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Addressing Tank and Healer drought


Hawk_IV

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I hope BioWare reads this, I want to help improve the game as much as possible.

 

Tank and Healer drought has been a problem since BETA, and yet the problem still feels fresh today. Not enough tanks or healers, too many DPS. The only place that feels balanced is Warzones, where its more fun to have more DPS than anything. This is because the math is wrong for the group content in the game.

3 Healer specs, 3 Tank specs, 18 DPS specs. That ratio is 1:1:6 but the groups are usually in multiples of 4 with the ratio being 1:1:2. This means there are 3 times more DPS specs than what the ratio should dictate.

I understand the reasoning behind having more DPS, the primary purpose of the game is to defeat the enemies in our path. But with the group ratio being 1:1:2 for most content, there just isn't enough tanks or healers to go around.

 

Sentinels/Marauders and Gunslingers/Snipers. These 2 classes have 3 DPS specs each, and in my opinion are the reason for the Tank & Healer drought. People who play these classes cannot do anything but DPS.

This means that 25% of classes are locked into the DPS role and cannot switch to a tank or healer. So we don't just have an issue with the ratios being off in terms of specs = roles needed, but we have an issue of players being locked into the most popular role in the game.

 

One thing that BioWare has not done with SWTOR is introduced new classes or specs into the game. Since Vanilla we've had the same classes, the same specs, and everything. Actually that is wrong, there were more specs in vanilla because with the skill trees, people came up with hybrid specs.

With everyone being locked into our Combat Proficiency, it has been years since we've been able to do anything but the specs outlined for us by BioWare.

 

If BioWare created additional specs it would be a huge improvement to the game. They could create more tank and healer specs, and address the droughts for those roles. It would bring people back to the game, a new thing to try out.

Sentinel/Marauder Healer and Gunslinger/Sniper Tank have been ideas people have thought of since BETA. Watchman's Zen heals gives us that idea of a Jedi Sentinel using their saber techniques to inspire allies while using their Zen force powers to heal people. A sniper's Entrench gives us that idea of them having a tank spec where they create a bunker to take damage. Marauders and Gunslingers can follow suit easily, with a Marauder healing the team with force lifesteal, or the Gunslinger tanking with all his gadgets.

 

Creating more specs would also address the debuff system that is also flawed math-wise. It is extremely difficult to have all the DPS debuffs on an 8person ops team while also having all the raid buffs and raid utility. There is only ONE WAY to get all the DPS debuffs on the team while having each class present in the group AND having 2 ranged dps (which is basically required for some boss fights).

The One Way: Guardian/Shadow as Tanks. Tactics Vanguard (Sunder+Tech debuffs), Sentinel (Melee debuff), Sage DPS (Force+Area debuffs), Gunslinger (Ranged debuff), Scoundrel/Commando as Healers.

The Sentinel and Gunslinger will have to take care of the Internal/Elemental debuff with either Watchman or Dirty Fighting. Sage has flexibility simply becuase both specs give the same debuffs. The Sage also has the only Force Cleanse on the team, even though they're DPS. Scoundrels cannot DPS if you want to have every class present in your ops group, unless your team is fine with 3 melee dps and 1 ranged.

 

Basically the paragraph above makes people's heads hurt trying to get all the buffs/debuffs and utility figured out. With more specs in the game, it'll allow more flexibility for ops teams. Sentinel healers would allow Scoundrels to DPS more often. Gunslinger tanks would allow Sages and Commandos to finally DPS together while still providing all the raid utility. Sentinels could provide another Force cleanse, finally Sages would not be the only class for that. Overall I think it would improve group flexibility and freedom of spec choice.

 

I'm not trying to tell BioWare what to do, it is their game, and I know their team is busy already. But if they see this, maybe my ideas will help and hopefully someday we will have a better balance for creating groups.

We need more tanks/healers and we need more flexibility for creating groups.

 

-

Sincerely from a loyal SWTORian since closed BETA (September 2011) <3

Edited by Hawk_IV
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I suspect this question has also been around since Beta as well, but ... IS there really a tank/healer drought or just a tank/healers willing to pug drought?

 

I'll tank for my guild, but for the most part won't tank for pugs or group-finder. It's just likely to be a miserable experience with dps who won't let you do your job.

 

Likewise for heal spec. I do sometimes pug as heals, but you get a lot of bad dps/tanks who rather than look at what THEY can do do make things better after a wipe just heap blame on the healer.

 

The end result is that even though my main spec is heals, and heals is what I feel most comfortable with for HM content, I primarily just dps when I pug. Less headaches, and less aggravation all around.

 

Then there's the veteran vs master mode flashpoint issue. Tanks/heals are still needed for master mode, but for veteran? It just seems pointless to que for vet as a tank or heal spec. The few times I've tried going heals for vet I end up dps'ing anyway since the dps just aren't doing their jobs properly. I think this lack of a need for healer/tanks in veteran flashpoints is part of the problem since it creates dps who don't respect them, or know how to work properly with them, in the modes where they are needed.

 

TLDL: it's not a tank/healer draught, it's a group etiquette/bad player problem that leads to tanks/heals not wanting to join pug groups.

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I'll tank for my guild, but for the most part won't tank for pugs or group-finder.

 

I agree. I stopped playing tank for pugs a long time ago. Not worth it.

 

What do you want, Hawk_IV? Bioware gave an incentive to queue as the role in need. You get special rewards. But if a horrible experience -like tanking for pugs- outweighs the gain...yeah...it is, what it is. Don't tank for pugs. full stop. That has nothing to do with Maras and Snipers being DPS-only classes.

 

At every player who starts threads like this "wäh...i don't find no tank", or "it takes hours before gf pops"...why don't you queue as tank? Why do you want to be the dps. Change yourself, and maybe other people will follow your lead. But it is always the same. I want the others to change. I don't want to change myself. Invent new classes or class distribution so I can stay dps. I demand "give me more tanks".

 

Always the same...since 2012. You have Veteran Flashpoints. That's Biowares answer to this question. You got healing station for bossfights.

 

One tipp: get into a proper guild. Take turns in tanking. And you're good to go.

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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MaraSents are the best tanks in the game, what are you even talking about ;)

 

this won't ever be solved because (IMO ofc):

 

a) majority of people prefer to dps, considering it the easier role (it's not true but w/e)

b) majority of people who do tank and heal don't feel comfortable doing it with complete strangers because especially healers tend to be blamed for other people's mistakes.

c) inexperienced tanks can be propped up by good dps and/or good healers. inexperienced healers can be propped up by good tanks and/or dps. but if you're stuck with inexperienced dps, stuff will take forever to die regardless. I occasionally queue as a tank and I regret it at least half the time for this very reason.

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I don't heal/tank cause you are the easiest to blame when things go wrong. DPS is pretty straight forward. Clear trash mobs/keep them off the healer. More or less. I understand I make mistakes as a healer/tank and I am not here to say I am great but I feel like I am good enough that not everything that goes wrong is my fault. Lol. So I just play it safe and run DPS. I find the SWTOR community to be quite aggressive. Players nerd rage when someone on the team doesn't spacebar. People get very angry very easily. I get why people don't want to play those roles and be yelled at or cussed out.
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I don't heal/tank cause you are the easiest to blame when things go wrong. DPS is pretty straight forward. Clear trash mobs/keep them off the healer. More or less. I understand I make mistakes as a healer/tank and I am not here to say I am great but I feel like I am good enough that not everything that goes wrong is my fault. Lol. So I just play it safe and run DPS. I find the SWTOR community to be quite aggressive. Players nerd rage when someone on the team doesn't spacebar. People get very angry very easily. I get why people don't want to play those roles and be yelled at or cussed out.

 

There is a specific time and place to watch cut scenes. There is no reason when your running a MM/FP should anyone not be utilizing SB on cool down. Story mode is for the reason of watching the cutscenes. He’ll most FP’s have solo mode now. Go their and watch them. Leave it out of MM for the love of god please.

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There is a specific time and place to watch cut scenes. There is no reason when your running a MM/FP should anyone not be utilizing SB on cool down. Story mode is for the reason of watching the cutscenes. He’ll most FP’s have solo mode now. Go their and watch them. Leave it out of MM for the love of god please.

 

I am not saying this is wrong, I am just saying instead of freaking out and swearing just say this. Lol. Every time I get a group and someone doesn't space bar it's people going straight to rage mode. I start watching the cutscenes just to spite that guy. I agree, when I am doing flashpoints I want to get through it quickly, no need to flip out like a spaz though. That's the only reaction it seem. Either quiet nobody says anything or people pissed off and swearing over dumb things. People that play this game have no chill.

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I lost my old account and recently started a new account my issue personally I really don't know the meta anymore like I used to in vanilla I also miss my old preorder crystal... My current issue can best be described when I first played this game it was my first mmorpg and over the years I've decided that I actually like tanking and well I really don't know what to roll... I've looked on forums and YouTube and well mixed responses forums say Shadow & Assassin are best but I used to main a shadow kira build and well I thought it was well an annoyance avoidance tank... I really don't want to do either of those classes partially because of the super bland storylines and well besides obviously they are only really great on like just one raid and for everything else they are about average or well unwanted as a tank in one raid where they can be basically one shotted by a boss... My other issue is that youtube swtor academy says that for pve the ranged classes are the best and well every forum saying that the crappiest tank is the vanguard/powertech only because of the temporary shield while a few videos say powertech and vanguard are the best tanking classes... In all forums and videos except for one video say Jedi Guardian and Sith Juggernaut are the second best class and the one that said it's the crappiest tank ever is because of the rage bar and the hard to get rotations out correctly because limited and dwindling rage bar... Edited by HartAtkOneOhOne
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There is a specific time and place to watch cut scenes. There is no reason when your running a MM/FP should anyone not be utilizing SB on cool down. Story mode is for the reason of watching the cutscenes. He’ll most FP’s have solo mode now. Go their and watch them. Leave it out of MM for the love of god please.

 

This ^^^! A thousand times this ^^^!!! No matter how politely it's asked there will always be someone in group that lets the whole cutscene play through. No matter how fast they rush through the rest of the FP they will sit and let the cutscene play. On the whole I wish the cutscenes could be removed from all modes above Story Mode.

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I mostly heal master flashpoints with randoms. Most of the runs are smooth (you can outheal some stupidity and not so great tanks/dps.

 

Only on two occasions my healing has been criticized.

I know it wasn´t my fault (dd not following mechanics or not using dcd´s) but it hurt nonetheless.

That´s why I prefer to run with friends/guildmembers and ts.

So I can imagine how healers feel, when they get criticized and they don´t know that it wasn´t their fault.

 

On the other hand I haven´t seen that many great healers out there ...

(Sorc heals who use group heal on 4 players and opers who let the tank die - I´m looking at you.)

Edited by Ahwassa
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If I may offer some input. Been playing the game since beta, but more off and on since KOTFE timeframe. The tanks and healers are still here, they just don’t PUG as much. Namely because of the issues random groups bring. I can’t tell you how many times I run into dps that want to ‘go, go, go’ or pull something first just because they’re impatient.

 

Most people play this game to relax and having to deal with ADD riddled idiots who act like they’re on speed takes away from the enjoyment of the game. Why bother with all that when I have a set group of friends and guild mates who enjoy pushing content while socializing and having a good time? Most MMO don’t have a tank/healer ‘drought’. Most of them just got tired of dealing with a toxic player base that is the equivalent of ‘Karen’ wanting to speak to the manager....

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My $0.02:

 

1) Tanks/Healers have always been a gating function in every game that supports the trinity. Some of it is mental (don't like the role) and some of it structural (resource gathering is traditionally faster on highly geared DPS than on tanks/healers).

 

That said, this game does a fairly good job at quantifying and rewarding tank/healer behaviors. Warzones acknowledging and rewarding for heals and protection is an example of that.

 

2) PUG-life issues. I honestly think the perception of a problem is worse than the problem here. I have been running my Immortal Juggernaut through a lot of vet and mm flashpoints and, so far, out of what has to be over 50 runs (probably more) I have had exactly one negative experience and that was where three dps vote-kicked me from a vet flashpoint with no explanation (presumably they wanted to replace me with a companion healer).

 

Everyone else has been anywhere from completely silent to fun and supportive. Bottom line is Flashpoints are nowhere near as toxic as dungeons are in WoW even when people do dumb things. Now ranked PvP is a different animal wrt to toxicity but let's just ignore that (like I ignore many people in arenas after things don't go the way they expect ;) ).

 

Anyway, the structural issues are what they are and are not going to change. The class preference issues are the same (DPS players love their dps numbers). But for those who are hesitant due to previous bad experiences I would say give it another shot. It has been far better than I expected.

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I'm a player that actually likes to play MM FPs with PUGs. It's different every time and you see different tactics and sometimes find yourself in situations that guild groups or friends never end up in. Though true is also FP groups used to be a lot more social, small talk, greetings, questions and all that. There used to be more communication, more exchange of experience, these days you are lucky to get a greeting. And pugs often lack that chill, like someone else already wrote. Just having fun together without being too focused on command points per hour rates like a lot of people were during the 5.0 cycle.

 

Most of my characters are tanks, a few healers and some rare dps in between. Though I rarely queue with the latter, too impatient when being used to tank and healer waiting times for an invite.

Still though, the ignore lists on my tanks, and to a degree on the healers too, is long since I put anyone on it that is just rude, doesn't play with the group but against it or starts raging and blaming as soon as something goes wrong. I play FPs for fun, if you are messing with that, I don't want to play with you again.

Granted I don't know if I'm not on several ignore lists either, since I usually don't bother with climbing over rocks or crates just to circumvent trash groups that die in a few GCDs just as fast and usually want to do the bonus boss too if there is one. And for a time I too used to stop skipping cut scenes when the only word someone said in group chat was SKIP!11! without even a greeting or anything else at the beginning or maybe just a please added. I'm still a person, not some drone or better programmed bot that is only there to get you to this or that reward.

One more reason why I avoid to queue for the grind and go go go farm FPs like Hammerstation.

 

Now looking at my guild or friends in game, there are many players able to tank or heal, and they do that often enough even if they main dps characters, but usually not on their own, at least half the (ops) group has to consist of players they know and know how to play together in a group. Because it's simply way more fun to play with people that keep your share of the fun in mind too.

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2) PUG-life issues. I honestly think the perception of a problem is worse than the problem here. I have been running my Immortal Juggernaut through a lot of vet and mm flashpoints and, so far, out of what has to be over 50 runs (probably more) I have had exactly one negative experience and that was where three dps vote-kicked me from a vet flashpoint with no explanation (presumably they wanted to replace me with a companion healer).

 

Everyone else has been anywhere from completely silent to fun and supportive. Bottom line is Flashpoints are nowhere near as toxic as dungeons are in WoW even when people do dumb things. Now ranked PvP is a different animal wrt to toxicity but let's just ignore that (like I ignore many people in arenas after things don't go the way they expect ;) ).

 

Anyway, the structural issues are what they are and are not going to change. The class preference issues are the same (DPS players love their dps numbers). But for those who are hesitant due to previous bad experiences I would say give it another shot. It has been far better than I expected.

 

You Sir have won the PUG lotto then. While not all groups are bad my personal experience is that more than half the groups have one or more individuals who seem to be going out of their way to make the FP miserable for everyone else.

 

Although I should note that I only run Veteran FPs as I will only run Master and above content with a group I can be in voice chat with. And a large part of the problem with Veteran FP groups is largely to due to the group role requirements being so weakened that bad behavior is practically encouraged.

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I like healing random MM flashpoints and I follow a few simple rules:

 

1. Communicate. Always say hello and participate in some basic banter to check if the group can communicate in case there's gonna be a need to discuss tactics.

 

2. Check achievements. As healer I like to check at least the tanks achievements if we're doing one of the harder FP's, just in case. If people are obvious Hammer Station graduates we discuss tactics before moving forward.

 

3. Votekick toxic dps. I honestly don't have patience for snarky dps who play badly and blame tank or me when they just stand in aoe, attack gold mobs instead of clearing weak trash first or do other derpy things like jumping in before tank. They're easy to replace, so I enjoy the idea of them getting kicked and waiting another 40 mins for a pop :) . (I don't mean new players who wanna learn, those are fine, I mean the ones who suck and think they're pros)

 

4. No drama. If someone is being toxic I just put them on ignore, I don't wanna take part in online sperging. We're complete strangers so I don't know your playstyle and your favorite shortcuts/tactics, either discuss beforehand or stop complaining.

 

Honestly, it's rare to get a bad run, people mostly are cool and polite, I haven't experienced many of those horror stories people keep posting on these forums. You sometimes get angsty edgelords who think they know everything, but that's maybe 1 in 20 runs, at least for me.

Edited by Iffyluse
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changing marauders and snipers won't fix the problem. You can't make people play tanks and healers if they aren't fun to play, and if there is no real "need" for them.

 

there are some fundamental game designs at work here that prevent more people playing the tank and healing specs

 

1) healer and tank dps is atrocious in those specs. level up as a healer spec and you have almost no offensive abilities. while respec'ng on the fly isn't hard or expensive with cartel coins, not having a dual spec option hurts this.

 

2) healing companions are very very strong. they need to be or the pure dps classes would suffer trying to level, but this leads to..

 

3) easy soloing of master mode flashpoints by a few classes

 

4) pugging vet modes as a tank is an exercise in frustration now that none of the tanks have any reliable self healing. 3 dps and you as a tank spec in hammer station and the dps are all gogogogogo so you can't even use your rest ability to heal up when you get thrashed. plus, you aren't really needed. neither are healers although a 3 dps 1 healer comp goes further and faster.

 

and lastly

 

5) unless you are raiding, or playing a class that can't solo mm red reaper there is actually no need for tanks or healers for advancement.

 

you can get all the gear you need except the raid set by chaining hammer station vet.

 

LOTRO made this same mistake years ago by making the game too accessible. do you want to know what happened just this last year when they made it hard again? they lost more players than returned. the simple fact is that today - at least in the west - casual players vastly outnumber the more classic, traditional mmorpg player and those casual players are the ones dropping cash in the shops. As we continue to have severe labor shortages and overworked laborers in the west, the amount of time available to game will also continue to plummet. there is a pretty direct correlation between the great recession and start of the economic recovery in the US and when the race for world first raid completion in world of Warcraft became dominated by Europeans.

 

Anyway just like with a faction imbalance on a server, you can't make people play something they don't like or want unless there is some fantastic reward at the end of the rainbow. as it stands, only a couple of specs really need their raid set.

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I really enjoy playing tanks and healers. Like, having bad players in PUGs is part of the fun; it challenges me to do something different, it forces me to min/max my cooldowns and actually think about how I have to approach each group of mobs.

 

But my issue currently is story stuff. I love taking my time and doing every side quest and watching the cutscenes. I love being able to build a story with my character and get attached to them. So because of this, I feel like I am forced to make a DPS class just so it's easier to clear stuff solo. Right now, I'm level 42 on Tatooine Republic side and I am still having a hard time doing the Heroic +2s by myself as a healer. I haven't tried playing tank solo but I imagine it's easier since the tank's DPS classes seem better? I'm a Jedi Sage right now and I'm really worried about the content later in the game taking me forever to complete just because of how low my DPS feels even if I change specs to Balance or Tele(referring to the solo Rishi/Korriban flashpoints you do at the start of Revan).

 

I love tanking and healing, I'll do it any day with anyone. But when it comes to story stuff and solo things, I just want to play a DPS only class because it feels easier and less of a struggle. Does that make sense?

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I really enjoy playing tanks and healers. Like, having bad players in PUGs is part of the fun; it challenges me to do something different, it forces me to min/max my cooldowns and actually think about how I have to approach each group of mobs.

 

But my issue currently is story stuff. I love taking my time and doing every side quest and watching the cutscenes. I love being able to build a story with my character and get attached to them. So because of this, I feel like I am forced to make a DPS class just so it's easier to clear stuff solo. Right now, I'm level 42 on Tatooine Republic side and I am still having a hard time doing the Heroic +2s by myself as a healer. I haven't tried playing tank solo but I imagine it's easier since the tank's DPS classes seem better? I'm a Jedi Sage right now and I'm really worried about the content later in the game taking me forever to complete just because of how low my DPS feels even if I change specs to Balance or Tele(referring to the solo Rishi/Korriban flashpoints you do at the start of Revan).

 

I love tanking and healing, I'll do it any day with anyone. But when it comes to story stuff and solo things, I just want to play a DPS only class because it feels easier and less of a struggle. Does that make sense?

 

it used to be relatively easy to level as a healer. but when disciplines came out and so many classes lost base class abilities it neutered ALL THREE of the healers damage wise.

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I hope BioWare reads this, I want to help improve the game as much as possible.

 

Tank and Healer drought has been a problem since BETA, and yet the problem still feels fresh today. Not enough tanks or healers, too many DPS. The only place that feels balanced is Warzones, where its more fun to have more DPS than anything. This is because the math is wrong for the group content in the game.

3 Healer specs, 3 Tank specs, 18 DPS specs. That ratio is 1:1:6 but the groups are usually in multiples of 4 with the ratio being 1:1:2. This means there are 3 times more DPS specs than what the ratio should dictate.

I understand the reasoning behind having more DPS, the primary purpose of the game is to defeat the enemies in our path. But with the group ratio being 1:1:2 for most content, there just isn't enough tanks or healers to go around.

 

Sentinels/Marauders and Gunslingers/Snipers. These 2 classes have 3 DPS specs each, and in my opinion are the reason for the Tank & Healer drought. People who play these classes cannot do anything but DPS.

This means that 25% of classes are locked into the DPS role and cannot switch to a tank or healer. So we don't just have an issue with the ratios being off in terms of specs = roles needed, but we have an issue of players being locked into the most popular role in the game.

 

One thing that BioWare has not done with SWTOR is introduced new classes or specs into the game. Since Vanilla we've had the same classes, the same specs, and everything. Actually that is wrong, there were more specs in vanilla because with the skill trees, people came up with hybrid specs.

With everyone being locked into our Combat Proficiency, it has been years since we've been able to do anything but the specs outlined for us by BioWare.

 

If BioWare created additional specs it would be a huge improvement to the game. They could create more tank and healer specs, and address the droughts for those roles. It would bring people back to the game, a new thing to try out.

Sentinel/Marauder Healer and Gunslinger/Sniper Tank have been ideas people have thought of since BETA. Watchman's Zen heals gives us that idea of a Jedi Sentinel using their saber techniques to inspire allies while using their Zen force powers to heal people. A sniper's Entrench gives us that idea of them having a tank spec where they create a bunker to take damage. Marauders and Gunslingers can follow suit easily, with a Marauder healing the team with force lifesteal, or the Gunslinger tanking with all his gadgets.

 

Creating more specs would also address the debuff system that is also flawed math-wise. It is extremely difficult to have all the DPS debuffs on an 8person ops team while also having all the raid buffs and raid utility. There is only ONE WAY to get all the DPS debuffs on the team while having each class present in the group AND having 2 ranged dps (which is basically required for some boss fights).

The One Way: Guardian/Shadow as Tanks. Tactics Vanguard (Sunder+Tech debuffs), Sentinel (Melee debuff), Sage DPS (Force+Area debuffs), Gunslinger (Ranged debuff), Scoundrel/Commando as Healers.

The Sentinel and Gunslinger will have to take care of the Internal/Elemental debuff with either Watchman or Dirty Fighting. Sage has flexibility simply becuase both specs give the same debuffs. The Sage also has the only Force Cleanse on the team, even though they're DPS. Scoundrels cannot DPS if you want to have every class present in your ops group, unless your team is fine with 3 melee dps and 1 ranged.

 

Basically the paragraph above makes people's heads hurt trying to get all the buffs/debuffs and utility figured out. With more specs in the game, it'll allow more flexibility for ops teams. Sentinel healers would allow Scoundrels to DPS more often. Gunslinger tanks would allow Sages and Commandos to finally DPS together while still providing all the raid utility. Sentinels could provide another Force cleanse, finally Sages would not be the only class for that. Overall I think it would improve group flexibility and freedom of spec choice.

 

I'm not trying to tell BioWare what to do, it is their game, and I know their team is busy already. But if they see this, maybe my ideas will help and hopefully someday we will have a better balance for creating groups.

We need more tanks/healers and we need more flexibility for creating groups.

 

-

Sincerely from a loyal SWTORian since closed BETA (September 2011) <3

 

One of the best assessments of the game I have ever saw. Excellent.

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I see a fair number of things that just make me /facepalm in this thread. The OP right of the top is the first one. Essentially what he has done is observed that it hasn't rained in a long time and drought has occurred. Then he turns and looks at the different kinds of soil around him and states there are not enough variations in the soil that is causing the drought.

 

This reminds me of a lesson one indie game developer learned and presented to the game development community at one of their annual conventions, "Listen to your players to help identify where the problems are, however be prepared to disregard most of their suggestions on how to fix it. Your players are fantastic to find problems, but more of then not, are terrible at solving them."

 

If there is a drought of tanks and healers in the queue, it isn't due to the nature of the classes. It is due to the fact that the number of people who want and are willing to fill those roles are missing. Healer and tanks have all packed their bags and left for guilds and/or other content. That is what that means.

 

**********

 

Now, here are some of my own thoughts on this. First off, I play a Corruption Sorceress on Star Forge. I am, somewhat, new to this game. I have been playing, by and large solo, off and on, since February of this year. I have played through the entire story available up to this point. Over the last two weeks, I have run something close to 100 master mode dungeons. I have been doing so because I find I can make an average of about 400k credits an hour doing so, which is the fastest thing I have found so far. I also like healing.

 

I have had my experiences in those runs cover a fairly wide spread. I got into a Foundry run just yesterday (the 6th of December, 2019) and got booted by the others right at the first trash pull. Not a word was said to me. Not even a hello when we zoned in. I said hello. They were all from the same guild.

 

I also had a run, today as of this posting in fact, where I got into a Czerka Core computer thingy run. The two DPS and myself were 306. Tank was 277. On 2nd boss the tank kept LOSing me and ended up dying. We also lost a DPS due to same issues. Ultimately, I died from adds spawning and using me as a chew toy. Tank got snarky and blamed me. I responded by pointing out 3 things:

1) He was undergeared for the content at 277.

2) He kept LOSing my heals.

3) DPS kept pulling agro off of him because he didn't have the gear to hold it.

He simply said, "Ok" and then bailed.

 

Thankfully, one of the other DPS had a tank spec and swapped. I pulled out my one and only level 50 comp and set her to DPS. We then cleared the rest of the dungeon with no more problems including killing the boss we had just wiped on.

 

On the flip side, I have had some really nice runs. Yesterday (7th of December, 2019) I got into the one with the computer boss Zildrog at the end. Had two DPS who hadn't done it before. Tank had done it and so had I. Everyone was 306. As run went I explained each fight as best I could. Result was we one shot every boss up until Zildrog. That one took us 3 pulls. At the end however, everyone gave me high praise for my explanations and for my healing. It felt nice.

 

I find every now and again I get compliments on my heals and that makes me feel good. Makes me want to keep queueing up. Rarely do I get blamed if things go wrong. Sometimes though, it is my fault. I try to figure out what I did wrong and fix it for the next pull if I am given a chance. Sometimes it isn't my fault and no amount of skill on my part or any other healer will fix it. You can't heal faster than what the GCD allows after all.

 

Good example of that was this morning in Blood Hunt. Tank was really squishy. She was as squishy as any of the DPS. Took us a good 5 or so pulls to clear the 2nd boss. Then when we got to Torch, tank ended up dying twice. I ressed her the first time, but she still kept taking such spiky damage. In the end, after 2nd time tank died, I just kep going healing the DPS. Eventually the weaker DPS got caught up her big flame storm and died as well. From then on it was just me and the main DPS. I was able to keep the two of us alive with no problems as we burned the last 40% of Torch down. As a result we didn't wipe. Oddly enough, my only clear of Operation Meridian on master mode went same way. Just me and the primary DPS vs the last boss. (Operation Meridian is WAY overtuned imo. Specially for the healing requirements.)

 

So here is my advice to those who want to see more tanks/healers in the queue:

1) Be nice

2) Say hello

3) If they do well enough, in your estimation, say thank you and compliment their job done

4) If you are new, speak up and ask for advice

5) If the others are new, speak up and offer advice, even more so if you have done that dungeon in a tank or healer role

6) Give people chances to learn, even more so if they are clearly trying. Yes it is slower, but it will do much to help keep them around to improve your queues.

7) If you are undergeared/leveled then do what you can to help mitigate your disadvantage and the weakness you represent to the group. Don't blame others if things just don't work out.

 

Over the last two weeks I have also learned a few things that I now do when the queue pops. If I see certain things, odds are I will decline the queue or leave soon as group is formed because experience has taught me trouble is far too likely to be coming:

1) Are all players 75? No? Decline.

2) All players are 75, what dungeon did we get? Easy or Hard?

3) Easy dungeon proceed and clear dungeon like normal. (I did have to bail a Red Reaper run. Tank and both DPS were sub 280. Tank couldn't peal agro off me once I started healing. I had to heal cause he was melting like butter in a furnace at 1000c. DPS were not killing adds even close to fast enough to help agro off me either. I would then die, then the rest would die. I tried to teach the tank to LOS pull, but he just kept charging in. He wouldn't listen, wouldn't communicate, wouldn't learn, and was in same guild as one of the DPS. Fearing a run that had potential to turn toxic, I decided to cut my losses and leave.)

4) Hard dungeon, is everyone 300+? No?

5) Not everyone is 300+, is the lowbie the tank? Leave.

6) Not everyone is 300+, is the lowbie a DPS? Are the others 306? Yes, give it a shot.

7) Hard dungeon, is everyone 300+? Yes? Do the dungeon.

8) Is the dungeon very hard? Yes? (Operation Meridian, A Traitor Among the Chiss, etc.) Is everyone 306? No? Leave.

9) Is the dungeon very hard? Yes? Is everyone 306? Yes? Check accomplishments, try to engage party in communication and develop plan for success.

10) Do people cooperate? No? Leave.

11) Do people cooperate? Yes? Do our best and cheer if we succeed. See Zildrog story above.

 

In general I don't like to leave groups, but I am also not here to carry people trying to level up in master mode dungeons. Go do the story for Onslaught. If you space bar and sprint all the purple objectives, skip all side quests, you can hit 75 in about 30-45 minutes. You also get fed a near full set of 270 gear. Occasionally though, I do stick about and see if we got an easy dungeon like Hammer Station or Ilum.

 

I also don't like to leave simply cause someone is undergeared, however, healer is the most forgiving to being undergeared if the DPS and Tank do their own jobs right. Tank is the most punishing as their entire point of existence is to soak damage. But, if it is a hard dungeon, my patience threshold for performance will be lower. All the skill in the world can't overcome a gear check after all.

 

That is just my thoughts after the last two weeks pushing out close to 100 master mode dungeons.

Edited by Maddhawk
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If there is a drought of tanks and healers in the queue, it isn't due to the nature of the classes. It is due to the fact that the number of people who want and are willing to fill those roles are missing. Healer and tanks have all packed their bags and left for guilds and/or other content. That is what that means.

 

(Operation Meridian is WAY overtuned imo. Specially for the healing requirements.)

 

I agree to most of this. I wouldn´t play tank if there were more tank classes. More people play dps because it´s more fun to kill things.

 

I too enjoy healing - especially the force healer. Dps now seems boring to me.

 

I don´t agree that Meridian is overtuned though. With a good group it´s not very hard. As sorc healer you even have an advantage at the bonus boss (shielding the tank or whoever has boss aggro from the stacks - your god bubble cleanses them :)

Edited by Ahwassa
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8 classes, each with 2 specializations. That is 16 types of characters and all but 2 have either a tank or healers spec they can choose anytime they want to. In otherwords, 14 out of 16 characters can heal or tank if they choose to (anytime). I don't see how giving the other 2 characters a tank/heal spec will have a large impact. 88% of character classes can already either heal or tank if they want to.

 

So, any issue with a shortage of tanks or healers isn't due to character options. BW can't force people to choose to heal or tank. And, they have given 88% of the players the ability to either heal or tank already.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I have a tank character to just play with. I rarely actually use him to tank for a group. Mostly because it is harder than just following and doing a damage rotation. And, I have never healed in SWTOR even though I have 9 lvl75 characters now. I would have to learn the keybinds and my character (as a healer) better....and I don't want to do it. Again, because it is more work than just following and doing a dps rotation (and less use in solo pve).

 

I used to be a primary healer for a guild in WOW, but that was only because I was playing a paladin (basically just a big heal, a little heal, and a cleanse) and I had macros (which aren't available in SWTOR). All there was to it was to click one of the three buttons next to each person's icon/health bar....i.e. there was 3 little buttons by everyone's picture and I just clicked if I wanted to give them a big heal, little heal, or cleanse them. That is much easier and simpler than a dps rotation. So, it was relaxing and fun to be a healer under those conditions. There was no switching targets, key bindings, etc. like SWTOR. So, I will probably never want to learn how to be a healer here.

 

I suspect the issues aren't that people don't have choice. It is just that it is easier and simpler in SWTOR to dps. And, it is definitely more useful and fun solo to be dps. I also suspect, as some have pointed out, that a lot of people that do like to heal/tank just don't like doing so for PUGs. Probably for lots of reasons (disrespectful people, impatient people, stupid people, etc. )

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8 classes, each with 2 specializations. That is 16 types of characters and all but 2 have either a tank or healers spec they can choose anytime they want to. In otherwords, 14 out of 16 characters can heal or tank if they choose to (anytime). I don't see how giving the other 2 characters a tank/heal spec will have a large impact. 88% of character classes can already either heal or tank if they want to.

 

So, any issue with a shortage of tanks or healers isn't due to character options. BW can't force people to choose to heal or tank. And, they have given 88% of the players the ability to either heal or tank already.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I have a tank character to just play with. I rarely actually use him to tank for a group. Mostly because it is harder than just following and doing a damage rotation. And, I have never healed in SWTOR even though I have 9 lvl75 characters now. I would have to learn the keybinds and my character (as a healer) better....and I don't want to do it. Again, because it is more work than just following and doing a dps rotation (and less use in solo pve).

 

I used to be a primary healer for a guild in WOW, but that was only because I was playing a paladin (basically just a big heal, a little heal, and a cleanse) and I had macros (which aren't available in SWTOR). All there was to it was to click one of the three buttons next to each person's icon/health bar....i.e. there was 3 little buttons by everyone's picture and I just clicked if I wanted to give them a big heal, little heal, or cleanse them. That is much easier and simpler than a dps rotation. So, it was relaxing and fun to be a healer under those conditions. There was no switching targets, key bindings, etc. like SWTOR. So, I will probably never want to learn how to be a healer here.

 

I suspect the issues aren't that people don't have choice. It is just that it is easier and simpler in SWTOR to dps. And, it is definitely more useful and fun solo to be dps. I also suspect, as some have pointed out, that a lot of people that do like to heal/tank just don't like doing so for PUGs. Probably for lots of reasons (disrespectful people, impatient people, stupid people, etc. )

 

I could have mained a healer, if I could solo with it. But it is just much more effective to re-spec to DPS when doing your daily solo grind. And then you end up only playing healer in group content. Not really maining it, is it? :D

 

So for healers I just have some alts which I log only when i want to heal or somebody asks me to. You just can't do "all content" effectively as a healer. I wish healers had better damage dealing capabilities...

 

Tank + DPS companion works really well though, and sometimes I feel like I am clearing dailies/heroic even faster than with my DPS. So maining a tank seems totally possible. People just choose not to.

Edited by Equeliber
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I don't have the solution - but for sure the core designs of this game are NOT the way to go.

 

Smaller group sizes so less dps matched per group for each healer and tank.

 

Lots of role specific stats such as accuracy (useless for healers, required for dps) and most tank stats (highly devalued or useless for healing / dps, required for tanks).

 

Highly specific set bonuses, tacticals and amplifiers where a set for one spec is marginally useful to useless for another.

 

No multiple spec option - as in a way to save and swap between full spec set ups including talents, ability selections, and bar / binding sets.

 

Lots of solo / solo-ish content with little to no need for a tank or healer and / or taking longer to complete with a tank or healer.

 

No add-ons or built in frame / mouse over macro options for healing (hard swapping targets is clunky, frames and frame options in game suck).

 

Lots of instances full of annoying trash that make tanking joyless (spending a large portion of the run without control of your character is stupid).

 

And all this before considering the issues that exist in all games with tank / healer / dps set ups - such as heals and tanks subject to more abuse by pugs, less interesting / exciting / fun than dps, higher risk to group with failure.

Edited by DawnAskham
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