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An answer from the developers.


tekhiun

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1 - Why haven't the issues with bubble stun and rage/focus specs been corrected yet ? A temporally quick fix would have sufficed, like reverting back the stun to mezz and making rage/focus work the way they did before the patch. Instead these issues just lingered for months creating a frustrating pvp environment for everyone.

 

 

2 - Will we get a big class balance patch before the expasion is released ? If yes would it be possible to give an approximate date of when it will be released ? What about a patch that fixes bubblestun and rage/focus ?

 

Because they don't need to be fixed (well at least the way some are suggesting), bubble stun do need to have an effect on resolve but that's it otherwise what is the point of having a sorc on your team ?

As for rage and smash, reverting it would simply make it that tree is never played again, we already nerfed Annihilation, so are we simply telling Maras to pick Carnage and dance all day long ? The rage tree only have that as a viable attack mode, they are not good in 1v1, they are good when some are congregating.

3- Even though there are tons of threads with proposals of magical fixes to classes , it is nearly impossible to design a game that offers diversity in gameplay and it is completely balanced. Is there a plan to release patches with class balances more frequently in order to avoid a huge number of FOTMs classes like it has happened recently ?

Most of these solutions are "I can't kill it with ease so please nerf it in the great way so I can squish it next time I see it in pvp".

4- How much pvp will be left on Ilum on the incoming 1.7 patch , from the info we got so far it seems like a pve centered patch.

This is something we need an answer to.

5- Are there any plans of creating warzone queues that separate premades and solo players ? Or even a matching system that would try to put premade teams against other premade teams and only match premade teams against pugs as a last resort ?

There is nothing wrong with premades and pugs, I have been on both and play against both. In 10-49 and 50 bracket. And they defenitly do not give you a win when you are in one. Our guild isn't really into PvP (we do more PvE), However a small number of us does PvP, we like to play together, but that's it. We are not smashing the opponents, we are not finishing Huttball 6-0, and we are not controlling 3 turrets in Alderaan. Some coordinate and use teamspeak and what not, and even those lose. I have been on pugs that decimated the reps in certain games (I only play Empire for now). Premades is a false problem.

 

[sarcasm]

Also Snipers need nerfing. I can't leap to them and kill them, and they kill me if I attack them.

They all cheat and pull up some cover and hide behind it, how am I supposed to leap and smash them ?

And if I run to them they can kill me :(

Please nerf, or simply make an option when queuing in PVP to select "No snipers".

Also those damn assassins keep on going into stealth and don't let me target them :(

Stealth is cheating...

[/sarcasm]

Maybe not you, but some of the people sound exactly like that, and their demands are ridiculous. I am not telling you L2P because if you have spent enough time you probably do know. The issue is "You are not suppose to be the Hercules of PvP". Some will kill you with ease and some you will kill with ease.

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[sarcasm]

Also Snipers need nerfing. I can't leap to them and kill them, and they kill me if I attack them.

They all cheat and pull up some cover and hide behind it, how am I supposed to leap and smash them ?

And if I run to them they can kill me :(

Please nerf, or simply make an option when queuing in PVP to select "No snipers".

Also those damn assassins keep on going into stealth and don't let me target them :(

Stealth is cheating...

[/sarcasm]

Maybe not you, but some of the people sound exactly like that, and their demands are ridiculous. I am not telling you L2P because if you have spent enough time you probably do know. The issue is "You are not suppose to be the Hercules of PvP". Some will kill you with ease and some you will kill with ease.

 

I agree that are people like that in the forums, but don't get me wrong I don't want to see smash getting nerfed to the ground but I think it needs to be tuned down. And I do think that bubble stun has it place, but its not all over a team.

 

When i play my jugg on smash mode I can usually take 50% of someones health within 2-3 gds with 6k smash, 4k force scream and 2k vicious lash (or whatever is called) and thats not mentioning that smash usually hits anyone near the target for over 5k, and i can do that without being an exceptional player on my jugg, the good ones do even better. Before there was actually a risk into misusing a smash now there is none as its effective cooldown is 8s and its much harder to miss it now. It just needs to be toned down or adjusted so its like combat/carnage where you actually have to think so you dont waste your bust.

 

 

Also regarding the premades vs pug I do think there is something that needs to be done. Not because premades have a magical advantage, but because:

A) Usually more experienced and dedicated players take part in premade groups

B) If you play in a premade you always risk geting a terrible pug on your group that loses the game for you by not calling incs , abandoning nodes and etc. Given A the chance of that happening is less likely of you are paired with another premade.

C) It is much more fun to have a close and competitive match than one where you just face roll people and 3 cap them within the first 2-3 minutes.

 

Now all these come from a premade perspective , ofc these scenarios do not always happen, you can win against premade teams with pugs and some premades are not excellent, but at least in my experience since launch you are more likely to win in a pug vs premade situation if you are on the premade side.

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You expect responses and communication from a team that is barely above competence level.

You expect them to understand PVP and it's imbalances the way we feel them.

You expect Joveth and the rest of them to be of any use.

You, my friend, expect too much. I was once like that (prior to F2P launch). Not any more.

 

The only thing you can expect from this CS or dev team are some wage promises and lots and lots of boolpoop statements. I don't understand how they earn their pay, I don't understand how they see themselves as professionals and I don't understand what will have to happen for them to realize they are as worthless as cheese holes.

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As for rage and smash, reverting it would simply make it that tree is never played again, we already nerfed Annihilation, so are we simply telling Maras to pick Carnage and dance all day long ? The rage tree only have that as a viable attack mode, they are not good in 1v1, they are good when some are congregating.

Slash 15% crit bonus which hits for 2.5-2.8, dispatch crit hit 4-5k 15% crit bonus, force scream 4-5k crit, smash auto crit aoe 6-7k 3-4k on other maras. And anni is still very much perfectly viable, only self-healing has be nerfed by 0.5% if I recall well? And let's face it sents/maras it's not they don't have any def abilities, they just made the immortal 1v1 class a bit more down to earth. Carnage might be preferred for speed/tran bonuses which help if you are a responder or in hutball, but certainly watch/anni damage is really good and applicable to all classes.

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You can choose any of the following responses for your questions OP:

 

- We're looking into it, but currently do not have an ETA. Thank you for your patience. (the ultimate answer for everything)

- We will fix these within 2 weeks (said no one ever from BW)

- No dev feedback (most likely scenario)... seriously, what was the last time you got an actual worthwhile feedback on pvp and class balance? There had been hundreds of posts whining on bubblepop and smash, not a single dev feedback (maybe there was one on the bubble thing but nothing happened there either).

 

It's not like I don't agree with your query, but it's unrealistic it will be answered by any dev. Recently they either don't patch servers, or just do cartel market updates.

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Slash 15% crit bonus which hits for 2.5-2.8, dispatch crit hit 4-5k 15% crit bonus, force scream 4-5k crit, smash auto crit aoe 6-7k 3-4k on other maras. And anni is still very much perfectly viable, only self-healing has be nerfed by 0.5% if I recall well? And let's face it sents/maras it's not they don't have any def abilities, they just made the immortal 1v1 class a bit more down to earth. Carnage might be preferred for speed/tran bonuses which help if you are a responder or in hutball, but certainly watch/anni damage is really good and applicable to all classes.

 

Self Healing was cut by half, by 1%. Annihilation is not a viable tree for pvp because cleansing kills the dps. Killing smash will effectively make the Carnage tree the only tree that can be played on Marauders (in PvP). No one is going to pick Annihilation where all your internal damage is gone. And don't get me wrong, I don't play the rage tree on my Marauder, I still play the carnage tree. But I would hate to see everyone using only 1 tree.

 

ps, what I meant by they are not good in 1v1 was a reference to the rage tree, not in general. The rage tree (in my opinion) is an aoe tree. But yes we do have good defense CD, that's what doesn't make us squishy, when you feel it is getting hot, you can just get the hell out.

Edited by znihilist
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You can choose any of the following responses for your questions OP:

 

- We're looking into it, but currently do not have an ETA. Thank you for your patience. (the ultimate answer for everything)

- We will fix these within 2 weeks (said no one ever from BW)

- No dev feedback (most likely scenario)... seriously, what was the last time you got an actual worthwhile feedback on pvp and class balance? There had been hundreds of posts whining on bubblepop and smash, not a single dev feedback (maybe there was one on the bubble thing but nothing happened there either).

 

It's not like I don't agree with your query, but it's unrealistic it will be answered by any dev. Recently they either don't patch servers, or just do cartel market updates.

 

Well they did say they wanted to improve the interaction with us, so here is their chance ,a post quoting a dev on the issue , and questions directed to the dev team. IF they really want to improve feedback here is their chance.

 

Also with some stuff from 1.7 datamined I would hope they would manifest and say something about it....

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Self Healing was cut by half, by 1%. Annihilation is not a viable tree for pvp because cleansing kills the dps. Killing smash will effectively make the Carnage tree the only tree that can be played on Marauders (in PvP). No one is going to pick Annihilation where all your internal damage is gone. And don't get me wrong, I don't play the rage tree on my Marauder, I still play the carnage tree. But I would hate to see everyone using only 1 tree.

Yes I know what you mean with cleansing, but it's very rare. It is only one class that can cleanse the anni attacks (sages) and it is not as easy to spot who needs cleansing if there is a big crowd. As a healer sage I might throw it as part of my rotation if there are force dots, but when I play as a dps sage it has to be called as it is fairly difficult to spot it in the millions of debuffs.

 

ps, what I meant by they are not good in 1v1 was a reference to the rage tree, not in general. The rage tree (in my opinion) is an aoe tree. But yes we do have good defense CD, that's what doesn't make us squishy, when you feel it is getting hot, you can just get the hell out.

Yes I agree, rage is not the best tree of maras for 1v1 and it's more for aoe, but overall it is still very good in comparison to all dps specs of all classes. Zen fills up your focus bar which allows to use hard hitting abilities, in other words rage has the easiest focus management and I very very rarely use my basic attack when playing this spec. Can't say the same for watch/anni, especially if you dont take the 0m leap and you go for force cammo as many builds have suggested.

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Yes I know what you mean with cleansing, but it's very rare. It is only one class that can cleanse the anni attacks (sages) and it is not as easy to spot who needs cleansing if there is a big crowd. As a healer sage I might throw it as part of my rotation if there are force dots, but when I play as a dps sage it has to be called as it is fairly difficult to spot it in the millions of debuffs.

 

 

Yes I agree, rage is not the best tree of maras for 1v1 and it's more for aoe, but overall it is still very good in comparison to all dps specs of all classes. Zen fills up your focus bar which allows to use hard hitting abilities, in other words rage has the easiest focus management and I very very rarely use my basic attack when playing this spec. Can't say the same for watch/anni, especially if you dont take the 0m leap and you go for force cammo as many builds have suggested.

 

Wrong about the dots. The watchman/ anni dots can be cleanse by operatives and mercs, sorcs can only cleanse those if they are specced as heals.

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Well they did say they wanted to improve the interaction with us, so here is their chance ,a post quoting a dev on the issue , and questions directed to the dev team. IF they really want to improve feedback here is their chance.

 

Also with some stuff from 1.7 datamined I would hope they would manifest and say something about it....

 

They've made that same claim before...many times lol, seems like the default first answer to every "Meet Dev XXX" is "We know we need to communicate better with you...". We were even asked to forgive them in the past, and not judge them by their past, but by what they did going forward...and it never has improved, only ever gotten worse.

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Wrong about the dots. The watchman/ anni dots can be cleanse by operatives and mercs, sorcs can only cleanse those if they are specced as heals.

 

Are you sure about this? Based on this, I would say that bleed are force attack types (I would be surprised if a sentinel had tech attack type) doing elemental damage. Purge by default cleanses force effects, contrary to ops and mercs. In other words, sages can cleanse sentinels' dots but not vanguards' (unless they spec to in the healing tree).

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Are you sure about this? Based on this, I would say that bleed are force attack types (I would be surprised if a sentinel had tech attack type) doing elemental damage. Purge by default cleanses force effects, contrary to ops and mercs. In other words, sages can cleanse sentinels' dots but not vanguards' (unless they spec to in the healing tree).

 

I am pretty sure about that , as a sage/sorc you can cleanse the dot from the rage/focus tree but not from watchman/anni , i know this from playing my dps sorc and sentinel . I don't know if it is a bug or just bad design but its how it works atm. Unless they change this quite recently as i havent seen a mara or sent that doesn't play smash for ages now.

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I am pretty sure about that , as a sage/sorc you can cleanse the dot from the rage/focus tree but not from watchman/anni , i know this from playing my dps sorc and sentinel . I don't know if it is a bug or just bad design but its how it works atm. Unless they change this quite recently as i havent seen a mara or sent that doesn't play smash for ages now.

That would be surprising. I even take back what I said about even specced sages cleansing vans dots, the spec is to remove physical effects not tech ones. Back on the topic, there is white damage which is normal and yellow which is either force or tech. Sages can cleanse force effects and ops/mercs tech effects (see also this thread post number 3). I would be damned if an op/merc can cleanse sentinels force attacks as they are not supposed to do so and a sage cannot who is meant to be. Maybe there were more than 2 mental/force effects on you when you cleansed them? I dont't know how they are selected so maybe that's why.

 

EDIT: yes you can certainly cleanse force exhaustion/crush for the same reasons you can cleanse sent/mara burn/bleed effect.

EDIT: For the same reason you can cleanse weaken mind/affliction or mind crush/crusing darkness on you cast from another sage/sorc. An ope/merc cannot cleanse themselves.

Edited by MusicRider
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That would be surprising. I even take back what I said about even specced sages cleansing vans dots, the spec is to remove physical effects not tech ones. Back on the topic, there is white damage which is normal and yellow which is either force or tech. Sages can cleanse force effects and ops/mercs tech effects (see also this thread post number 3). I would be damned if an op/merc can cleanse sentinels force attacks as they are not supposed to do so and a sage cannot who is meant to be. Maybe there were more than 2 mental/force effects on you when you cleansed them? I dont't know how they are selected so maybe that's why.

 

EDIT: yes you can certainly cleanse force exhaustion/crush for the same reasons you can cleanse sent/mara burn/bleed effect.

EDIT: For the same reason you can cleanse weaken mind/affliction or mind crush/crusing darkness on you cast from another sage/sorc. An ope/merc cannot cleanse themselves.

 

There is an ability in the sorc healer tree called : Sith purity . Consequences of this ability is that now purge removes physical effects as well, bleeding is a physical effect is not ? It is not normal for the marauder to have a tech effect. It can either be a physical or force effect.

Edited by znihilist
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Hey Dev Team! I came back to SWTOR just like you wanted!

 

And so did a lot of other people! So this is the time you get your pvp team in GEAR, and start weeding out the unbalances, as im rolling a merc this time around, knowing they are the trashiest pvp class for heals AND dps..

 

I hope to be fixed NO LATER than the new expansion!

 

IMO, Mercs need an ability that gives freedom of movement for a duration on time, and healing mercs need this to be longer or usable twice in a row on us and a friendly target!

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There is an ability in the sorc healer tree called : Sith purity . Consequences of this ability is that now purge removes physical effects as well, bleeding is a physical effect is not ? It is not normal for the marauder to have a tech effect. It can either be a physical or force effect.

 

I agree that it has to be a mental, physical or force effect. If force exhaustion is considered a force effect then I don't see why bleed would be considered something different. Mental and physical should have to do with some respect to cc. For example I know for sure as I use it all the time I can cleanse and unmezz whirlwinds but I cannot cleanse flashbang mezz. I can also cleanse force slow and I would think of it as a mental effect, but I don't think I can cleanse snipers leg shot, certainly not without speccing on it and still need to tested as I haven't done so. Can't recall for awe (knights' mezz). The only exception is sever force/creeping terror which respects nothing.

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I steadfastly agree with the OP on the first four points but,

 

5- Are there any plans of creating warzone queues that separate premades and solo players ? Or even a matching system that would try to put premade teams against other premade teams and only match premade teams against pugs as a last resort ?

I see this idea on the forums a lot but the fact of the matter is that pretty much no server has the activity to consistently support separate queues. It would simply take way too long to get into a game. Nice in theory, impracticable in application.

 

 

That said, they really do need to be more open with the PvP community, and answers to the questions in the OP have been both long-awaited and long-overdue. I hope this thread/community gets the responses it deserves.

 

p.s. somewhat unrelated but still. threads with the datamined info on 1.7 class balance are getting deleted as we speak. oh boyyyyyyyy lol

Edited by EatenByDistance
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I steadfastly agree with the OP on the first four points but,

 

 

I see this idea on the forums a lot but the fact of the matter is that pretty much no server has the activity to consistently support separate queues. It would simply take way too long to get into a game. Nice in theory, impracticable in application.

 

 

That said, they really do need to be more open with the PvP community, and answers to the questions in the OP have been both long-awaited and long-overdue. I hope this thread/community gets the responses it deserves.

 

p.s. somewhat unrelated but still. threads with the datamined info on 1.7 class balance are getting deleted as we speak. oh boyyyyyyyy lol

 

Yeah well but it would be nice to know if they have something in mind that touch that issue no ? Or an actuall explanation why its not viable to have something like this at the moment. Or what their metrics say about this.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well the main disadvantage anni/watchman for example has over the other dots specs in the game is that every bloody healer can cleanse it cause they're physical and not force/tech.

 

then again not many healers cleanse on pvp, so its good enough for normals.

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