I agree with this very much. Star Wars universe itself is supposed very diverse from its species, where humans are in the majority and the aliens in the minority, who on occasion are discriminated badly due them being very different to humans. Its only good imo that there are more people from various ethnic backgrounds portraying the characters, especially humans, since white people aren't the only humans in the galaxy as we first saw in the Original trilogy when there were almost none other colored humans (apart from Lando and maybe someone else?).

Amen, but I thought there was more aliens than humans, but the movies/books/ video games always focus on the humans? That's what I think is strange about the new trilogy, barely any non-humans exept on Canto Bight.

Because they are being diverse for the sake of being diverse and it adversely affects the story. Though on the flip side the story is so bad I just generally hate the character.

 

Take Holdo. Make Holdo a man and I'd still hate the character for utter stupidity the character shows. Same for Hux. Make Hux a woman, Hux is still an irredeemable idiot.

 

See my over all general issue is that every single one of the new characters is just HORRIBLE. The best of the lot was Poe before 8 and my value in his character has just plummeted since 8 came out.

 

Being diverse when it works for the story is one thing. Being diverse just to show "hey look at how diverse our cast is, aren't we just so PC" then having TERRIBLE characters, is just bad.

 

Look at the prequels. Very diverse cast. Just look at the make up of the first Jedi council we see testing Anakin. Men and women of all shapes and sizes and it didn't feel forced. It naturally was.

 

Hell out of 1-3 my favorite character is Mace Windy. Why? Because he's a good character, who just happens to be a dark skinned man(I refuse to use African American or black man, it's just silly and asinine IMHO) who played a very interesting character.

 

Same with my all time favorite star trek captain(yes I'm going there just as an example). It's Sisko. Why? Not because he was a dark skinned man, it's becauae Avery Brooks did a damn good job showing a man of many depths and strengths. I knew off the bat as a young man I'd like Sisko when he punched Q right in the face, no fraks given.

 

I want good CHARACTERS. Like we have in this game. I could care less if they are male, female, zabarak, human etc.

 

All of the same sex and species or different. Just for god sakes give me good characters!

 

Being diverse just to be diverse without having a good ensemble of characters, is just flatly stupid.

I'm sorry, but this sure sounds like your problem is with what you see as flat or bad characters, so . . . why did you bring up "forced diversity" to criticize the movies? What does the racial, ethnic, or gender makeup of the characters have to do with your criticism?

(I also strongly disagree with the criticism itself -- Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe, and Rose all come across like actual people, IMO, both in terms of the performances and the writing. The prequel characters, on the other hand, generally alternated between feeling like cardboard cutouts and responding to circumstances in ways that just didn't feel genuine or authentic.)

Look at the prequels. Very diverse cast. Just look at the make up of the first Jedi council we see testing Anakin. Men and women of all shapes and sizes and it didn't feel forced. It naturally was.

The prequels focused on a traditional "power trio" made up of two white men and one white woman (Qui-Gon / Obi-Wan / Padme in Ep I, Obi-Wan / Anakin / Padme in II and III) with a tag-along kid (also a white guy) and a zany alien sidekick in I. The idea that these movies were "very diverse" because of background characters and a few supporting characters seems bizarre to me to begin with. But more to the point - what is it that makes you say that diverse group of minor characters was "natural" but the main characters of the sequels are "forced"?

a dark skinned man(I refuse to use African American or black man, it's just silly and asinine IMHO)

I mean . . . . . . what?

Amen, but I thought there was more aliens than humans, but the movies/books/ video games always focus on the humans? That's what I think is strange about the new trilogy, barely any non-humans exept on Canto Bight.

SWTOR's character creation says that the humans are the largest species by numbers in galaxy. I'm pretty sure that I've read on elsewhere too, but can't find it from Wookieepedia.

And I agree, not many non-humans shown, even when considered that the Resistance is supposed to make from various species, just like the Rebel Alliance. I suppose its just easier to portray more humans than trying to bring more aliens.

I'm sorry, but this sure sounds like your problem is with what you see as flat or bad characters, so . . . why did you bring up "forced diversity" to criticize the movies? What does the racial, ethnic, or gender makeup of the characters have to do with your criticism?

 

(I also strongly disagree with the criticism itself -- Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe, and Rose all come across like actual people, IMO, both in terms of the performances and the writing. The prequel characters, on the other hand, generally alternated between feeling like cardboard cutouts and responding to circumstances in ways that just didn't feel genuine or authentic.)

 

 

The prequels focused on a traditional "power trio" made up of two white men and one white woman (Qui-Gon / Obi-Wan / Padme in Ep I, Obi-Wan / Anakin / Padme in II and III) with a tag-along kid (also a white guy) and a zany alien sidekick in I. The idea that these movies were "very diverse" because of background characters and a few supporting characters seems bizarre to me to begin with. But more to the point - what is it that makes you say that diverse group of minor characters was "natural" but the main characters of the sequels are "forced"?

 

 

I mean . . . . . . what?

Far as the first point. It felt like LA was screaming "look at our diverse cast!" for no better reason than to say said quote.

To the second point, I feel they could of gotten a better cast together than what they had. Same going into solo. Alden for solo. Half the time just cringe worthy. I mean the kiss at the end of the last Jedi, even boyega is going "wait wha?"

Third point. Personal belief. I'm just over African american or white or what have you. Why can't they jist be human?

Far as the cast the only 3 that turned a decent performance IMHO Andy Serkis, Mark Hamil, and Adam Driver at times. Yes I know. That sounds stupid but they did. Finn was backstepped then blocked from actually having an arc. Poe was portrayed as a half cocked idiot, Rose, just terrible could of done way better with her, Rey had no conflict and her acting wasn't nearly as good as last movie and Holdo...ugghhh.

No no. TLJ was diverse with humans for the sake of being diverse and well to the detriment to the story, what little of it there was.

I mean as someone else said, where were all the aliens outside of the caretakers? Especially in the resistance. Outside if Ackbar who they casually killed, really didn't see any.

TLJ was a disjointed mess and made the Phantom Menace look just short of Shakespeare.

Credit where credit is due -- IMHO there are two things the Prequel Trilogy did better than the Sequel Trilogy thus far:

1. Large numbers of varied, visually interesting aliens.
   
2. New starship and vehicle designs.

No.2 is something I really do wish TFA and TLJ had done a better job with -- sticking with TIE Fighters and X-Wings and having the Resurgent Star Destroyers look so derivative of the Imperial Star Destroyers feels like a missed opportunity.

I understand wanting the ships to feel familiar and evocative of the Original Trilogy ships, but they could have come up with designs that "rhymed" with the iconic OT models, rather than practically copied them. The Venator ships from RotS and The Clone Wars series are a great example of this being done right. It would have been nice if the First Order's Star Destroyers looked more like the Harrowers from this game, the Eclipse from the Legends continuity, or something else that was a little more distinct.

As to No. 1, again, I agree the PT did this better than the ST has so far, but the Sequels have been about on par with the OT. The EU has always made a point of the Rebellion being more diverse than the Imperial military, but on-screen we didn't really see all that much of it in the OT -- aside from Chewie, every Rebel on Yavin or Hoth that we saw was human, and I'm pretty sure in RotJ the only aliens we saw in the Alliance were two or three Mon Cals, including Ackbar, and Nien Nunb.

(Also, I hope this goes without saying, but the topic of diversity and representation is a very different issue than the topic of having lots of interesting-looking fictional aliens in a movie. This thread seems a bit like one's running into the other at some points.)

As bad as the prequels were in respects at least they have one major thing that the new ones don't have. DIRECTION. The new movies have absolutely zero idea where they are going and what they are doing.

 

Toss in forced diversity and social justice crap, just makes for terrible story telling.

 

I mean I can overlook a lot, but absolutely zero direction, no real plot development, horrible character arcs if any and just bad over all characters(yes 8 has TERRIBLE CHARACTERS) and completely destroying everything Luke Skywalker fought and gave for...

 

Yeah I'll take 1-3 any day. And I highly doubt JJ is going to save 9.

wait... you say the ST doesn't have direction... but the PT had an idea where they were going? ***? Even with the end point of Anakin being Vader they failed at showing his fall.

force diversity social justice crap.... ***?

Third point. Personal belief. I'm just over African american or white or what have you. Why can't they jist be human?

that makes even less sense they are just human... so why are you complaining about it?

It's really weird considering the OT prided itself on its diveristy with having Leia not being a helpless princess and Lando. So how is the ST any different?

No no. TLJ was diverse with humans for the sake of being diverse and well to the detriment to the story, what little of it there was.

ok so here's the problem.

now its more then ok to say the actors didn't do a good job. That's your opinion... but now you are also saying casting actors of different races HURT the story.... how? How could it do that? Unless you are actually trying to argue that an actors race determines how good of an actor they are.

wait... you say the ST doesn't have direction... but the PT had an idea where they were going? ***? Even with the end point of Anakin being Vader they failed at showing his fall.

 

force diversity social justice crap.... ***?

 

 

 

 

 

 

that makes even less sense they are just human... so why are you complaining about it?

 

It's really weird considering the OT prided itself on its diveristy with having Leia not being a helpless princess and Lando. So how is the ST any different?

 

 

ok so here's the problem.

 

now its more then ok to say the actors didn't do a good job. That's your opinion... but now you are also saying casting actors of different races HURT the story.... how? How could it do that? Unless you are actually trying to argue that an actors race determines how good of an actor they are.

To the last question no. I think they didn't get the best actors for the job. It could of been a complete cast of (insert race here) and as long as the story and acting was there I seriously don't care.

Just look at the original star wars. Mostly white people as the principal actors but the story was good, acting was there so it didn't matter. It all came together to make a good story.

If you changed out all the principal people for black actors, long as the acting was there, wouldn't bother me for ANH. But the problem there is, Harrison, Carrie, Mark and Sir Alec made those roles iconic so yeah.

My biggest issue with the new cast characters, they are mostly 1 dimensional and flat. Hell out of all of them, Poe to me is the most interesting and he's right now less memorable than Wedge Antillies.

For as Dennis Lawson is in the original trilogy, he's far more memorable than any of the new cast.

To me that's a problem. Furthermore all of the characters suffer from seriously bad writing, especially in TLJ.

1. Where are the aliens?

2. Why are men completely shat upon as characters? Name 1 male in TLJ who did something right or didn't look like an idiot. Prime example is Finn. He got so robbed and made to look one again like an utter buffoon. Poe, is made to look like a loose cannon while probably being the most sane individual in the Resistance. Hux....don't even get me started on that jackwagon. Kylo? Is made to look like a weak repeatedly to pump up Rey and thereby rob him of any real threat.

And Luke. Oh poor Luke. I won't even touch that.

That's just characters. The story is a train wreck. The opening battle just merely shows that Mr Johnson has no clue about military tactics. There were plot contrivance, utter waste of time on Cantobyte, full frontal social justice in said wasted time and other things.

Honestly only things I did like was thd cinmatography was on point, the score was well done, and the flying sequence with the Falcon was pretty good.

It looked and sounded like a SW movie, but honestly reminded me of a poorly written fan anime screen adaptation. Not a well written cohesive story.

Hell I could of written that movie better!

Tell ya what I will do a thread breaking down TLJ and where Rian Johnson screwed up and how I would of fixed it.

 

Tell ya what I will do a thread breaking down TLJ and where Rian Johnson screwed up and how I would of fixed it.

please do because my next question was going to be what specifically was bad writing

please do because my next question was going to be what specifically was bad writing

Won't be today, but I will sit down and do it.