I'm throwing my vote to this idea. The quality of the playerbase has, by and large, dropped significantly since launch & RotHC. If we could shuffle Depths of Manaan, Blood Hunt, Copero, Umbara, Lost Island & Kaon (and make LI & Kaon hard/interesting again please!) into a "T2" catagory that would be lovely.

Personal preference would be to take out Veteran mode for all of the above, buff Master to a roughly equal difficulty across all the FPs with Trash no longer just a snooze fest as it is in the FPs that are not Copero and give them a min iLevel requirement of 242 as Umbara has... maybe call them Nightmare Flashpoints? or rename vets to story mode, level 70 trinity fps to Veterans, and these to master... Could be fun.

Engaging 4man content hasn't seen much outside of Umbara & Copero. The SoR prequel fps are just kinda terrible, too much HP for the bosses and/or too many stealthouts & phase changes that prevent progression on the boss. The last good 4man content we had were the Macrobinocular & Seeker droid quests... Lets have H4 levels of difficulty come back. Resurrect that feeling you had when you first ran Kaon and there was danger around every corner.

Personal preference would be to take out Veteran mode for all of the above

I think this would be bad. It would be punishing for the more experienced players who can run Vet fps solo and the less experienced ones who can't just jump into master from story and will be left facing a much more difficult learning curve...this would compound the issue of the quality of the playerbase, not solve it.

By all means, make the more challenging fps a tier 2 difficulty or restrict some by level if you must (after all from a story perspective it makes little sense for a level 20ish to play anything after cademimu or red reaper) but do not remove difficulty tiers. Look how big the gap between story and hardmode ops has become since they nerfed storymodes to the ground. We don't want that for flashpoints as well.

This is anecdotal as I don't have statistics, only personal impressions... however...

I have Always found Hardmode Flashpoints to be easier than Tactical Flashpoints. In Hardmodes (I'm feeling ornery today so I refuse to call them 'master modes') people are less likely to break cc or to not know kill order. Theres a level of cognition that I simply do not find in Tactical Flashpoints. Theres also more interesting mob composition in Hardmode Flashpoints, there are healers, trash, tanky mobs, controllers, casters... etc. Theres variation that simply doesn't mesh well with the "leeroy jenkins" nature of Tactical Flashpoints.

Should Tactical Flashpoints be something that we want to keep, then I think there needs to be another balance pass on the level of the Storymode Ops Massacres and that is something that I personally do not want.

I believe that people who wantonly break cc, don't use defensive cooldowns, and/or do not understand kill orders should not be allowed or invited into Hardmode Flashpoints, let alone Hardmode Ops. This is a personal belief, you may agree or disagree as you like, but this is my stance as what I seek from this game is engaging content. Content which requires me to be awake and that punishes screwups to a discernable degree. Content which is the end goal, not simply a step to achieving something else.

The absolute best thing that I think should be instituted is a system similar to FFXIV's Hall of the Novice to promote the idea of raising your skill to the level of the content and not degrading the content to the level of your skill.

Heres a link to a very brief overview for those who are unfamiliar: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/5986509d96ac23ee572152933a3d2c4227dfdc2e

P.S. I want them to un-remove mechanics from SM Ops. If they want to keep the damage profiles the same thats fine, but give us back the Towers of Hanoi please, and make Kephess interesting again!

This is anecdotal as I don't have statistics, only personal impressions... however...

I have Always found Hardmode Flashpoints to be easier than Tactical Flashpoints. In Hardmodes (I'm feeling ornery today so I refuse to call them 'master modes') people are less likely to break cc or to not know kill order. Theres a level of cognition that I simply do not find in Tactical Flashpoints. Theres also more interesting mob composition in Hardmode Flashpoints, there are healers, trash, tanky mobs, controllers, casters... etc. Theres variation that simply doesn't mesh well with the "leeroy jenkins" nature of Tactical Flashpoints.

I would suggest that you are blaming the wrong thing here, except that there are hints that you are well aware of the true problem.

The problem isn't the flashpoints themselves. They are what they are. The question of whether changing them from Normal Mode to Tactical Mode was a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different matter, and one I'm not going to discuss here.

No, the problem is the groups that do them. V/TFPs attract, by their nature, lots of GF PuGs, made up of whatever people happened to be at the front of the queue. M/HFPs attract more organised people who are better at playing, partly because they are better and therefore not afraid of hard-mode content, and partly because they are often pre-made groups who launch in GF to get the daily bonus. Take that same pre-made group through the equivalent V/TFP, and they will find it substantially easier than the M/H version.

Saying just "Tacticals are harder than Hard modes" without including a reference to the nature of the players is like comparing apples and screwdrivers.

even in veteran it's always me at 70 and three other guys at lvl 27, 43, and 36. the FP is hopeless. even the vet level needs tank, healer and 70's.

I totally agree. It feels like hard mode even with four 70's who know their roles. If you throw in even a 65, it's impossible. It needs to be toned down or limited only to level 70s with good gear, at least 240 and preferably 244 with augments etc.

I totally agree. It feels like hard mode even with four 70's who know their roles. If you throw in even a 65, it's impossible. It needs to be toned down or limited only to level 70s with good gear, at least 240 and preferably 244 with augments etc.

really, impossible? a well geared level 70 can do it solo with a companion, you know...how can it be so hard for 4 level 70s who should be killing the bosses *at the very least* twice as fast than a single player w/comp.

anyway, they'll be nerfing all 3 modes next tuesday :/

"I can do this FP solo, so nothing to change" - the best argument ever. Sarcasm, of course. Do it solo, be proud of yourself. Yes, this flashpoint is badly balanced. I hope that after tomorrow's patch it will become easier for players who have not reached level 70 or 236 gear.

the solo mention was in response to someone complaining veteran mode copero was too difficult for level 70s as well, don't you think it's relevant in that context that it can be in fact completed by a single player with a companion? surely 2 or 3 or 4 level 70s together should not have huge issues with it by comparison, except it's apparently the game's fault if they do. anyway, in a few hours bosses across all modes will have less health, hopefully that'll be enough.

the solo mention was in response to someone complaining veteran mode copero was too difficult for level 70s as well, don't you think it's relevant in that context that it can be in fact completed by a single player with a companion? surely 2 or 3 or 4 level 70s together should not have huge issues with it by comparison, except it's apparently the game's fault if they do. anyway, in a few hours bosses across all modes will have less health, hopefully that'll be enough.

I think that your comparison was incorrect. Players have different playing skills and different gear raiting. Which character, specialization and equipment you use for solo VM "Traitor among the Chiss"? In any case, now, after last patch, it's really easier.

Traitor among the Chiss and Crisis on Umbara should be Level 70 only.

I agree, just got put into an "in progress" group doing Vet TatC and no one was above level 50 so the giant droid that constantly spawns adds was impossible to get past. We had a tank and 3 DPS and got stomped. I believe that even if there was a healer it wouldn't have worked as we didn't have most of our abilities and utilities.

I think that your comparison was incorrect. Players have different playing skills and different gear raiting. Which character, specialization and equipment you use for solo VM "Traitor among the Chiss"? In any case, now, after last patch, it's really easier.

Of course with a dps companion (rank 50 obvs) I only did it on well geared toons I know (more or less ) how to play (watchman sentinel and deception assassin, hatred for the second boss, both 248s with old augments).

But I could also do it on a commando in lesser gear (mostly 240s with no augments on the left side) using a healing companion. I'm very mediocre on mando/merc, I'm sure a good player could have used a dps companion even if not supergeared. Oh, I did the bonus boss only once with Doc healing and I still regret it (looong fight ).

I still don't think it's unreasonable to expect a group of level 70s to be able to do what a single one can (especially when that single one is me ). And, you know, with a new piece of content some learning pains should be expected. Anyway, moot point now, it's patched and it sounds like it's made enough of a difference. I do suggest people to try vet solo, they may surprise themselves

Of course with a dps companion (rank 50 obvs) I only did it on well geared toons I know (more or less ) how to play (watchman sentinel and deception assassin, hatred for the second boss, both 248s with old augments).

 

But I could also do it on a commando in lesser gear (mostly 240s with no augments on the left side) using a healing companion. I'm very mediocre on mando/merc, I'm sure a good player could have used a dps companion even if not supergeared. Oh, I did the bonus boss only once with Doc healing and I still regret it (looong fight ).

 

I still don't think it's unreasonable to expect a group of level 70s to be able to do what a single one can (especially when that single one is me ). And, you know, with a new piece of content some learning pains should be expected. Anyway, moot point now, it's patched and it sounds like it's made enough of a difference. I do suggest people to try vet solo, they may surprise themselves

240 minimum, huh. You propose to surprise yourself to those people, who, perhaps, do not want to surprise themselves, but want a comfortable game in group. How about low lvl players in random group? What should they surprise themselves in this FP?

240 minimum, huh. You propose to surprise yourself to those people, who, perhaps, do not want to surprise themselves, but want a comfortable game in group.

How about low lvl players in random group? What should they surprise themselves in this FP?

First off, I totaly agrre that TotC is totaly overblown in difficulty.

It's nice and fun for a premade group, but for pugs it's a nightmare. And while I mostly got through it okay, it is totaly unporportional to msot other vet fp's, and if you have them in the same category as all the other vet fp's that going to create hughe problems. I asked around in the guild, and on fleet, and of more than 40 runs people told me about 6! were completely sucessfull. sure, there#s more complaints when something doesn#t work than when it does, but not this much.

On the other hand, I don#t think gear requirements are the way to go with this. I think we need one of 3 things:

1) more similar vet fp difficulty. drop the extreme difficulty ones, and up the difficulty in the to easy ones.

2) categorize them, maybe instead of solo and story as both basically singeplayer, make it solo, then story as the normal difficulty tactical fp's, vet for the higher difficulty tacticals and master for, well, what is master now.

3) get rid of the tactical ********. You finally managed to implement an obvious incentive for tanking/healing with role-in-need, and if that is present for leveling as well, and for somewhat easier content, there#s absolutely no reason at all to keep the tactical around. It was a bad idea from the start, and it has not worked out well since then, with the quality of people dropping constanly even in Master mode, because folks have nowehre to learn proper group mechanics any more.

Then they can do it in a group? You just said it's easier after the patch.

 

we were talking about level 70s. A level restriction for some of the newer stuff isn't a bad idea, just for group finder (if level 15 wants to do it with their friends, they should) especially now that servers have been merged.

A little easier for a group 230/236 with tank and healer. But not easy for full dps group or mostly low lvl group. Even if one of them in full 242/248. Low lvls take aggro and die immediately. Especially melee dps vs bonus boss.

The problem with the tactical FPs (sorry I can't get used to the new names) is the lack of a trinity combined with the incoming damage from mobs in certain places / certain bosses / certain instance / big trash packs being borderline absurd without a healer.

Sure, I can solo every one of them with my healer companion (some are faster than others - this new one is stuffed to the gills with trash - making it a slow annoying slog).

They need to choose one or the other - either make these with low HP trash that doesn't really pose a threat to a dps character without heals (unless they try to Leroy Jenkins half the instance), stack kolto stations and barrels everywhere (some have them, most do not), or go back to requiring a trinity and setting minimum levels.

Even without revamping these, they could greatly improve them with a serious tuning pass - tone down and / or decrease some of the trash and balance the bosses to be of similar difficulty / damage done (the second boss of BH is stupid OP compared to say all of most every other FP - both the damage done as well as the stupid knock backs with the koltos placed at the outer edge, the last boss of Tython also hits really hard on a non tank).

Anyways, I have plenty of issues with this game (mostly the lack of investment in new content) - but leaving these FPs to be so hit or miss (most are fine and still fun, some are like 'f this - drop group') is just sad.

Oh and like several others, I find even doing something like Lost Island (assuming its not a group that can't follow basic 'stand under the monkey - like between its legs under') on Master easier and less frustrating than certain tactical FPs.

EDIT TO ADD: Lowbie bolster is still subpar leaving lowbies a liability in many of these FPs. I queue, see two or more lowbies, and hit decline - this should not be the case.

EDIT EDIT TO ADD: This specific FP should not be tuned as is or should require minimum level / roles - it is a waste of time with lowbies and no healer.

Also wow at how much they nerfed SM ops - they are even easier than some of these tactical FPs - very sad.

what you need is neither item requirement nor a level restriction..... you need people who know just a tiny little bit about mechanics.... if you have explosive round spamming lvl 70 mandos in 248 they will deal less dmg then a lvl 20... bad players are bad players.. no matter what gear or level they have...

same with the item rating for umbara master mode... if you get a 242 tank with no augments you are screwed.. he will get globaled at the first boss... but he can queue.

most of you people crying seem to be bad payers, too. and i guess you usually think from 12 p.m. to noon....

if you're lvl 70 and full 248 that means you've played your toon hundreds if not thousands of hours in FP's, raids and group content. that means you know what you're doing. you know the instances. you know the mechanics. plus you've got all your talents, and skills and gear.

sure the bolster might make a lvl 20 do 80% or 85% or 90% of whatever it's tuned to do on a max lvl character... but it's still not the same thing. because the lvl 20 hasn't been doing endgame on that toon for 4 or 5 or 6 years. so even with whatever half-*** bolster mechanic there is, they're still not within 5 lightyears of what a geared, experienced player can do.