyone complain about that spec...you always see the complaints focused at the derp Smasher's and derp Sweeper's specs...so instead the Derp Smashers get a buff and the spec many were scared of got hit with an underhanded nerf?

 

Somebody put me straight here...where am I understanding this wrong at...because what I am seeing and understanding makes no logical sense.

If you mean the healing you get from DoTs that was nerfed a long time ago, or it could be that because there were some buffs to other classes that your perception of what you used to do is no longer the same.

If you mean the healing you get from DoTs that was nerfed a long time ago, or it could be that because there were some buffs to other classes that your perception of what you used to do is no longer the same.

No, healing seems about right to me...well, since the nerf...I mean my actual DPS. I used to pull number approaching the million mark...anywhere from 700K to 1 Mill....now, hell I am lucky to get 300K. That's not good. I asked around and did the research and apparently Annihilation and Watchman spec is now considered a gimp spec. It got hit hard with the critt nerf apparently. Somehow the critt nerf affected that spec big time, because that spec depended largely on the critts to even it out. At least this is how I interpreted the problem to the spec. So my question is...why?

players learned to cleanse

I find that hard to believe. I have done a lot of PvP with my Sentinel this past couple weeks, and I can count on two hands how many times I have seen players cleans...healers excluded, because they were always good at cleansing themselves.

You're probably feeling the aftershock of the crit nerf. There was a pretty harsh nerf to crit come 2.0, so the less often you can use an auto-crit skill, the harder this nerf hit you. It's why focus was relatively unscathed, while watchman felt the burn pretty bad (pun unintended).

edit: TBH, I think the nerf came from when it felt like everyone was specced as a watchman. When the devs crushed it, everyone migrated to combat for the buffs, or focus, because it's just that overpowered. This happened around the time that most classes were getting a savage nerfing. So, a majority of PVP'ers went straight to marauder and sentinel, and now the devs can't nerf anything without alienating what popular specs remain.

You're probably feeling the aftershock of the crit nerf. There was a pretty harsh nerf to crit come 2.0, so the less often you can use an auto-crit skill, the harder this nerf hit you. It's why focus was relatively unscathed, while watchman felt the burn pretty bad (pun unintended).

 

edit: TBH, I think the nerf came from when it felt like everyone was specced as a watchman. When the devs crushed it, everyone migrated to combat for the buffs, or focus, because it's just that overpowered. This happened around the time that most classes were getting a savage nerfing. So, a majority of PVP'ers went straight to marauder and sentinel, and now the devs can't nerf anything without alienating what popular specs remain.

So pretty much, time to drop the Marauder and Sentinel and start working on my Vigilance Guardian and Vengeance Juggernaut. Sigh...

ANyway, thanks for setting that straight. Pretty much what I suspected...the major hit came with the crit nerf.

So pretty much, time to drop the Marauder and Sentinel and start working on my Vigilance Guardian and Vengeance Juggernaut. Sigh...

 

ANyway, thanks for setting that straight. Pretty much what I suspected...the major hit came with the crit nerf.

or learn to play Combat/Carnage they are really good especially with all the smash monkies

or learn to play Combat/Carnage they are really good especially with all the smash monkies

The thought did cross my mind. I know how to play those specs, thing is they just bore me to tears. It is what it is. Crying won't change anything, so might as well adapt.

So pretty much, time to drop the Marauder and Sentinel and start working on my Vigilance Guardian and Vengeance Juggernaut. Sigh...

 

ANyway, thanks for setting that straight. Pretty much what I suspected...the major hit came with the crit nerf.

Well actually vigilance is not that much better than watchman :/ You can actually get top DPS a good amount of the time as watchman, if you truly are very good at it, but your burst potential is subpar. Plus, tell me why I personally should settle for top DPS by a modest margin in watchman on a good day, when I can spec smash and almost double everyone else's damage in the same situation? ....... numbers aren't everything obviously, but yeah.

So pretty much, time to drop the Marauder and Sentinel and start working on my Vigilance Guardian and Vengeance Juggernaut. Sigh...

 

ANyway, thanks for setting that straight. Pretty much what I suspected...the major hit came with the crit nerf.

YOu shoud just turn to combat spec, as a vig guard i would give bioware a boar-sized baby if they gave me a root to master strike, stealth, temporary invincibility and rebuke.

YOu shoud just turn to combat spec, as a vig guard i would give bioware a boar-sized baby if they gave me a root to master strike, stealth, temporary invincibility and rebuke.

I know that spec is superior...for now. I just can't get in to the mind numbing aspect of it. I would be sitting in my chair yawning from boredom the whole time I would be playing that spec. I would rather just shelf my Marauder and Sentinel until if/when the Devs decide to fix the broken spec that I actually enjoy playing.

No, healing seems about right to me...well, since the nerf...I mean my actual DPS. I used to pull number approaching the million mark...anywhere from 700K to 1 Mill....now, hell I am lucky to get 300K. That's not good. I asked around and did the research and apparently Annihilation and Watchman spec is now considered a gimp spec. It got hit hard with the critt nerf apparently. Somehow the critt nerf affected that spec big time, because that spec depended largely on the critts to even it out. At least this is how I interpreted the problem to the spec. So my question is...why?

While doable occasionally the old numbers u mention sound.. A bit exaggerated.. Anyways if you are only averaging 300k now its because you have obviously forgot how to play the spec. It has its problems sure but nothing much has changed.

also its def worth giving combat a try. The 2.0 changes made it less faceroll, you have to be more on your toes to play it well now

The crit nerf hurt it pretty bad, but it hurt everyone pretty bad.

They have hinted at "fixing crit" with 2.4

I run 94% crit multiplier on my smash monkey and i get so bored of him i rarely play that character in pvp anymore.

I played carnage this weekend on him, and that's also a boring spam massacre gore blah fest. Strong for tearing through just about any target, but so uninteresting.

I actually enjoy my sniper, merc, sorc, sin, jugg, and op more than my mara for dps, even though the only one comparable in damage is the sniper.

But there's always an abundance of smash monkey goons out there, and the average carnage mara just isn't good (though a good one is devastating).

I see a few guys still running annihilation, but i can't remember the last time i died to one. I specifically go after them because i know i can kill them before the can finish ramping up to moderately dangerous levels of dps.

While doable occasionally the old numbers u mention sound.. A bit exaggerated..

Are they? I did around the mil mark and 100kish healing occasionally pre 2.0

It just req. oposition that didnt faced the ditch once you built up momentum.

People claimed 100k heals where impossible after the heal nerf. Abusing biochem stim into the rotation obviously went under everybodys radar.

Running into a healer that spammed cleanse was however = insta quit.

I still play watchmen and still put out decent numbers. Make sure you are specced right to gain centering when you are getting attacked and the one where you gain centering through attacks. I nearly constantly have zen going for auto-crit burns.

BTW I doubt you did 700k-1mill consistently pre-2.0 and now can only do 300k occasionally. It wasn't nerfed that bad.

I know that spec is superior...for now. I just can't get in to the mind numbing aspect of it. I would be sitting in my chair yawning from boredom the whole time I would be playing that spec. I would rather just shelf my Marauder and Sentinel until if/when the Devs decide to fix the broken spec that I actually enjoy playing.

Are you sure you're thinking about Combat/Carnage when you say boring, and not Focus/Rage? Combat/Carnage isn't actually easy to play. You have to pay attention to when certain perks proc. It actually became quite a bit more difficult to run with 2.0, but it's burst capability increased quite a bit, as did it's sustained dps (you get to Precision Strike/Gore quite a bit more often than pre-2.0).

Plus, with its new Beserk (a massive alacrity boost), managing your focus/rage is a more important aspect.

Give it a try before writing it off. I think you may be pleasantly surprised as to its skill and concentration requirements.

For me in 1.2 expertise buff killed PVP.

Before 1.2, sustain and burst specs were viable, now it's only burst because of healing. Try to kill a healer using a sustain damage, it's impossible.

I used to play Anni because I love the spec and my survivability was insane, was really hard to kill a competent Anni/watchman.

Now critical rating is ridiculous, warriors seem overpowered because they have auto-crit abilities in a burst spec, healers can be killed in a few seconds if 2 good burst dps knows what to do.

My advice is to play what you like to play, though play Smash/Sweep if you want to kill a healer fast, it's marauder/sentinel job to be a nightmare to healers.

Are you sure you're thinking about Combat/Carnage when you say boring, and not Focus/Rage? Combat/Carnage isn't actually easy to play. You have to pay attention to when certain perks proc. It actually became quite a bit more difficult to run with 2.0, but it's burst capability increased quite a bit, as did it's sustained dps (you get to Precision Strike/Gore quite a bit more often than pre-2.0).

 

Plus, with its new Beserk (a massive alacrity boost), managing your focus/rage is a more important aspect.

 

Give it a try before writing it off. I think you may be pleasantly surprised as to its skill and concentration requirements.

Yes, i played it this weekend.

And you're right that rage management becomes more of an issue with the alacrity buff compared to rage or annihilation. Gotta set up ahead of that onslaught to optimize every swing.

That guaranteed force scream crit is my favorite part of carnage, so yes, i know the procs :-) i think that makes it the ultimate healer killer with massacre spam and multiple rooting options.

I leveled from 25-55 playing carnage, stuck with it a while at 55, decided in most scenarios being a smash monkey was more effective because people don't know how to stand apart.

Then got bored and have mostly retired the character.

Smash is boring.

Carnage is almost as boring.

Annihilation is nerfed.

I actually didn't play smash until i was 55. After studying the trees i thought it seemed the most bland, and it is, but it is effective against noobs.

players learned to cleanse

As a healer I guarantee this is NOT the case. It's shocking how bad healers/players are at cleansing in swtor. I've never seen players do this function so poorly as in swtor.

Could be worse, could be like madness for sins.

Yeah I'll concede that you guys have it even worse :/

Are they? I did around the mil mark and 100kish healing occasionally pre 2.0

It just req. oposition that didnt faced the ditch once you built up momentum.

People claimed 100k heals where impossible after the heal nerf. Abusing biochem stim into the rotation obviously went under everybodys radar.

 

Running into a healer that spammed cleanse was however = insta quit.

well ye sure occasionally in the right wz. This guy is acting like he did it every wz.. never said it was a impossible and if he was that good he would be averaging more now. Its not been nerfed that much.. Maybe more reliant on stacking power and zen autocrit dots due to crit changes but it plays the same..

and sure I've done over 100k heals post Nerf a couple of times before 2.0 it was certainly doable.

The problem with watchman isn't the actual dmg.. It still has good sustained dmg, cleansing aside. The problem is that pvp is all about burst to kill healers etc. I'd say on the scoreboard on average i do more as watchman then combat however combat dmg is more effective burst dmg then watchmans sustained which is easily healed through.