Fully anyway..we know destroying the Sith was part of the prophecy but what about the balance? Before you jump on me and say "he killed sidious and sacrificed himself of course he did". We know Lucas changes his vision alot, and i'm sure originally that was what he intended to be the fulfillment of the Prophecy of the Chosen One..but what if he had planned to delve deeper in the lore but never got around to it? The whole Mortis arc in TCW makes me think Anakin didn't complete the prophecy 100%. I'm sure it hasn't been explained fully yet or will at all. It was hinted by the Father that Anakin's destiny was to replace him, but we all know he didn't. So was the Prophecy intended for Anakin to become the new "Father" so to speak to actually keep the balance between Dark and Light? Had he become one of the Ones he would've been a deity tier in power. We know he destroyed the sith but obviously the balance was never restored.

So did he actually fulfill it or did he die without completing it?

Fully anyway..we know destroying the Sith was part of the prophecy but what about the balance? Before you jump on me and say "he killed sidious and sacrificed himself of course he did". We know Lucas changes his vision alot, and i'm sure originally that was what he intended to be the fulfillment of the Prophecy of the Chosen One..but what if he had planned to delve deeper in the lore but never got around to it? The whole Mortis arc in TCW makes me think Anakin didn't complete the prophecy 100%. I'm sure it hasn't been explained fully yet or will at all. It was hinted by the Father that Anakin's destiny was to replace him, but we all know he didn't. So was the Prophecy intended for Anakin to become the new "Father" so to speak to actually keep the balance between Dark and Light? Had he become one of the Ones he would've been a deity tier in power. We know he destroyed the sith but obviously the balance was never restored.

 

So did he actually fulfill it or did he die without completing it?

He was meant to replace the father... and you say he didnt... but if you really think about it he did.

He took the Mantle Darth Vader, which translates to "Dark Father" so he takes the mantel of "Father" as the "Dark Father" next he is supposed to reside and rule over The Son, and The Daughter, as the second in command of an Empire he Rules over every one, including HIS Son, and HIS Daughter. So in a way Anakin DID reside over The Son, and The Daughter as The Dark Father, from a certain point of view. Further if some one is meant to bring balance, that doesnt mean they are supposed to do so while Alive. After all Death in star wars, especially for force users, is not neccisarily the end, so the spirit of Anakin and the Memory of Anakin, just like Anakin's children. Could all still play a role in balancing the force. Time will tell.

Edit: I did always consider that the point of the Mortis ark, to parallel and hint at the Father that Anakin would become with his own Son and Daughter.

This Prophecy is all interpretation. You could think that, with Order 66 and turning to the Dark Side, he brought the Force to "balance". There were only 2 Jedi and 2 Sith left (by film canon). So, from one interpretation, yes, he fulfilled it.

At the moment there is no interpretation necessary, and certainly not about numbers of Jedi & Sith, since both are not the only Force Users in canon of Light or Dark. If it was purely down to that, then he would have to have been the single biggest mass murderer the Galaxy had ever known.

It's nothing to do with the number of Force Users, but the Force itself. It was out of balance because of the over powering influence of the Dark Side brought about by the Sith and their "unnatural abilities" i.e. manipulating the Force itself through manipulation of midichlorians.

The current explanation is that he fulfilled the prophecy when he killed Palpatine in RoTJ, which had the effect of returning the Force to balance once the influences of the Sith (Palps) had been eliminated.

At the moment there is no interpretation necessary, and certainly not about numbers of Jedi & Sith, since both are not the only Force Users in canon of Light or Dark. If it was purely down to that, then he would have to have been the single biggest mass murderer the Galaxy had ever known.

It's nothing to do with the number of Force Users, but the Force itself. It was out of balance because of the over powering influence of the Dark Side brought about by the Sith and their "unnatural abilities" i.e. manipulating the Force itself through manipulation of midichlorians.

 

The current explanation is that he fulfilled the prophecy when he killed Palpatine in RoTJ, which had the effect of returning the Force to balance once the influences of the Sith (Palps) had been eliminated.

Hmm okay, I have always seen this wrong, then. Lol

No.

Balance is achieved when to opposing forces are on equal ground, essentially being in a stalemate.

When Anakin sided with Palpatine in RotS the power shifted fully to the Dark Side with no opposition. Then when he kills Palpatine he created a vacuum with there being no influential representation of either side.

Though I suppose it is possible to look at there being no Jedi or Sith as bring balance, sense there would be no one using the force, which would allow things to just exist.

George Lucas confirmed Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, destroyed the sith and brought balance to the force.

Source:

The force at it's pure stage is balanced. The dark side users cause the imbalance. It's not the balance of maintaining equal powers on the light and dark side.

I don't think Disney tend to change that but I don't know how they'll find a workaround about the balance part of the prophecy, since it's clear there are still dark side users that corrupt the force in TFA. Oddly, I have a feeling I don't think Disney will care about the balance part especially considering Hidalgo's "he destroyed the sith after all that's something" response to "the balance" question.

Mind you, entire "balance" thing is interpreted by Jedi. Of course it means full eradication of the sith.

It's interpreted by George Lucas

It's interpreted by George Lucas

Well, he is the creator of jedi order anyway

Hmm okay, I have always seen this wrong, then. Lol

You're not the only one, and that was the earliest interpretation of the prophecy that fans were coming up with, since it made sense at the time of TPM's release in the context of 2 Jedi and 2 Sith during the Original Trilogy.

It doesn't help that the whole thing was part of Lucas' decision when making the Prequels was that Star Wars "was always about Anakin Skywalker", despite that being something he'd never said before, in any way, in the 16 years between RoTJ and TPM.

He's a great visionary directory, but a poor story and script writer.

George Lucas confirmed Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, destroyed the sith and brought balance to the force.

 

Source:

 

The force at it's pure stage is balanced. The dark side users cause the imbalance. It's not the balance of maintaining equal powers on the light and dark side.

 

I don't think Disney tend to change that but I don't know how they'll find a workaround about the balance part of the prophecy, since it's clear there are still dark side users that corrupt the force in TFA. Oddly, I have a feeling I don't think Disney will care about the balance part especially considering Hidalgo's "he destroyed the sith after all that's something" response to "the balance" question.

That was before he introduced us to the Mortis stuff though. Like i said what if he changed his vision again to add another layer of lore to that prophecy? He destroyed the sith but did it really bring balance? true balance?

You're not the only one, and that was the earliest interpretation of the prophecy that fans were coming up with, since it made sense at the time of TPM's release in the context of 2 Jedi and 2 Sith during the Original Trilogy.

 

It doesn't help that the whole thing was part of Lucas' decision when making the Prequels was that Star Wars "was always about Anakin Skywalker", despite that being something he'd never said before, in any way, in the 16 years between RoTJ and TPM.

Just because Lucas never said it before doesn't make it less true though. the Prequals and the OT taken together tell the story of the rise, fall and redemption of the man. the new trilogy we'll have to see how it all plays out but I suspect it will continue to deeply orbit the story of Anakin Skywalker, in this case the question of legacy

That was before he introduced us to the Mortis stuff though. Like i said what if he changed his vision again to add another layer of lore to that prophecy? He destroyed the sith but did it really bring balance? true balance?

You hit the nail on the head here, the Mortis arc really throws a monkey wrench into the old views about balance.

both the "old" and "new" are George Lucas' idea (I'm pretty sure that GL was directly involved with that arc, not just rubber stamping it like most of TCW).

At some point someone is probably going to retcon in something to bring Mortis and ultimate balance together. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

You hit the nail on the head here, the Mortis arc really throws a monkey wrench into the old views about balance.

 

both the "old" and "new" are George Lucas' idea (I'm pretty sure that GL was directly involved with that arc, not just rubber stamping it like most of TCW).

 

At some point someone is probably going to retcon in something to bring Mortis and ultimate balance together. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

I imagine they'll try to reconsile the two ideas by the end of episode 9.

That was before he introduced us to the Mortis stuff though. Like i said what if he changed his vision again to add another layer of lore to that prophecy? He destroyed the sith but did it really bring balance? true balance?

I don't think he has changed his mind on that since he had built the entire saga on that alone. He wasn't the writer or director of both Mortis episodes and that story arc doesn't necessarily contradict what we know because Anakin brought balance to that world by killing the Son and ending his corruption as the Father proclaimed.

Just because Lucas never said it before doesn't make it less true though.

The absolute lack of any Procphecy or reference to how "special" Anakin was as a Jedi before the OT was finished, and when Lucas set about making changes and additions (and continued to do so after the Prequels began) works more to reinforce that Lucas retroactively made it all about Anakin.

Silly political/Trade Federation stuff and bad exposition aside, nothing about balance of the Force or even a Chosen One existed in the early materials as far as I'm aware, and that's all stuff that Lucas' peers all told him to keep out of the movies back when he actually sought out and listened to peer review.

The lack of Gary Kurtz probably also factors in, since he wasn't as big on the special effects as Lucas is, and was more invested in the actual "story telling" side than Lucas is.

You hit the nail on the head here, the Mortis arc really throws a monkey wrench into the old views about balance.

Not really.

Anakin restored balance with the death of the Son, which was only necessary because the Father (the most powerful of all three in Mortis at the time of Obi-Wan, Anakin & Ahsoka's arrival) wasn't strong enough to prevent the Son's actions, which was a direct result of the imbalance in the Force. The Dark Side's influence was so overbearing at this point, the Son's power had grown to rival the Father's.

The cost of restoring balance in Mortis alone left the Father without both the Son and Daughter with the Daughter's death at the hands of the Son as much a representation of the Dark Side overshadowing the Light as Windu's line of informing the Senate about the Jedi's capabilities with the Force being diminshed. The Mortis arc also mirrors the fate of both the Jedi Order and the Sith across the two trilogies - Dark Side overshadowing the Light to the point that the only way to restore the balance was to eliminate that which caused it. In Mortis, the balance within Mortis was disrupted by the actions of the Son as the cause (death of the daughter), and his death was necessary to restore balance.

With the Force itself, the Sith had to be destroyed to restore balance since their actions had caused the imbalance, with the most direct action being the manipulation of midichlorians to gain access to immortality, with the Force responding with Space Jesus Anakin.

The absolute lack of any Procphecy or reference to how "special" Anakin was as a Jedi before the OT was finished, and when Lucas set about making changes and additions (and continued to do so after the Prequels began) works more to reinforce that Lucas retroactively made it all about Anakin.

.

just because you've not heard of it doesn't mean it wasn't there. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Son_of_Suns as seen in that wookiepeida link, the idea of a prophsed savior exists in some of the earlier Star Wars drafts.

Also the prophecy isn't relevent. even if Anakin wasn't a super important guy (which he was, even the OT eistablished that Anakin was clearly a luminary among the jedi) the fact remains that the prequals where ALWAYS going to focus on Anakin, and taken together episodes 1-6 would have ALWAYS been the story of the rise, fall and redemption of Aanakin Skywalker.

He was meant to replace the father... and you say he didnt... but if you really think about it he did.

 

He took the Mantle Darth Vader, which translates to "Dark Father" so he takes the mantel of "Father" as the "Dark Father" next he is supposed to reside and rule over The Son, and The Daughter, as the second in command of an Empire he Rules over every one, including HIS Son, and HIS Daughter. So in a way Anakin DID reside over The Son, and The Daughter as The Dark Father, from a certain point of view. Further if some one is meant to bring balance, that doesnt mean they are supposed to do so while Alive. After all Death in star wars, especially for force users, is not neccisarily the end, so the spirit of Anakin and the Memory of Anakin, just like Anakin's children. Could all still play a role in balancing the force. Time will tell.

 

Edit: I did always consider that the point of the Mortis ark, to parallel and hint at the Father that Anakin would become with his own Son and Daughter.

Afaik Vader comes from in-vader, not from father (like Sidious from in-sidious).

And Balance in the Force means destroying the dark side, since Jedi believe the Force is only the Light Side, the Dark Side was created somehow later by corruption. (Note that there is no evidence in support of or against it)

Afaik Vader comes from in-vader, not from father (like Sidious from in-sidious).

And Balance in the Force means destroying the dark side, since Jedi believe the Force is only the Light Side, the Dark Side was created somehow later by corruption. (Note that there is no evidence in support of or against it)

The confusion on balance is because we hear balance and we think two equal but oppisite sides (like and yin and the yang) but in this case when they say balance, according to Lucas it was a slightly differant meaning, namely "Harmony"

even the OT eistablished that Anakin was clearly a luminary among the jedi)

No they didn't, not even in the slightest.

Obi-Wan called him the best starpilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior and a good friend after telling Luke that he (Anakin) had been a Jedi Knight.

The next we get about Anakin (even the first time his name is mentioned too) was in RoTJ, where Obi-Wan says he was strong in the Force ("amazed at how strongly the Force was with him") and that he trained Anakin to be a Jedi.

(I'm treating Vader & Anakin as 2 separate characters, for the purpose directly Anakin related things only)

Nothing in any of those films (or ESB) places any special significance upon Anakin beyond having been a Jedi, and Luke's (and Leia's) father, and certainly not anything special amongst the Jedi Order itself, for the simple reason that there was no significance to him beyond what we see in those movies at the time.

He only became more significant to the movies because of the prequels, because of midichlorians and a prophecy.

the fact remains that the prequals where ALWAYS going to focus on Anakin, and taken together episodes 1-6 would have ALWAYS been the story of the rise, fall and redemption of Aanakin Skywalker.

Except for when they didn't focus on him, or focus on anything approaching a protagonist.

I'm not disputing that now 1-6 shows the rise, fall (badly done), and redemption of Anakin, I was only saying that Lucas decided to make the whole thing about that retroactively.

As for the whole "Son of Suns" prophecy (pre TCW) that was part of rough drafts and ideas before things coalesced into intitially "The Adventures of Luke Starkiller", and then "The Star Wars" and in both of those early drafts there was no prophecy or Journal of The Whills, because even Lucas had thrown them out along with midichlorians, because people he showed his ideas to were telling him those things were bad. For a movie.

At that early stage, the Jedi were the Jedi-Bendu, the most feared warriors in the galaxy, (and also acted as bodyguards for The Emperor and created the Imperial military for the Empire) and had been for a hundred thousand years, who were hunted down for the New Empire by the Knights of Sith (not the Sith, just Sith), and Annikin (yup, spelt that way too) had a father who was a Jedi-Bendu and a little brother, and no prophecy about him being The Chosen One, because at this point Annikin was Luke and it was all set in what would become the first film made Star Wars (retitled to Episode IV: A New Hope for its first re-release into cinemas).

Ultimately the prequels were just a way for Lucas to use a lot of his bad ideas in film, (trade negotiations too) along with showing how Anakin became Vader.

In ROTJ, Yoda claimed Anakin was a strong Jedi twice in the same sentence and put an emphasis on the word "strong" each time. So, there's that.

It was actually ESB.

"Ah father, powerful Jedi was he. Hehe..mm...powerful Jedi."- Yoda

It was actually ESB.

 

"Ah father, powerful Jedi was he. Hehe..mm...powerful Jedi."- Yoda

Ah yes, you're absolutely right. It's been a long time since I watched the OT.