Simple as this. In a ranked environment you can simply destroy classes by stacking smash players (3-4) and assisting one focus target - usually a class with a pull. You can kill players under focus fire this way very quickly (instagib in some cases). This is why many ranked teams stack this class. .

A rated team that needs 5 character (pull + 4 smashers) to focus fire 1 character at a time with smashes is going to have a very very low rating.

When we get the new level cap Bioware will be changeing skill trees as well, I am sure that all of you that complain will have a new complaint about something else that makes you suck at PVP. So if you read this please chill out and wait for the expansion.

 

Food for thought.... a hybrid spec shadow and alot of other build/classes can put up alot higher damage numbers than focus spec guardians and juggs. You can balance the classes but you cant balance the people playing them

*laugh* This guy's talking about other ppl sucking at PvP and he doesn't even know what he's talking about....funny.

PvP is about burst damage, over all sustained damage is meaningless to the objective of winning any war zone.

^^^

Which is also why Smash should not be nerfed and every DPS class should get some sort of setup to do similar situational burst...

^^^

Which is also why Smash should not be nerfed and every DPS class should get some sort of setup to do similar situational burst...

Agree. Deception, Pyro, Rage, MM, engineer, carnage all have nice burst. Other dps trees need to be able to match it. Some ACs can stack/chain burst more often (pyro, deception) some it's every 9-12 seconds (rage). Both set ups work, but a burst option needs to be available in all trees.

You want MORE burst?

TTK is the problem. We don't need more burst.

You want MORE burst?

 

TTK is the problem. We don't need more burst.

Equal burst. Correct use of defensive cooldowns, commonsense game play and a balanced team reduce TTK.

Operatives first nerf was fine and completely called for. They where able to stunlock people to death. I've played against current operatives and they are still very much able to burst someone hard from stealth and have a lot of ways if you play wrong to take next to no damage while killing you.

They were only able to kill people so quickly because of the insane adrenal + relic + warzone adrenal stacking, smashers were capable of 10k hits with adrenal/relic stacking back then thanks to poorly geared players, operatives were lucky to get 7k with adrenal/relic stacking against poorly geared players as well. Operatives would be perfectly fine if they had stopped at ridding the game of adrenal stacking. Go play an operative and come back here and tell me they are fine, instead of whining that you got killed by an operative because you don't know how to deal with one

People whined about a burst class destroying them because they had 10k HP and the operative was using adrenal stacking back in the 1.1 and 1.2 days.

Equal burst. Correct use of defensive cooldowns, commonsense game play and a balanced team reduce TTK.

^^^^^

A rated team that needs 5 character (pull + 4 smashers) to focus fire 1 character at a time with smashes is going to have a very very low rating.

The highest rated team on my server do exactly this. So not sure how you work that out.

TTK is the problem. We don't need more burst.

IDK Justin.

If a DPS spec can't down a healer (in a reasonable amount of time)without the use of CC, then TTK is not low enough for objective based WZs. <----This is the case for most DPS specs... Smash is the one of few specs worthy of being called "burst" in PVP. TTK is fine right now and actually could be lowered a bit IMO.

The best route IMO is to decrease Smash to a similar AoE like DF/FiB, but then increase mitigation and damage curves on the EXP scale. All crits would be in the 6-7k range for all classes and require some setup. If TTK is too low then adjust Trauma to a smaller percentage, but all of this is contingent on them adjusting resolve, which would be step 1 in the PvP Rehab...

It would also make carrying FULL EXP actually better than hybrid sets.

Yup, I said it before 1.2, and people railed me, but I'll say it again. BUFF EXP, so it is actually 100% BiS for PvP, regardless of role.

Edit: What kills me even more is that I have not read one single time of someone suggesting that why not just keep primary target damage on smash the same, but have a set percentage lower damage on the AOE damage, like say 15%-20%? I know there are other abilities out there on different classes that use a similar mechanic.

this sounds good or smash puts buffs on everyone (maybe not the person targeted) who is damaged by a super proc smash which decreases the dmg of any super procced smash done for like 2-5 seconds following the orginal which maybe decreases the dmg of the next ones by like 20-50% on atleast the aoe dmg

P.S. the first paragraph is from someone elses post in this thread, i dunno how to show who's quote it is in my post, oh well

 

this sounds good or smash puts buffs on everyone (maybe not the person targeted) who is damaged by a super proc smash which decreases the dmg of any super procced smash done for like 2-5 seconds following the orginal which maybe decreases the dmg of the next ones by like 20-50% on atleast the aoe dmg

 

P.S. the first paragraph is from someone elses post in this thread, i dunno how to show who's quote it is in my post, oh well

The problem with just nerfing Smash is that people fail to realize that global for global, Smash spec output is about where it needs to be.. That is why the OP said damage numbers at the end of a WZ are on par, if not lower than, other classes/spec. My Sage can hit similar outputs over two globals as a Smash spec, and I know because I have WH on each of them. The difference is my Guard has better situational burst, while my Sage does not. So we should be talking about buffing other classes, not nerfing Smash/Sweep...

When we get the new level cap Bioware will be changeing skill trees as well, I am sure that all of you that complain will have a new complaint about something else that makes you suck at PVP. So if you read this please chill out and wait for the expansion.

 

Food for thought.... a hybrid spec shadow and alot of other build/classes can put up alot higher damage numbers than focus spec guardians and juggs. You can balance the classes but you cant balance the people playing them

I got a 7k maul on my sin the other day for the first time, likely a pve geared sorc, usually it's 5500ish 1 out of every 7 times or so. On my Jugg, I get 8k smashes multiple times a week, but usually 6800-7400ish, Every time, against multiple targets.

Either nerf smash or make my maul auto-crit like that every single time. Also, make it so that I can aim my maul and maul through 2-3 people, that would be cool.

Seriously though, smash is going to get a big nerf, the developers would have to be incredibly stupid not to do so, because this ability is seriously ruining pvp, that and stun bubbles. What was really fun the other day was getting a team against 6 min-maxed smashers and 2 stunbubble sorcs. Yeah, we basically got 3capped before the match was over. Fortunately though, I happened to be on my own smash jugg at the time, so I just leaped to the biggest group I saw (with unstoppable), smashed the smashers, and got my 75k medal before I died.

Either make it so that every class can get a 75k medal in one 20-30sec fight or nerf smash so that one specific class cannot. Otherwise, it's hardly balanced.

Lastly, in terms of Any sin regardless of spec being able to repeatedly outdps an even mediocre smash monkey.....lulz!

I've seen 1 sin on the harbinger in a pug pull ~750k damage in a very long voidstar match, using a hybrid spec and while being pockethealed. Otherwise, max I see typically is ~350k-450k. I've broken 500k a handful of times using pure darkness spec, but otherwise usually I land in the typical range stated above. On my smash monkey (that I've only been playing for less than a month), I can pull 300k without even trying, but usually 450k-550k+ (and again, that's with unstoppable, if I bothered to spec into crush, I'd get even bigger numbers), outdpsing all other sins, and only being outdpsed by either other smash monkeys (using pure smash monkey spec) or pts.

Bottom line, Smash monkey spec is pretty much the only spec in the game that can pull huge numbers with arguably the easiest/fastest rotation in the game.

If healthpools were 40k-60k, then taking a 7-10k smash wouldn't be a problem, but they're not, they're 20k or closer to 18.5-19k if you're fully min-maxed. So if you're say a fully min-maxed sorc, 1 smash is going to take away approximately half of your health, if there's only 2 smash monkeys, then you're going to die instantly. If there's 3 or more, expect your entire team to die instantly.

"lol just move!" know what I love about that logic other than the hilarity from the utter lack of logic? The fact that when people try to outrun my smash monkey/move when they see me and i smash anyway and still hit them at 4.99 meters away. Great stuff!

but yeah, on that note, good rotation to get nice big group smashes: enrage, leap, chilling scream, smash. Seeing more and more smash monkeys using the aoe slow, pretty effective.

Nerf Smash Monkeys or Buff Operatives to give 10k hidden strikes + 10k backstabs, so that there's at least 1 other class that can counter smash monkeys other than just another smash monkey.

The problem with just nerfing Smash is that people fail to realize that global for global, Smash spec output is about where it needs to be.. That is why the OP said damage numbers at the end of a WZ are on par, if not lower than, other classes/spec. My Sage can hit similar outputs over two globals as a Smash spec, and I know because I have WH on each of them. The difference is my Guard has better situational burst, while my Sage does not. So we should be talking about buffing other classes, not nerfing Smash/Sweep...

Giving sages more burst is tricky without making them OP. I dont care what they do, but smash and bubble stunning has made pvp very very boring.

Definitely not the biggest balance problem I've seen in an MMO... maybe over reacting a little considering the time line? It's not like it's been this way since release and the dev's have addressed it somewhat.

lolwut?

Giving sages more burst is tricky without making them OP. I dont care what they do, but smash and bubble stunning has made pvp very very boring.

Buff shock... so it hits for about 4k on crit.

This gives sorcs some comparative burst to other DPS classes and applies to both DPS trees.

lolwut?

They said they were monitoring it's performance in PvP.

Did you miss that statement?

Buff shock... so it hits for about 4k on crit.

 

This gives sorcs some comparative burst to other DPS classes and applies to both DPS trees.

Nah. That wont do it. Far too heavy on force resources for balance for instance. I have always seen this as a situational skill, a finisher, not something I rely on.

That wouldnt fix the class imo. Interesting idea though. Could maybe make it an execute.

You didn't see the new assassin skill tree in 1.7? We get 5 more points and the new skill is Increases lacerate damage 500% and lowers its cost when in tank stance to 1 force.

lmao! That would be a good way to "balance" other classes to be in line with smashers. lol, lacerate, I lol every time I see that ability.

Nah. That wont do it. Far too heavy on force resources for balance for instance. I have always seen this as a situational skill, a finisher, not something I rely on.

 

That wouldnt fix the class imo.

I like it but I always lean on the simple fix in order to not over do it. I like the idea of buffing shock since it's an instant ability that can quickly be thrown into a rotation and has a fairly low CD.

They said they were monitoring it's performance in PvP.

 

Did you miss that statement?

Cool story bro. Yeah, I did miss that, but despite that, I can predict the results:

"hmm, no. Working As Intended. Thank You For Playing Star Wars™: The Old Republic™"

They said they were going to adjust the stunbubbles, eventually, in some way. They havent' said anything about adjusting Anything related to lolsmash.

I like it but I always lean on the simple fix in order to not over do it. I like the idea of buffing shock since it's an instant ability that can quickly be thrown into a rotation and has a fairly low CD.

They'd have to add in a spec-able damage increase somewhere in the lightning tree. High enough that a full healer couldn't grab it. We wouldn't want a healer of any spec with an instant 4k+ attack.

For reference project on my shadow (with damage increase procs) hits between 4-7k depending on upheaval (double shock). So we wouldn't want to increase that damage at all.

Cool story bro. Yeah, I did miss that, but despite that, I can predict the results:

 

"hmm, no. Working As Intended. Thank You For Playing Star Wars™: The Old Republic™"

 

They said they were going to adjust the stunbubbles, eventually, in some way. They havent' said anything about adjusting Anything related to lolsmash.

Bitter much?

And you're incorrect... they have made several statements regarding rage/focus spec, monitoring it and coming up with ways to possibly balance it.

I sense a recruit geared sorc that hates the world right now...

Cool story bro. Yeah, I did miss that, but despite that, I can predict the results:

 

"hmm, no. Working As Intended. Thank You For Playing Star Wars™: The Old Republic™"

 

They said they were going to adjust the stunbubbles, eventually, in some way. They havent' said anything about adjusting Anything related to lolsmash.

There is a difference. Stun bubbles are..

1. applying the incorrect amount of resolve

2. able to be activated by right clicking them in the buff bar

this is broken.

Smash is not broken, it may need an adjustment. As with all other damage/healing abilities it is being reviewed for for a major re-balance. I can understand if you're unhappy they didn't make that a priority over more cartel market additions. No reason to get defensive toward other players about it.