They are the same level, have the same gear requirements, and offer the SAME reward, yet they are no where near the same in difficulty. Rishi is doable, but still a notch up in difficulty. The first boss in Bloodhunt is very difficult for a pug, and far and away more difficult than any other boss in any of the other fp's.

What is the rationale, defense, or justification for this lack of balance? GF is a real pain to use, depending on your server and your time of day...then when you do get a pop, to see content that is so far out of balance to basically being undoable...is unacceptable. I'm sure you hardcore types snicker, but again, look at the gear requirements (178, YES, 178), the casual pug nature of the encounters, and the simple fact that these two, bloodhunt in particular, are NOT even remotely balanced with the other content that gives the SAME rewards.

It is very disappointing that after this many weeks we haven't seen a balance pass. Again, keep in mind, the recommended gear level for these is 178...178...I would LOVE to see ANY gf pug in 178 gear complete the first boss in bloodhunt. I have yet to see a group in 186/192s make it.

Oh and the 11 min or so lockout when a grp is forced to reroll because of the developers inability to balance their content weeks after release, that is also another real perk ;(

They are the same level, have the same gear requirements, and offer the SAME reward, yet they are no where near the same in difficulty. Rishi is doable, but still a notch up in difficulty. The first boss in Bloodhunt is very difficult for a pug, and far and away more difficult than any other boss in any of the other fp's.

 

What is the rationale, defense, or justification for this lack of balance? GF is a real pain to use, depending on your server and your time of day...then when you do get a pop, to see content that is so far out of balance to basically being undoable...is unacceptable. I'm sure you hardcore types snicker, but again, look at the gear requirements (178, YES, 178), the casual pug nature of the encounters, and the simple fact that these two, bloodhunt in particular, are NOT even remotely balanced with the other content that gives the SAME rewards.

 

It is very disappointing that after this many weeks we haven't seen a balance pass. Again, keep in mind, the recommended gear level for these is 178...178...I would LOVE to see ANY gf pug in 178 gear complete the first boss in bloodhunt. I have yet to see a group in 186/192s make it.

 

Oh and the 11 min or so lockout when a grp is forced to reroll because of the developers inability to balance their content weeks after release, that is also another real perk ;(

They are definitely tough no doubt. They really require a lot of coordination. It's tough. The rewards are out of whack for a lot of things to be honest. I would love for BW to reinstitute a flashpoint tier system. LI and Rakgoul were in a tier of their own, and LI even rewarded players with a raid level set bonus chest piece I think, and Rakgoul gave out a raid level headpiece. They weren't even the lowest level at the time I think. The lowest was Tionese, and those hard modes gave out Columi pieces. The gear in the 3.0 expac is truly terrible. My only explanation regarding as to why they are so worthless across the board is that they sped up the gearing process in 2.0 but it got a bit out of hand so we're kind of suffering through the slow period until things go back to a more manageable rate. I totally agree that regardless of which hard mode flashpoint we're talking about that the rewards and just awful. I actually wouldn't be opposed to seeing Rishi and Blood Hunt drop a 192 raid level piece like LI and Rakgoul used to back when we had to walk to school in 10 inches of snow yada yada yada.

This sounds exactly like the QQing going on when the Czerka HM FPs were released.

Seriously, did you just copy and paste an old post, then replace the name of the FP?

They are definitely tough no doubt. They really require a lot of coordination. It's tough. The rewards are out of whack for a lot of things to be honest. I would love for BW to reinstitute a flashpoint tier system. LI and Rakgoul were in a tier of their own, and LI even rewarded players with a raid level set bonus chest piece I think, and Rakgoul gave out a raid level headpiece. They weren't even the lowest level at the time I think. The lowest was Tionese, and those hard modes gave out Columi pieces. The gear in the 3.0 expac is truly terrible. My only explanation regarding as to why they are so worthless across the board is that they sped up the gearing process in 2.0 but it got a bit out of hand so we're kind of suffering through the slow period until things go back to a more manageable rate. I totally agree that regardless of which hard mode flashpoint we're talking about that the rewards and just awful. I actually wouldn't be opposed to seeing Rishi and Blood Hunt drop a 192 raid level piece like LI and Rakgoul used to back when we had to walk to school in 10 inches of snow yada yada yada.

this in Spades. I was around for LI's first inception, and man what a reality check. unless you vastly overgeared it, even progression people had difficulty. BUT...it was a tier 2 FP, and for good reason. I wouldn't mind one bit if the re-instituted that. they could slide BH and Rishi into a tier 2 setup, with a boost in comms overall, and keep the other 4 as "standard" HM FP's

Both time we beat first boss of blood hunt both of our dps were doing over 3.5 kdps. Show me a pug or anybody for that matter that can do it in 178 rishi gear. This fight is just not doable in a pug. Even if you get 3 raiders and one fresh 60 - you will fail, because everyone has to pull their weight to succeed in this fight.

I wish it stayed as it is though, it would be such a shame to lose this kind of fun and challenging flashpoint. The whole point of this flashpoint is to complete challenges and that theme is very strong there, and I like it.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=799882 Tuesday...

I skimmed through that, didn't see anything about toning down bloodhunt...was nice that they say they fixed rishi where it would count for the weekly, since the one time my group completed it, none of us got credit towards the weekly for it...that was a real treat. My dps in the group was in all 192's with two 198s thrown in...again far far far from 178 gear.

Also, if you look at how they toned down manaan, which is FAR FAR easier than bloodhunt, this will make bloodhunt even more out of line.

As far as the other comments in the thread...again...if they wanted to move these two into another tier, with higher requirements, higher reward, and detach them from the weekly that the others belong to...then IM FINE with that...but that isn't the case

I skimmed through that, didn't see anything about toning down bloodhunt...was nice that they say they fixed rishi where it would count for the weekly, since the one time my group completed it, none of us got credit towards the weekly for it...that was a real treat. My dps in the group was in all 192's with two 198s thrown in...again far far far from 178 gear.

 

Also, if you look at how they toned down manaan, which is FAR FAR easier than bloodhunt, this will make bloodhunt even more out of line.

 

As far as the other comments in the thread...again...if they wanted to move these two into another tier, with higher requirements, higher reward, and detach them from the weekly that the others belong to...then IM FINE with that...but that isn't the case

I don't really care either way. I still think Imos is as hard as these if not harder. It's still pretty easy mechanics to identify. The walker in rishi for example...don't stand in circles, avoid standing in cross, kill adds, get in protected zone. Granted Rishi I've done twice and cleared it twice. Once with a pug once in guild. Tython to me still is the hardest to progress through. I admit I haven't done blood hunt yet. I'll get around to it Im sure. No matter what though rishi maze gear is vender trash or whatever it is. There's even what generally the last boss that throws out a 192 comm piece? I don't even pay attention to the drops anymore cause they have no real purpose I feel. I'm not sure why it's even in the game. Throw out difficulty, my issue is with the drops. I don't see any use for what they drop primarily. I'm kind of in the corner that wouldn't mind a bridge set that goes from hard modes to raid gear in a little better of a format and basically get rid of this three tier comm armor system.

I do agree with that blood hunt first boss is hard. Hell, it is harder for me then half of bosses of new operations on hard mode.

2nd boss is a lot harder IMO. Ive pugged the first boss before. 2nd boss not so much

HM Ops difficulty in HM fp's......This is obvious to all whove spent time in either of them....and its obviously not right

They have to be moved up to a higher level of FP altogether and their gear level drops and requirement sensibly improved OR they need moving down to a sensible level.

The real annoyance with this is that the problem hasn't been seen and had something done about it ages ago to be honest.

ALSO.........

SM for pugs and very casual players

HM........those more serious and gearing up hardcorers

Nim......elite pve'rs

We are not able to get a complete unknown group of pugs 16 man through the 2 new ops in sm SO THIS IS OBVIOUSLY WRONG, when you team it up with people doing it all in general max 186 gear and no ts organisation due to being general pug on sm and often less and pugs like standing in fire to avoid harming their rotation as you know.

pve wise i don't think you're doing well, i like it to be a challenge but for an FP i dont want to have to rely on only raiding guildies to be able to get through i like the idea of healing tom, dick and even harry through it.

Thanks for the replies...this is very frustrating...yesterday, I amazingly got 3 gf pops, and EACH TIME we got bloodhunt....EACH TIME. So inspite of three pops and over an hour wasted in gf q's, I was able TO GET NOTHING DONE, nothing completed, and HAD ZERO FUN. In fact, I had a ton of annoyance, which was far less than zero fun.

Negative fun.

There is no excuse for this level of imbalance. Anyone home EAWare?

Update...first gf pop today, after another hr sitting in q...BLODDHUNT. Yeah that's random. FIX THIS YOU NOOBS. Balance this crap out

I finally did Blood Hunt today, so I understand a little bit more about it now to offer an opinion. Pugged it. We didn't clear it mainly because our tank didn't really get positioning when both Joss and Vaulk came down. We were 3 first timers of the op, and the tank had done it before but never cleared the first boss. Wiped on the first boss one time, then easily crushed him. I found a direct correlation between the dot he spews out and the success of the group. Once I realized there was a dot and got to cleansing it we rolled. I had to ultimately leave before we could beat joss and vaulk, but that seemed pretty doable too. Blood Hunt reminds me a lot of Lost Island when it first came out. It did get a nerf so this probably will at some point. But, ultimately, it's definitely doable. Just need to communicate, and be a bit more attentive.

At this stage of the game I think pug groups just need to know that this one is hard as per the title, and is going to take a few tries before it gets cleared. Definitely not a one shot HM for most groups. It just came out so I don't think that should be too surprising.

Obviously the gear suggestion is totally wrong. But yea, I'm not seeing how that first boss is so hyped as the hardest in the game. Imos is easily harder than that guy in my opinion.

Rishi: I don't think that one needs to touched. I cleared it with a dps friend who barely (and I mean barely) out dps'd the tank.

I guess my main point is if anyone gets in these make sure to communicate before and after fights.

Edit: Yeah the group finder...don't even get me started on that thing. It's not great. It needs some work. I remember recently when Tython was crushing groups, and that seemed to be the only one I could get to pop.

HM Ops difficulty in HM fp's......This is obvious to all whove spent time in either of them....and its obviously not right

 

They have to be moved up to a higher level of FP altogether and their gear level drops and requirement sensibly improved OR they need moving down to a sensible level.

 

.

I would love for Rishi and Blood Hunt to be in a Tier 2 HM level with improved drops. Aside from the group finder being an issue with me I 100 percent agree that the drops are just vendor trash. Wish the reality for HMs was a bit different.

I finally did Blood Hunt today, so I understand a little bit more about it now to offer an opinion. Pugged it. We didn't clear it mainly because our tank didn't really get positioning when both Joss and Vaulk came down. We were 3 first timers of the op, and the tank had done it before but never cleared the first boss. Wiped on the first boss one time, then easily crushed him. I found a direct correlation between the dot he spews out and the success of the group. Once I realized there was a dot and got to cleansing it we rolled. I had to ultimately leave before we could beat joss and vaulk, but that seemed pretty doable too. Blood Hunt reminds me a lot of Lost Island when it first came out. It did get a nerf so this probably will at some point. But, ultimately, it's definitely doable. Just need to communicate, and be a bit more attentive.

 

At this stage of the game I think pug groups just need to know that this one is hard as per the title, and is going to take a few tries before it gets cleared. Definitely not a one shot HM for most groups. It just came out so I don't think that should be too surprising.

 

Obviously the gear suggestion is totally wrong. But yea, I'm not seeing how that first boss is so hyped as the hardest in the game. Imos is easily harder than that guy in my opinion.

 

Rishi: I don't think that one needs to touched. I cleared it with a dps friend who barely (and I mean barely) out dps'd the tank.

 

I guess my main point is if anyone gets in these make sure to communicate before and after fights.

 

Edit: Yeah the group finder...don't even get me started on that thing. It's not great. It needs some work. I remember recently when Tython was crushing groups, and that seemed to be the only one I could get to pop.

Cleansing the DoT is nothing...the problem is the rate of spawn of the adds, their hp, and their damage (plus mechanics that require an extreme amount of movement, especially by the healer), and the overall damage int eh encounter...plus the movement required by the bosses mechanics. But if you toned down the adds AND their respawn rate (compare this with the adds in the 2nd and last manaan boss encounters to get a clue how incredibly far out of balance they are) then the boss would be remotely reasonable given a concept of balance.

Basically you are saying you did it with a pug, 3 of which had never been in the fp before, and only wiped once...I find that either INCREDIBLY lucky or total BS. With an experience, GEARED group, in a voice chat...maybe. Easily crushing him is also total bs. In the dulfy guide video, the healer doesn't even survive, but dies right at the end...they didn't have an EASY time at it, he wasn't crushed, and it sure as hell wasn't their first or second time.

Just need to communicate, and be a bit more attentive.

that is not it at all! If dps does not pull high numbers: over 3k and more while constantly moving - no amount of "communication" or "attentiveness" will help you clear first boss of blood hunt. I have had a dozen pugs that I explained the fight in great detail before the start and dps was just too low - result adds enrage every time.

So in your case you were just lucky to get good dps in a group. Which is a rarity this days.

I find that either INCREDIBLY lucky or total BS.

LOL, me too. Really struck a nerve there. We did it in a guild run, both of our dps were doing over 3.5 kdps and we still struggled. So yeah, totally crashed it lol

that is not it at all! If dps does not pull high numbers: over 3k and more while constantly moving - no amount of "communication" or "attentiveness" will help you clear first boss of blood hunt. I have had a dozen pugs that I explained the fight in great detail before the start and dps was just too low - result adds enrage every time.

So in your case you were just lucky to get good dps in a group. Which is a rarity this days.

EXACTLY the point, the adds are the main problem. You have to have incredible damage and A VERY good healer to keep up with the dps required by the adds spawn rate...and soak up ALOT of damage...and move your butt off.

This guy is claiming he pugged it in a grp where 3/4s had never done it before...and they wiped "once" then "crushed" him. That is complete BS unless they were INCREDIBLY geared and INCREDIBLY skilled, or just unreasonably lucky.

Cleansing the DoT is nothing...the problem is the rate of spawn of the adds, their hp, and their damage (plus mechanics that require an extreme amount of movement, especially by the healer), and the overall damage int eh encounter...plus the movement required by the bosses mechanics. But if you toned down the adds AND their respawn rate (compare this with the adds in the 2nd and last manaan boss encounters to get a clue how incredibly far out of balance they are) then the boss would be remotely reasonable given a concept of balance.

 

Basically you are saying you did it with a pug, 3 of which had never been in the fp before, and only wiped once...I find that either INCREDIBLY lucky or total BS. With an experience, GEARED group, in a voice chat...maybe. Easily crushing him is also total bs. In the dulfy guide video, the healer doesn't even survive, but dies right at the end...they didn't have an EASY time at it, he wasn't crushed, and it sure as hell wasn't their first or second time.

Not BS at all. We had three first timers which included myself. The tank was the only one who had previously been there outside of tactical versions. Group did break up at J and V. I was the healer. The only thing I did differently was to focus on cleaning that dot. We went right through that boss with no issues. IMaybe it is lucky. I have no idea how lucky it is or how rare it is. If it's both then I'll go get a lottery ticket. Maybe it's a sign that it's my time. It's also quite possible we were all heavily geared, and didn't panic with the tempo of that fight. I didn't inspect anyone so I couldn't tell ya. We easily crushed him on that second attempt. First attempt, death. Second attempt smoked. Joss and Vaulk different story. And, granted it may be that in future attempts I won't be lucky, and we will struggle mightily.

edit: I may be crazy, have weird ideas, and talk to much...but a liar I am not.

I do agree with that blood hunt first boss is hard. Hell, it is harder for me then half of bosses of new operations on hard mode.

say that to those that ask for achieve for the new OPs in SM

The tank was the only one who had previously been there outside of tactical versions

This is why many group fail not the difficulty

This is why many group fail not the difficulty

Are you saying tanks are too generally too inexperienced at this point? I actually think a lot of groups fail because of insufficient levels of dps, or inattentive healers (I know I can get complacent sometimes as a healer). I haven't run into many unskilled tanks lately.

Im sure there will be some retuning for blood hunt if we as a player base still struggle months down the road. They haven't touched Imos, and he was the one a lot of people struggled with. I wonder if people are doing better with him after having some time to get comfortable with his mechanics.

The tank was the only one who had previously been there outside of tactical versions

Meaning, the 2 dps and the healer only knew the tactical version, the tank was the only one with experience in HM.