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Powertech: Tanking and You


Darguth's Avatar


Darguth
01.12.2012 , 10:47 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Zerophin View Post
I find that the Riot Strike CD is acceptable and not worth investing shortening the cool down via talents. There are just way too many other useful things to spend your points on and candidly you shouldn't be the only one tasked to use interrupts. Bear in mind Cryo Grenade does the job too in a pinch.
Agreed. Stellar talent for PVP, really not essential for PVE. Either (A) you have other teammates that should also be helping with interrupts or (B) the boss typically only has 1 "absolutely must interrupt" ability that you can deal with given the standard CD on Riot Strike. I haven't run into any mobs yet that had a "must interrupt" ability that I couldn't deal with using a non-talented Riot Strike CD.

Zerophin's Avatar


Zerophin
01.12.2012 , 10:55 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
I think one thing you're greatly underestimating is that the difference between EB and Gut is not simply +1 Ammo for that damage trade-off. It's +3 Ammo because Gut costs 2. That very easily allows one to take better advantage of Static Shield procs as well as maintaining your Static Field debuff with Ion Pulse without the need to incorrectly prioritize IP over a higher threat/damage ability like SS or HIB. The additional high-damage abilities you can use with the Ammo return pretty easily make-up for the damage differential, if not completely surpass it.
You make a fair point regarding the Ammo cost; and I would certainly not advocate Gut over EB if the damage differential wasn't so large (in my opinion.) In a single target situation (more on that later) I simply do not find that spending 2 ammo for Gut every 15 seconds keeps me from using SS or HIB while maintaining regen. If I felt I was unable to SS because of Gut then obviously the math just won't work - so it bears testing. The gap here is just pretty darn wide which makes me willing to suffer the utility loss.


Quote:
Also, one should factor in the Ammo returns and how that affects multi-target threat rotations which are of a higher ratio of ammo consumption.
This is true, in AoE situations you will consume more ammo and therefore an ability like Gut will not be efficient. I'm not sure though how important this will be in the long run as most large packs are effectively "trash" that can be managed through. It's certainly something to consider.

Ultimately I think it's a trade-off which is great (I like having to pick between two compelling choices.)

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
01.12.2012 , 10:57 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Zerophin View Post
I find that the Riot Strike CD is acceptable and not worth investing shortening the cool down via talents. There are just way too many other useful things to spend your points on and candidly you shouldn't be the only one tasked to use interrupts. Bear in mind Cryo Grenade does the job too in a pinch.
You could also use a Cyro grenade.. run 10 meters back and hit Storm... pulling the target with harpoon

I agree to several parts of this

1.) your not the main interrupter just someone that has one ( you have more to do than to just focus on interrupts). Yet sometimes you have to go above and beyond and that is what being a tank is about.

2.) Riot strike cd is very good in it's current state yet at times that hard hitting skill will start going off as soon as riot strike is about to clear cd. Yet you can still interrupt that skill but it's just close at times. So I can see getting the talent to make yourself less stressed.

3.)There are better things to put your talents in. You are a tank and your main goal is to take damage and reduce the damage you take so those points could be better off in say shield chance or something.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to do what is right in the face of it.

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Darguth's Avatar


Darguth
01.12.2012 , 11:12 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Zerophin View Post
Ultimately I think it's a trade-off which is great (I like having to pick between two compelling choices.)
Agreed, in a series of trees without very many compelling or competing options it's nice that the trade-offs between these two are close enough to offer at least a reasonable choice of trade-offs.

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
01.12.2012 , 11:19 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
Agreed, in a series of trees without very many compelling or competing options it's nice that the trade-offs between these two are close enough to offer at least a reasonable choice of trade-offs.
Damage or Adaptability basically.
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Kaigen's Avatar


Kaigen
01.12.2012 , 11:28 AM | #36
I find that having Energy Blast allows me to be much more aggressive in my ability usage, especially early in a fight. In a single target situation, I'll often Storm->SS->HiB->IP and then use Energy Blast to compensate if Shield Cycler hasn't made up the difference. Once I start mixing in HS, I find I can keep SG and PC on cooldown as well as SS and HiB by managing my ammo and using EB when it's available. It's also very handy if you're in a situation where you're using Riot Strike frequently, as those off-GCD 1 ammo charges can really add up.

Likewise, in an AoE situation, I'll often do MV->Storm->ES->Smoke Grenade->PC(with a slight reposition)->SG, dropping EB at the first point where my ammo is dropping near unacceptable levels (often between PC and SG).

I do think either build is viable, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Gut build put out more dps, but for my playstyle I like having to fall back on Hammer Shot less and I like being more able to push my ammo usage so as not to waste Shield Cycler procs.

Vestras's Avatar


Vestras
01.12.2012 , 12:14 PM | #37
Thanks for the rotation tips man! These should help me out, I just need to get better about memorizing ability names rather than picture/functon
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Darguth's Avatar


Darguth
01.12.2012 , 12:46 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Escaflownae View Post
Damage or Adaptability basically.
Eh, I still don't think Gut is such a clear-cut winner on the damage front. I think the main advantages of Gut over EB is the following:
- Simpler single-target rotation to maintain.
- DOT maintains threat during periods of CC or time spent out of melee.
- DOT can be applied to multiple targets if necessary for long-term, multi-target threat.

So I'd say that Gut is easier to use and perhaps a more forgiving ability to use, whereas EB gives you increased adaptability but requires more attention to use it to its full effect.

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
01.12.2012 , 01:44 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
Eh, I still don't think Gut is such a clear-cut winner on the damage front. I think the main advantages of Gut over EB is the following:
- Simpler single-target rotation to maintain.
- DOT maintains threat during periods of CC or time spent out of melee.
- DOT can be applied to multiple targets if necessary for long-term, multi-target threat.

So I'd say that Gut is easier to use and perhaps a more forgiving ability to use, whereas EB gives you increased adaptability but requires more attention to use it to its full effect.
So in essence your saying it's like tanking with rend from a warrior but with a higher end frontal attack. Thinking about it that might actually cause more threat. Keeping a consistent DoT on the target and having the ability to throw that on others seems like a very good idea.

I'm still not that convinced of it but I will try it out here shortly.
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Darguth's Avatar


Darguth
01.12.2012 , 01:52 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Escaflownae View Post
So in essence your saying it's like tanking with rend from a warrior but with a higher end frontal attack. Thinking about it that might actually cause more threat. Keeping a consistent DoT on the target and having the ability to throw that on others seems like a very good idea.

I'm still not that convinced of it but I will try it out here shortly.
Yeah, I think Rend is a reasonable comparison. Energy Blast will give you more front-end threat at the start of the encounter and more opportunities for large applications of threat, but Gut will give you a more even distribution of threat throughout an encounter.