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Do Slingers fit into the military roleplaying community? my research

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Do Slingers fit into the military roleplaying community? my research

Jaetix_Jag's Avatar


Jaetix_Jag
01.05.2016 , 09:28 PM | #1
This article is specifically about my research and findings for Star Wars The Old Republic in particular the military for the republic side only for mainly gunslingers as well as it clears up the armor coloring for the Republic army armor at least. Please note that what you read here is what I have researched and found, I am not saying that I am always right or wrong and if you would like to argue something I have said in this article please do so in a respectful manner as what I say is certainly subject to debate as this is going to posted to the forums upon my completion of writing this. This is for my knowledge as well as those who want to learn or are interested in reading this, this is informative. I will post my findings in this but if you would like to contribute to expanding the knowledge of others as well as mine or yours please feel free to do so, I would like to see a link though, this article will be strictly through Wookiepedia at this time.

Also on a side note this is allot of what I struggled kind of wondering if my struggler fitted into the military role-playing community so allot of it you can sort of skip through, however I do think there is a good bit of stuff you can still learn here from reading the various links posted and seeing sort of what I'm seeing through my eyes.

I will start this by saying that I play a Gun Slinger on the server "The Ebon Hawk" my characters name is Jaetix, I have wondered for some time if my slinger would properly fit into the world of military role-play and these are what I've found.

From what I was able to gather to start is that from the looks of Slinger in my own opinions bares some characteristics as well as a resemblance to the Republic Starfighters Corps. The basic evidence to start this is for TOR within the game, There is a Republic vendors on fleet that sell armor for adaptive armor in the supplies section on fleet where mods up to a certain level which I believe is 56 can be bought as well, the vendor as stated is in the supplies port of the fleet across from where it says supplies on the top right of that area, that vendors name is 'Darthyn' under his name when you click him says "<Level 8 Equipment vendor>", Going back to what I was saying he sells a specific set called "Trainee Armor" At the very bottom of the list, the armor is purchasable for all classes, the weapons are only purchasable by certain classes, The "Trainee set" including the following weapon types; Assault Cannon and blaster pistol. The set itself as said before bares in my opinion a strong resemblance to the Republic Starfighters Corps or the equivalent of the Air Force in the real world. Link below

As well a link to Tor fashion where you can view the set in its entirety itself.
Link to Wookiepedia where it discusses the various military branches that are high lighted in blue and can be clicked to read up on more specific details.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Military

Tor Fashion Trainee armor set link
http://tor-fashion.com/trainee-pub/

Trainee weapon for smuggler- Blaster Pistol as well as being only purchasable by smuggler/Bounty Hunter.

http://tor-fashion.com/trainees-blaster-pistol/

Trainee Blaster Rifle- Only purchasable by Agent/Trooper class.

http://tor-fashion.com/trainees-blaster-rifle/

As well as Trainee Assault Cannon-only purchasable by Troopers

http://tor-fashion.com/trainees-assault-cannon/

When looking at the Trainee armor set more closely as Tor Fashion did not do a good job of displaying the Emblems on each sleeve, The left being the Republic logo and the right being the "Havoc squad logo"

To sum this up before you go that webpage for those who have no idea what I'm talking about when I use the term "Havoc Squad" , This is the little description given by the site I've given you all of these previous links for information from but here's their small paragraph description.

" The Havoc Squad, also known as Havoc Squadron, was an eliteRepublic Special Forces squad of troopers in the army of the Galactic Republic, who fought against the Sith Empire during the Great Galactic War. Originally known as infantry squad 326, Havoc Squad soon gained its name under the leadership of its commander Jace Malcom, and it was later led by Malcom's executive officer Jek Kardan, Kardan's protegeHarron Tavus, and Meteor. Havoc Squad saw action on many fronts throughout the war, from Ord Mantell to the Battle of Alderaan, and even after the Treaty of Coruscant was signed, the commandos of Havoc Squad continued to combat Sith threats during the resulting Cold War"

They were in the Republic Army, why their logo is on the Trainee set , thoughts of my own would be someone from "Havoc Squad" cross trained(My own opinion again) but it looks like the Republic Starfighters Corps was being cross trained with the Army, that's the only reason I can think of why their emblem would be on that jacket

Link below for Havoc squad on Wookiepedia.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Havoc_Squad

Going into slightly more detail the "Trainee" set looks quite similar to the "Republic Squadron Commander Pilot" set
Link below

http://tor-fashion.com/republic-squa...mmander-pilot/

Now the odd thing is that on the "Republic Squadron Commander Pilot" set both emblems on the sleeves are missing, neither the "Havoc Squad" logo or the Republic logo appear anywhere I can see on the suit. Which I find rather odd. This set does not have a any weapons that I know went with the set. Which on the "Trainee" set the blaster pistols were for Smuggler and Bounty Hunter only. While the rest of the armor was purchasable by any class as well as the rest of the adaptive armor being sold by that same vendor, only weapons being class specific to purchase.

To make this more precise to smugglers in particular ever so slightly, that set is yellow. Both are actually. Except on smugglers and Bounty Hunters can buy them. Just sticks out to me. I don't have any concrete evidence as to what the trooper would wear except for from the cinematic where havoc squad wore Red specifically, however when looking at another set called the "Remnant Resurrected Trooper which is also red .

Link below
http://tor-fashion.com/remnant-resurrected-trooper/

Is this the standard of what the Trooper armor should look like? I Don't know. There very well could be more then 1 variant of what trooper armor looked like during the old republic.

So in conclusion to that it doesn't look like "Havoc Squad" got some special color for being the Elite Army guys they were. Just a emblem to call their own branded on in my opinion, way too many pieces of heavy armor -_- . Back on topic though the link to that cinematic on youtube below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNvCOUy1Ts

All branches of the military still exist in SWTOR
Republic Army, link below

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Army

Republic Navy, link below

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Navy/Legends

And the Republic Starfighter Corps, link below

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Repub...rfighter_Corps

And the page that will give you the link to both within the first paragraph I believe, both highlighted in blue and you can click them to read more, The "Date founded" BBY dates I'm typing right now are in a gray rectangular box on the top right hand side of the page.

The Republic Starfighters Corps which I will now discuss

To quote that first paragraph word for word.
"The Republic Starfighter Corps[1] was the aerial warfare branch of theRepublic Military. Alongside the Republic Navy and the Republic Army, it served the Galactic Republic for nearly fifteen thousand years until after the New Sith Wars,"

The New sith wars ended in 1000 BBY putting the date founded right about at 16,000 BBY so in SWTOR the Republic Starfighters Corps does still exist. The page for the "New Sith Wars" link down below

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Sith_Wars

Information in gray rectangular box at the top right hand side as well.
Now this article is mostly done, As I said before I don't know if the Republic Navy had a specific color for their armor if someone wanted to make a guild specifically about the navy. However I did want to post actual ranks for each division of the military as the trooper class does earn these various titles which could very well be used in roleplay but I don't know if people really care to read through all that so I will simply post the reference to the page where you can see the ranks for the various branches that would correlate closest to if you wanted to have a specific branch of the military as a role-play guild as I have seen this on occasion from time to time.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ranks/

In conclusion to what I started on my conquest to find out, yes smugglers, and my Gun Slinger particularly, have every right to do military role-play and wear their armor.

I would suggest if you want to role-play military which most people are going to choose a branch that you go to the links posted. I hope this helped clear up some things, I know it did for me and I enjoyed researching this.
I don't think I need to write the sources but incase it is needed it is Wookiepedia. Shout out to them for having all the stuff needed to find out what I came here to find out.

Remember that we are in 3635 BBY because of the fact that I do believe KOTFE is a time lapse expansion when you exit in and out of it.
And again one last time Army is red armor or if you need dyes it would be "White and red" would be what you search on GTN for.
Navy is unknown what colors and Galactic Spacefighters Corps is yellow and white.
And one last time thanks for the read.

Mourkoth's Avatar


Mourkoth
01.06.2016 , 03:13 AM | #2
Alright, so this is all a bit....convoluted, to say the least. A lot of what you're trying to convey is ultimately lost.

Start from the beginning, and I mean the very beginning. What's the problem, the cause of the problem, and your solution?

Answer those three in three sentences or less, each.

Through this, I could probably go a pretty good distance to helping you out, since I happen to have two smuggler characters that are roleplayed as an integrated part of the Republic military.

Jaetix_Jag's Avatar


Jaetix_Jag
01.06.2016 , 01:27 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Mourkoth View Post
Alright, so this is all a bit....convoluted, to say the least. A lot of what you're trying to convey is ultimately lost.

Start from the beginning, and I mean the very beginning. What's the problem, the cause of the problem, and your solution?

Answer those three in three sentences or less, each.

Please read through the entire response as it will help you understand, I understand its lengthy but it will help you understand where I'm coming from and why it is so lengthy and "Convoluted" as you say.

Through this, I could probably go a pretty good distance to helping you out, since I happen to have two smuggler characters that are roleplayed as an integrated part of the Republic military.
Let me first start by saying thank you for taking the time to read through this and reply as "convoluted" as you say it was, it was that way to me as well having to sort through tons of information looking at various pieces of armor comparing them, there isn't even a "Date founded" for what would be the Republic Air Force. What originally set this off was when a guy I was role-playing with misinterpreted what another guy was role-playing with us an OOC asked them in local chat if they had just essentially aimed a I'm not sure if this is the right term but a prejudice comment about me, Which they claimed they had not. That's what started all of this, and then I thought to myself "Do I have the right to roleplay military on my slinger" that set me on the conquest to find this all out in what my eyes is my article that I typed but I will say that as "Convoluted" as it appears to you as the reader, that was for me as well when I was researching all of this

I tried to do the best I could do to get the point across showing various armor pieces and what they correlated in my opinion very much alike in ways but I wanted to stray from Canon lore and go through the actual research, the X wings I believe they're called in one of the movies, if you were to look more closely at the armor, it bares a strong resemblance. That's my opinion though which I will say now that I am not stating as fact.

As I type this out I am thinking "Doesn't it say at the bottom what my conclusion was" so I'm not really sure there is a need to sum this up in 3 sentences. That research and what I'm showing to me is worth a lot more time clicking and reading then on the 3 sentences, I started this wanting to find out if I belonged and fitted properly into the military role-playing community, and I did just that in what my eyes shows the strong resemblances and as the common saying goes "A picture is worth a thousand words" There's multiple pictures and there's definitely a thousand words if not more. So to sum that up in 3 sentences would crush all the research I put into finding this all out, That's why I provided links for people to go and read as well as quoting wookiepedia in some areas.

So I understand that you could help me better I guess make this easier to understand, and if you'd like to contribute I more then welcome that and I only request that you do it this way.

please show respect to the article I've written and don't disembowel my work that took me well over 3 hours to type. I showed slingers more than enough evidence to provide to anyone that steps to them and says "You cant do military role-play your a slinger" or some other crude remark that is false, that there is evidence that supports the right we have to role-play in the military community, But I still want people to go and research, these are basics, they lay down the foundation of if you belong, which from a lot of what I shown, says yes. But I'm still researching this stuff myself.

The foundation for slingers to say they have the right to do military role-play the evidence is in front of their very eyes. What you want to role-play as a slinger you're going to have to do research to figure out what it is you want to role-play.

So I hope typing this out that you took the time to read this all cause it takes me quite a bit of time to type out these responses.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.06.2016 , 06:24 PM | #4
I think I understand. This belongs in the Story and Lore forum I think, since this forum is for general star wars discussion ... i.e. discussions about topics related to star wars but not necessarily SWTOR.

As I understand your reply, someone challenged the legitimacy of your roleplaying, because your advanced class is gunslinger but you have armor pieces in your outfit that look like official republic military. Your response is that, based on your research, there were members of the republic military, the part that were starfighter pilots, who shared many attributes with the gunslinger AC in terms of ground combat, but wore more official "regalia" than what the Smuggler-specific armor drops that are in game would depict. Is that basically correct?

I'm glad you found some Legends (since nothing prior to April 2014 is canon per Disney) material supporting your roleplay choice. Hopefully this helps other people who might get criticized for wearing something that does not match their advanced class.

Mourkoth's Avatar


Mourkoth
01.06.2016 , 07:12 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I think I understand. This belongs in the Story and Lore forum I think, since this forum is for general star wars discussion ... i.e. discussions about topics related to star wars but not necessarily SWTOR.

As I understand your reply, someone challenged the legitimacy of your roleplaying, because your advanced class is gunslinger but you have armor pieces in your outfit that look like official republic military. Your response is that, based on your research, there were members of the republic military, the part that were starfighter pilots, who shared many attributes with the gunslinger AC in terms of ground combat, but wore more official "regalia" than what the Smuggler-specific armor drops that are in game would depict. Is that basically correct?

I'm glad you found some Legends (since nothing prior to April 2014 is canon per Disney) material supporting your roleplay choice. Hopefully this helps other people who might get criticized for wearing something that does not match their advanced class.
Okay, so the issue is someone saying that gunslingers aren't really something that can be used in Republic military roleplay?

Clearly someone hasn't heard of ARC Troopers, or just troopers in general (officers in particular). If anything, gunslingers and scoundrels are probably more qualified given their ability to use cover and employ technology that would make combat maneuvers far easier.

...which is why having them in the republic would be both logical and fan-freakin'-tastic. Sure, their weaponry is a bit out there, but they can wear the armor and perform feats that I'd normally expect from nothing short of a Republic Commando. So whoever told you that gunslingers aren't fit in the Republic military, you go ahead and tell them right back that they can shove it.

As for OP's explanation, I hate to say it, but something about it really puts my reading comprehension skills to the test. What I've asked for is a summary, to get an idea of what's going on. Treat it like you would an emergency, by giving me a brief few sentences of what happened, so that I know how all of this information applies. I'm not asking for paragraphs of excuses, just a simple, easy to facilitate answer of only a few sentences.

Jaetix_Jag's Avatar


Jaetix_Jag
01.06.2016 , 10:27 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Mourkoth View Post
Okay, so the issue is someone saying that gunslingers aren't really something that can be used in Republic military roleplay?

Clearly someone hasn't heard of ARC Troopers, or just troopers in general (officers in particular). If anything, gunslingers and scoundrels are probably more qualified given their ability to use cover and employ technology that would make combat maneuvers far easier.

...which is why having them in the republic would be both logical and fan-freakin'-tastic. Sure, their weaponry is a bit out there, but they can wear the armor and perform feats that I'd normally expect from nothing short of a Republic Commando. So whoever told you that gunslingers aren't fit in the Republic military, you go ahead and tell them right back that they can shove it.

As for OP's explanation, I hate to say it, but something about it really puts my reading comprehension skills to the test. What I've asked for is a summary, to get an idea of what's going on. Treat it like you would an emergency, by giving me a brief few sentences of what happened, so that I know how all of this information applies. I'm not asking for paragraphs of excuses, just a simple, easy to facilitate answer of only a few sentences.
To respond to both of you at once the answer I can see that conveys the message across yes.

my 3 sentence explanation ill try to put this to the test.

I had a situation that made me not feel comfortable with the knowledge I had already known. I did my research to prove to myself as well as others as well as inform the general public. And I posted my findings and the conclusion I came to.

I think that's what you were asking for but if not I'll try again.

Jaetix_Jag's Avatar


Jaetix_Jag
01.06.2016 , 10:37 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I think I understand. This belongs in the Story and Lore forum I think, since this forum is for general star wars discussion ... i.e. discussions about topics related to star wars but not necessarily SWTOR.

As I understand your reply, someone challenged the legitimacy of your roleplaying, because your advanced class is gunslinger but you have armor pieces in your outfit that look like official republic military. Your response is that, based on your research, there were members of the republic military, the part that were starfighter pilots, who shared many attributes with the gunslinger AC in terms of ground combat, but wore more official "regalia" than what the Smuggler-specific armor drops that are in game would depict. Is that basically correct?

I'm glad you found some Legends (since nothing prior to April 2014 is canon per Disney) material supporting your roleplay choice. Hopefully this helps other people who might get criticized for wearing something that does not match their advanced class.
To give a better response to you, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. And that is what I was doing, but to make it so way people could understand that not only was I struggling to find a way but to me its more like, go through the links click them, look. The evidence is there and all people have to do is look. I mean its like a page and a half essay.

But you put what I was trying to convey in a more understandable message. Ty for doing that.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
01.06.2016 , 10:56 PM | #8
Honestly that can really annoy me about the RP Community. This is a Science FANTASY Genre with characters from all walks of life, you could have just about any one in the military. Heck if you have played through all of the story lines even Jedi characters can be military. They just end up being "former Jedi" or "jedi generals" or the like, a Slinger could be played as anything from a hot shot pilot who joins is skilled enough to join in on ground missions, to a Spec Ops or Special forces member, not "heavy weapons" sure but if you wanted heavy weapons you would obviously be playing a class that USES heavy weapons, but honestly if any one is going to say you CANT do something and you even give the slightest hint as to having given thought into your character, unless THEY want to go through the work of proving you wrong, they really should let it go.

If you were a slinger, and wanting to do military, and you gave a good background as to why your character joined the military, what they want to do in it, and why they use the tactics they use... then no one should really argue it. Hell just another thought out of no where, your character could be former militia so often had to do with low supplies and nothing but side arms so he became comfortable with those weapons and not so comfortable with heavy weapons and moving in heavy armor.

Spoiler

Mourkoth's Avatar


Mourkoth
01.07.2016 , 01:48 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Honestly that can really annoy me about the RP Community. This is a Science FANTASY Genre with characters from all walks of life, you could have just about any one in the military. Heck if you have played through all of the story lines even Jedi characters can be military. They just end up being "former Jedi" or "jedi generals" or the like, a Slinger could be played as anything from a hot shot pilot who joins is skilled enough to join in on ground missions, to a Spec Ops or Special forces member, not "heavy weapons" sure but if you wanted heavy weapons you would obviously be playing a class that USES heavy weapons, but honestly if any one is going to say you CANT do something and you even give the slightest hint as to having given thought into your character, unless THEY want to go through the work of proving you wrong, they really should let it go.

If you were a slinger, and wanting to do military, and you gave a good background as to why your character joined the military, what they want to do in it, and why they use the tactics they use... then no one should really argue it. Hell just another thought out of no where, your character could be former militia so often had to do with low supplies and nothing but side arms so he became comfortable with those weapons and not so comfortable with heavy weapons and moving in heavy armor.

Spoiler
Pistols (gunslingers and Scoundrels) aren't even all that outlandish. There are Republic trooper NPC's that run into combat with freakin' swords of all things.

Jaetix_Jag's Avatar


Jaetix_Jag
01.07.2016 , 03:12 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Honestly that can really annoy me about the RP Community. This is a Science FANTASY Genre with characters from all walks of life, you could have just about any one in the military. Heck if you have played through all of the story lines even Jedi characters can be military. They just end up being "former Jedi" or "jedi generals" or the like, a Slinger could be played as anything from a hot shot pilot who joins is skilled enough to join in on ground missions, to a Spec Ops or Special forces member, not "heavy weapons" sure but if you wanted heavy weapons you would obviously be playing a class that USES heavy weapons, but honestly if any one is going to say you CANT do something and you even give the slightest hint as to having given thought into your character, unless THEY want to go through the work of proving you wrong, they really should let it go.

If you were a slinger, and wanting to do military, and you gave a good background as to why your character joined the military, what they want to do in it, and why they use the tactics they use... then no one should really argue it. Hell just another thought out of no where, your character could be former militia so often had to do with low supplies and nothing but side arms so he became comfortable with those weapons and not so comfortable with heavy weapons and moving in heavy armor.

Spoiler
Ya i already have most of my back story in my head but I don't have anywhere to put even if I did type it out, also you learn about people in character unless your trying to be a roleplay legend or a celebrity, then i guess you could go about different ways of gaining popularity on the server start roleplaying and then post your story to the forums and if that hit fleet word could spread fast like wild fire but thats a different thing. Would be fun to be a celebrity in the roleplay world but who knows.

And I remember seeing that spoiler somewhere on a planet when I was doing the guardian story line cause my slinger is a boosted toon.

But I do agree with everything you just said,the only thing that truly grinds my gears in the military roleplaying community is when people completely just act like the military life doesnt exist but their going to roleplay a commander anyways. And the other is the military guilds alot of them refuse to roleplay with 1 another because they don't see eye to eye.