I am relly condused about this game.

I have played just about all the major MMOs and I dont seem to get a grip on this game.

I switched server since mine died out, only been playing to level 20, but I have the same problem: nobody wants to team up. I hate playing solo on a MMO, I have YET to have anyone accept an invitation. After a while I realized that if one does all quests, main and side, you manage to level up enough that you dont need any help to advance in the game. I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem. It is too easy, why team up. The first 10 levels where a piece of cake, the next 10 not exactly more difficult. As a tank Jedi I have died 5 times, thats it.

The next thing is that this formula is really not interesting anymore. Every MMO since WoW does the "go get that talk to this person" game style. Is this really all there is to MMO? After I have been playing WoW for 5 years I cancelled. Mainly because there is not much to do, what kept me going was the social part that is stellar in WoW.

As a single player RPG it is fantastic, but as an MMO its a been that done that. The only thing that made this game survive so far is the SW logo and lore. If it was calles Space Explorer we would have all dissed it.

Huge Bioware fan but this simply is not the right approach in my opnion: cut scenes and mix it with WoW.

The design is too simplistic and the worlds lack depth. Compare the Senate with the Ironforge for example.

I am relly condused about this game.

 

I have played just about all the major MMOs and I dont seem to get a grip on this game.

 

I switched server since mine died out, only been playing to level 20, but I have the same problem: nobody wants to team up. I hate playing solo on a MMO, I have YET to have anyone accept an invitation. After a while I realized that if one does all quests, main and side, you manage to level up enough that you dont need any help to advance in the game. I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem. It is too easy, why team up. The first 10 levels where a piece of cake, the next 10 not exactly more difficult. As a tank Jedi I have died 5 times, thats it.

 

The next thing is that this formula is really not interesting anymore. Every MMO since WoW does the "go get that talk to this person" game style. Is this really all there is to MMO? After I have been playing WoW for 5 years I cancelled. Mainly because there is not much to do, what kept me going was the social part that is stellar in WoW.

 

As a single player RPG it is fantastic, but as an MMO its a been that done that. The only thing that made this game survive so far is the SW logo and lore. If it was calles Space Explorer we would have all dissed it.

 

Huge Bioware fan but this simply is not the right approach in my opnion: cut scenes and mix it with WoW.

The design is too simplistic and the worlds lack depth. Compare the Senate with the Ironforge for example.

Seriously? You must be doing something wrong then.

Also, its a lie saying ToR is the only game you have managed to level from 1-20 in on your own...

I went from 1-85 in WoW whilst being in a group like... twice?

On my new trooper. Im level 18 now. Ive been in a group at least 3 or 4 times a game session.

There is always people looking for groups in regards to Trouble In Deed, Republic Enemies and other heroics on Coruscant.

Also, im confused as to why you are comparing Ironforge (A social hub) to the Senate (A questgiver hub that has no other point)?

Or if its due to it being the "Capital" whats your point? Personally i think that the Senate is vastly intricate and some of the best building design in MMOs. It is spectacular to look at.

Also, MMOs are designed to be played Solo and as a group.

If they make mobs so hard that you always need a group it will alienate a lot of people.

Sometimes i just want to go online and solo for a bit.

TBH im confused at what you are moaning about.

Is this another rant about how ToR is too much like a WoW Clone?

How this game is too easy?

How the worlds are empty?

I realise its an, IMO, Unfounded rant but you seem to be collecting everyone elses rants and consolidating them into one easy rant.

I am relly condused about this game.

 

I have played just about all the major MMOs and I dont seem to get a grip on this game.

 

I switched server since mine died out, only been playing to level 20, but I have the same problem: nobody wants to team up. I hate playing solo on a MMO, I have YET to have anyone accept an invitation. After a while I realized that if one does all quests, main and side, you manage to level up enough that you dont need any help to advance in the game. I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem. It is too easy, why team up. The first 10 levels where a piece of cake, the next 10 not exactly more difficult. As a tank Jedi I have died 5 times, thats it.

 

The next thing is that this formula is really not interesting anymore. Every MMO since WoW does the "go get that talk to this person" game style. Is this really all there is to MMO? After I have been playing WoW for 5 years I cancelled. Mainly because there is not much to do, what kept me going was the social part that is stellar in WoW.

 

As a single player RPG it is fantastic, but as an MMO its a been that done that. The only thing that made this game survive so far is the SW logo and lore. If it was calles Space Explorer we would have all dissed it.

 

Huge Bioware fan but this simply is not the right approach in my opnion: cut scenes and mix it with WoW.

The design is too simplistic and the worlds lack depth. Compare the Senate with the Ironforge for example.

World of Warcraft is, much, much, much, much, much more easier than this game. I've played it since 2007, so trust me. I know. Every MMO have about the same difficulty on it's leveling content, so I don't see what you fuss about. You don't really need to group up in any MMO in order to level up.

Personally, I don't see how you can call yourself a Bioware fan, and then claim that RPG has no place in an MMO. I'm tired of all grind MMO:s where I've got no means to influence my personal story, no conversation and no connection to my character. There's plenty of MMOs without the RPG out there, why not choose one of them?

World of Warcraft is, much, much, much, much, much more easier than this game. I've played it since 2007, so trust me. I know. Every MMO has about the same difficulty on it's leveling content, so I don't see what you fuss about. You don't really need to group up in any MMO in order to level up.

 

Personally, I don't see how you can call yourself a Bioware fan, and then claim that RPG has no place in an MMO. I'm tired of all grind MMO:s where I've got no means to influence my personal story, no conversation and no connection to my character. There's plenty of those MMO:s out there, why not choose one of them?

yup, since WOW hit the market the MMORPGs got dumbed down and are easy mode!

Its funny when I read WOW players talking about how hard WOW was.

Talk about lowering the bar to unseen depths.

WOW at release was refered to as

A MMO on training wheels

OP, TOR is the WOW model of design!

SOLO play with the odd grouping for specific content and then when you hit max level you go gear hunting so you can see the higher difficulty items.

Gear has replaced skill in MMOs and thats ALL on WOW for the blame. It was not like that before WOW. Yes here was better gear but it was not required, it was a bonus that helped you rather then mandatory or you die.

Modern Day (again WOW and later) MMORPGs really set up games like Battlenet really

The leveling content is the lobby that you sit in allone and when your ready to group you send out the call so a PUG can join togather, do a single adventure and then go back to sitting in lobby till next time.

And this design is whats killing the genre btw!

If your expecting to get groups while leveling, you can try a guild or 2 but from what I seen its solo to 50 (with few heroics of flashpoints added in) and then the social player begins kinda.

I switched server since mine died out, only been playing to level 20, but I have the same problem: nobody wants to team up. I hate playing solo on a MMO, I have YET to have anyone accept an invitation. After a while I realized that if one does all quests, main and side, you manage to level up enough that you don’t need any help to advance in the game. I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem. It is too easy, why team up. The first 10 levels where a piece of cake, the next 10 not exactly more difficult. As a tank Jedi I have died 5 times, that’s it.

Soloing 1-20 is the model for MMOs now and has been for a sometime. I don’t really mind it and I don’t think you do either.

The next thing is that this formula is really not interesting anymore. Every MMO since WoW does the "go get that talk to this person" game style. Is this really all there is to MMO? After I have been playing WoW for 5 years I cancelled. Mainly because there is not much to do, what kept me going was the social part that is stellar in WoW.

This is the first time I have ever heard anyone describe the social part of WoW as stellar. The typical gripe I heard about WoW was that the community sucked, which it did and still does. And you can solo in WoW all the way to 85. And that was the way it always was in WoW. Back when the cap was 60 one could play all the way to 60 and NEVER group once and in fact for most of the game you don't group.

As a single player RPG it is fantastic, but as an MMO it’s a been that done that. The only thing that made this game survive so far is the SW logo and lore. If it was called Space Explorer we would have all dissed it.

You played an MMO for five years. Do think that maybe you’re just done with the Genre? Your right there isn’t much original in SWTOR, but then again there wasn’t much original in WoW either, and MMOs are pretty much the same thing. Do this, do that to get this and get that and advance your character.

Huge Bioware fan but this simply is not the right approach in my opinion: cut scenes and mix it with WoW. The design is too simplistic and the worlds lack depth. Compare the Senate with the Ironforge for example.

What is the Senate? And Ironforge was/is a place I avoided like the plague because it was horrible. It was nothing more than a lag fest full of juvenile banter. Other then engaging in juvenile babbling in chat and housekeeping activities (AH, bank, etc) there wasn’t anything to do there.

I am really confused about this game.

I don’t think you are. You don’t like the game and it bores you, unsubscribe and move on or go back to WoW, but you don’t want to do that because you are tire of WoW. I think you got your MMO cherry busted on WoW and that is and will be MMOs for you. That is fine, I got mine busted on EQ, and EQ is what MMOs are to me. And every single MMO I have played since has paled in comparison to that first experience.

Gear has replaced skill in MMOs and thats ALL on WOW for the blame. It was not like that before WOW. Yes here was better gear but it was not required, it was a bonus that helped you rather then mandatory or you die.

In what game, did this Nirvana exist? Gear has always "replaced" "skill" in MMOs. It takes no skill to reach the highest levels of any MMOs, never has, all it takes is time.

I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem.

After I have been playing WoW for 5 years...

*Cough*

Personally, I don't see how you can call yourself a Bioware fan, and then claim that RPG has no place in an MMO. I'm tired of all grind MMO:s where I've got no means to influence my personal story, no conversation and no connection to my character. There's plenty of MMOs without the RPG out there, why not choose one of them?

Agreed.

an game that calls itself mmorpg should include all the aspects tied to it.

and this means more than a persistent world and 15 bucks a month.

yes rpg is a must (that means progression) but tor has somewhat predefined story (everyone has the same)

whereas traditional mmo's you could make up your own.

and now to the massive part. massive battles pvp and pve should be included. if I wanted small scale pvp I'd just fire up quake. you can call it zerg all you like, massive should mean the possibility to team up with massive amounts of players to 1) bring down the dragon 2) storm the castle (metaphorically speaking)

In what game, did this Nirvana exist? Gear has always "replaced" "skill" in MMOs. It takes no skill to reach the highest levels of any MMOs, never has, all it takes is time.

Very much agreed.

There's no 'skill' in any MMO or atleast the PvE portions. You're playing against a set number of fixed variables. In order to be successful you need to learn fight mechanics and farm the necessary gear, both of these takes time but neither takes skill.

The only difference between EQ vs WoW vs Swtor is time. EQ it took months to years to reach max level, in WoW it took weeks, and in Swtor it takes 4 days.

It is a difficult question to answer.

To my experience there are 3 or 4 directions MMOs are headed nowadays.

There is the usual wow/swtor style ones. Good old things with levels, raids, instances etc.Then there are the ones with full loot and sandboxy environment (these are usually made by small companies and they are struggling for some funds, devs,players).

Then there are some new types of MMos with no levels and a lot of skills/ skill boxes to learn.

And the there are the good old grind a lot ones.

None of these are going to survive in my oppinion. For different reasons.

To design a successful and new gen MMO you would need large, open spaces, players to create everything from food, to weapons. These players or items should be dependant from each other, making all the professions needful.

Levels are not really needed. they are a kind of time sink anyways. A lot of peopleget bored while leveling and quite often these players do not even reach max level to test the so called end game content. I still think that the good old swg skill tree system is the best so far. So, something similar would be needed.

Player interaction is also very important in an mmo. You should be able to have your own houses, villages, towns, etc. With the possibility to decorate these cities with statues, fountains, gardens etc. Living and creating a village and growing it to a town can create communities and they are veryvery important in a game. Sometimes you only log in to have a chat with friends and not for going on a raid.

The crafters should also be very important. I mean their skills and dedication. Spending more time with crafting and using the best materials available should have an effect on the produced item. These reciőpe crafting systems are not that interesting. You need to get a few things and then everybody crafts the same stuff. Why? There should be a way to improve/experiment things to make them better. Crafting should be something like a mini-game instead of dropping things from the inventory into a magic things and click the produce button and then take the stuff out of the box.

merchants/trade should also play an important role. There should be trade routes, caravans, local vendors, markets around the world. If you have a map some parts should be rich in something but very very poor in a different material. this way you would be forced to trade. It should, of course, be very well thought to avoid exploits or other issues.

Pvp. World pvp is very important. You need to give a reason, a goal for the players to go pvp. They should be able to capture, control areas. They could also tax ppl in the are they control. But for the tax, they should also have to protect their markets/trade routes etc.

Sandbox. Players should be able to create quests/missions for others. These games should only have some basic rules and the rest of everything should depend on the players.

These things I have mentioned here are not new. tehy have been around for a while but for some reason all the big companies think that they will take a working recipe instead of investing in something new. But they forget one things. most of the people are a bit bored with the same type games. Its just the costume that changes and everything else is the same.

Players. They should grow up a bit. They want everything and they want it now. We should re-learn or re-experience the joys of getting something that is really unique. Most of them want to travel from a to b in a second, would find a group without doing anything for it but clicking a button. I find that pretty boring.

One last thing. A new toon in a world shouldnt be too much weaker than an old one. experience and the player skill are the things that should matter.

These are my thoughts on this subject.

The main thing that has happened with MMO's is that people do stuff to progress instead of having fun. Sure it can be fun to progress and manage a Hardmode Raid but the fun social aspect of MMO's died with WOW.

Very few see the point of doing massive PVP battles as it doesn't give you anything, you don't run a Flashpoint for the 5th time because it's fun, you do it because it drops those legs you want.

You hardly have any faction contested mobs as the game don't want us to PVP. The only fun area while levelling is the Czerka cave on Tatooine.

You can't go out and kill Jawas for a week so the sand people start liking you and wants to trade and you cant kill sand people for a week so the Jawas will trade. People call this grinding but I say it's more fun and less grindy as it actually changes the world you play in then doing dailies and flashpoints.

They could have had so much going for them and have level 50's spread across all planets after Dromund Kaas and Coruscant which would also generate tension and pvp and everyone could have their own set purpose in the world.

Gear grind ruins mmo's nothing more nothing less.

I have never played an MMO where I have managed to play to level 20 solo without a problem.

Really? I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years and I've soloed in all of them and hardly ever die. Maybe what you say is true if you're playing Korean grinders, but I don't find leveling solo in this game any easier or harder than any other Western MMO.

the game don't want us to PVP. The only fun area while levelling is the Czerka cave on Tatooine.

I totally agree here and I find tatooine is the only planet where this is done right. all other planets where opposing factions aren't led to another are flawed by design.

I knew the responses would label me asa hater, no worries forget my post, i wont be reading this again, I love this game, never mind.

Well.... if you can't take the heat, don't start the fire.

The OP is right in that there's no point in teaming if you want to follow the storyline content and still have reasonably challenging gameplay. The team content (FPs, PvP, etc.) feels peripheral and, if you're doing it to level up, can feel even more repetitive than the PvE content.

Unfortunately, I've only seen one MMO that supports teaming while running "mainline" leveling content, but it relies heavily on instances and procedurally generated maps to do so - neither of which is exactly a player favorite. I haven't seen anyone successfully create "open world" content that supports teaming without making things nearly impossible for solo players.

Really? I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years and I've soloed in all of them and hardly ever die. Maybe what you say is true if you're playing Korean grinders, but I don't find leveling solo in this game any easier or harder than any other Western MMO.

It is very easy to solo all the way to level 50 in TOR and do the main char story line quests to the end. I did and if I can, anyone can. However, in Vanilla days of WoW, you could not solo the class quests. Some steps, yeah. But not the whole quest line to the end.

What is the Senate? And Ironforge was/is a place I avoided like the plague because it was horrible. It was nothing more than a lag fest full of juvenile banter. Other then engaging in juvenile babbling in chat and housekeeping activities (AH, bank, etc) there wasn’t anything to do there.

And for juvenile babbling and housekeeping we have Fleet.

But as far as grouping goes I have done much more recently while levelling in the form of the Heroics. My Gunslinger has done Trouble in Deed, the Face Merchants, Enemies of the Republic and Fall of the Locust so far which is about as many in 19 levels as my toon levelled on the old low pop server did all the way to 50.

But yes I don't accept blind invites.

OP - are you using the group finder to find teammates for the lower level content? I use it on my alts and it's great for finding others that are questing on the same planets as me, or for flashpoints.

Regarding the solo-aspect of the game. It does seem more and more MMO's are incoporating more solo content into the genre. Whether this is good or bad is up to interpretation - everyone has their own opinion on it.

Personally I enjoy content that requires teamwork, so if the MMO genre heads further in the solo direction I may re-subscribe to one of the older games that fit my style more... or worse... give up MMO's altogether in favor of online console games.

I don't think the amount of ease/solo content is inherently bad... I just don't prefer it so it's not very desirable to me. I can understand why many people enjoy their solo content though.

I've been playing various MMO's since Ultima Online first came out and have soloed in every single one of them. I've also played in groups numerous times, but I've been able to solo to at least level 20 in every game that actually had levels.

There are plenty of ways to find groups in SWTOR. The new group finder is one of them. Also, unless you have decided to remain on a dead server, general chat is full of people forming groups on every planet I've visited. Join up with one of those, or form your own group. There are also the PvP warzones. Those are always in a group. I've probably grouped with other people every day because of those.

Also as others have mentioned, if you're just blind inviting, then no wonder people wouldn't be accepting your requests. Many of us find blind invites to be rude and will decline them even if we would ordinarily agree to be in a group when actually *asked* first. There is almost nothing I hate more than going about my business and then having some nitwit I don't know rudely pop a box up in front of my face. I had group invites on auto-decline until I'd keep forgetting to turn it off before planned invites.

Very much agreed.

 

There's no 'skill' in any MMO or atleast the PvE portions. You're playing against a set number of fixed variables. In order to be successful you need to learn fight mechanics and farm the necessary gear, both of these takes time but neither takes skill.

 

The only difference between EQ vs WoW vs Swtor is time. EQ it took months to years to reach max level, in WoW it took weeks, and in Swtor it takes 4 days.

There are plenty of MMO's that require "skill", or the gaming equivalent of skill. There is none required for PvE in TOR. Every MOB fights exactly the same, there is NO AI! No MOB ever does anything other than unload it's attacks on you. There were more tactics involved in EQ's newbie zones than are required in TOR's epic questline fights (at least up to level 30, after that, I don't know). There are a few rare instances of a patroller that you need to watch for but other than that, MOB's are just bags of experience that you run up to, hit a couple of keys and collect the bag. The real definition of a "grind" isn't how many MOB's it takes to level, or how much time, it is how grindingly boring that process is. When there is no challenge, or thought required, killing 5 MOB's is more "grindy" than killing 1000 that require thought to kill.

TOR does not hold a candle to EQ in regards to challenge. That's not entirely a negative, as EQ could be much more challenging than was "fun". The truly sad part is that it doesn't hold a candle, challenge-wise, to other simple games like City of Heroes.

Up till TOR, I have never played any game, MMO or solo where any piece of gear was ever "required". In general, any gear appropriate for your level was perfectly fine. The choice of what to wear or wield always came down to "Do I want to look cool or do I want to do an extra 0.0005% damage?".

This is not meant to pan TOR, just to point out that it is unique in its ultra-simplicity and that the simplicity is severely affecting it's ability to retain customers.