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Light sided Sith


MouseNoFour

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my LS sith warrior is definitely out to sabotage the empire. he does think the jedi are weak-minded fools, but he thinks the siths as a whole are just as stupid. he'd just like to become emperor himself and then be a bit more 'reasonable'.

he also loves being cocky, has killed a traitor or two, and likes to slap people around.

 

he's bloody insane.

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Bane's knowledge of this era is going to be inherently flawed because of the fairly vast amount of time between now and then. So anything he says is subject to his own opinion and point of view. Nothing he says can be taken as objective truth unless it's backed up by some other objective source.

 

Because it's clear from what Obi-Wan said, that many of the truths in Star Wars is based on one's own point of view.

 

 

 

Don't bother, because any example that doesn't fit into his PoV doesn't count... Just like this game doesn't count, or any other example that proves him wrong. The thread on crystal colors is a prime example of this, every single case that was brought up to prove that alignment restrictions were contrary to lore, he simply dismissed out of hand, claiming they didn't count, or were such a rare case that it still shouldn't be allowed.

 

He has clearly in his own mind decided that he and he alone is the ultimate authority on lore, so there is simply no point in debating with him.

 

Again, you fundamentally did not contribute to the debate what so ever. Lets look at the facts, who has provided examples? Me. Who hasn't? You. You keep trying to insert yourself into the debate as if you anyone cares what your opinion is. You havent even bothered to reply to me anymore, demonstrating that you clearly recognize that your own opinion is worthless (and that's truly all that you've provided).

 

And you're trying to dismiss Bane? All that shows is that you have no knowledge of lore to begin with. If youre going to dismiss him then you might as well just bring in arguments from star trek.

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1. I'm not debating Drew's credibility as a writer. I'm debating Darth Bane's authority as the be-all end-all of Dark Side knowledge.

 

2. So now this game just doesn't count? Nice.

 

3. I could bring up any number of other examples. The poisoning of the rebel slaves on Dromund Kaas. Killing the resistance leader on Balmorra vs. getting him to rat out the Republic. Killing Master Timmns. Killing the Selonians vs using them for slave labor.

 

For every one Dark Side option that improves the Empires chances of winning the war, there are five LS options to the same effect.

 

4. Sidious was so evil, he inadvertently caused the destruction of his own Empire.

 

I'd say that's pretty pertinent to the topic at hand.

 

5. The alternative of even attempting to try anything else. NOT becoming a Jedi.

 

6. Not to match characters here, but i'd say my own Marauder would be more then a quick bout for your own.

 

7. It has become pretty clear that this is going nowhere fast.

 

8. I'll end with this: In every incarnation of the Sith Empire, we have never been able to permanently defeat the Jedi and Republic as we are. We have been destroyed by out own pride, arrogance, and hubris every time. Every. Single. Time. We need to change.

 

1. He's not the "be-all-end-all" but Drew's authority far surpasses either of ours. Referencing Bane is the same as referencing an expert authority.

 

2. Im not sure if my arguments are going over your head or if youre just choosing to respond to certain aspects of them. Look at wookieepedia's summary of the lore in this game, the only thing that is accounted for his the background info and the general scheme of the story quests. NOT INDIVIDUAL CHOICES. Hell, the most important characters are referred to as "jedi knight" and "sith inquisitor." Really, what kind of lore is that? For the love of god please tell me you see the difference between that and the Darth Bane series.

 

3. We're not debating that. Haven't I already stated that light sith serve a purpose?

 

4. No, again you make me think that i've wasted my time talking to you. Sidious would have DESTROYED luke and all his light side power had it not been for darth vader. Sure, you can argue that luke was brand new to the force and sidious had been trained in the dark side for a long period of time. No matter what, SIdious made a weak decision in Vader as an apprentice.

 

5. Anything else would have been insufficient.

 

6. Feel free to join my server, level a marauder, and duel me.

 

7. I never expected anything more than what Hampshire would call a "shabby compromise."

 

As i said before, Light Sith are useful as pawns to promote the agenda of the empire, but they will never be as powerful as dark sith and thus will never be as potent against the jedi.

 

In response to your conclusion, I am more than willing to open up a thread discussin the merits of the rule of two and the pre ruusan order.

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My neutral Inquisitor is sort of let's say, superficially insane. All the snark, all the trolling, all the laughter, but puts every decision in appropriate context. Gain a new ally by not torturing a puppy? Yes

Lightning to the face because they're avoiding the question and hiding something? Oh yes

 

As stated earlier in this thread, most sith would agree that Machiavellian choices are neither dark or light. It's just the practical thing to do.

 

EDIT

 

And im not referring to the second point. Torture qualifies as a dark side option :p

Edited by DarthPunitor
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my LS sith warrior is definitely out to sabotage the empire. he does think the jedi are weak-minded fools, but he thinks the siths as a whole are just as stupid. he'd just like to become emperor himself and then be a bit more 'reasonable'.

he also loves being cocky, has killed a traitor or two, and likes to slap people around.

 

he's bloody insane.

 

your warrior should meet my inquisitor, he is exactly the same way aside from sabotage, he is a reformer, but is very prideful. although is is a little liberal with force lightning. and a little insane

after having his trusted master betray him and having ghosts in his head that tried to kill him

but he's mostly good :)

 

on a side note, have any LS inquisitors gotten Darth Occulus? i got Imperius and idk if it's glitched or not

Edited by Froogleseven
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  • 9 months later...
For my light-sided Sith Inquisitor, it has nothing to do with good or evil. Rather, he's more of an honorable warrior type of character (as opposed to the greedy, betraying, power-hungry stereotype). He makes rational, reasonable choices that benefit the Empire or would benefit himself in the future (why kill someone and waste a potential resource when you could recruit them to your side?) To the Sith that challenge him, he has no issue with defeating them in battle, though he would usually prefer to spare them after proving his own strength. As for the Jedi and the Republic, they all die (with a few exceptions) as they are all threats to the Empire.

 

So yeah, Light V and not a traitor.

 

I KNOW RIGHT?

 

God, and sith pride themselves on being pragmatic, Hell naw.

 

 

Jedi is stupid, emotions fuel us, the Sith are self centered and with misplaced anger.

 

The star cabal should have won.

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Light side choices make more since in some ways, as such my Sith always ended up more light than dark, unless I pick just for DS or LS points in game. As for Sith VS Jedi it comes down to this IMO Sith have feelings and Jedi are boring lumps of unfeeling stone.

 

As for Light and Dark we never been told what the force is or how it works, all we are told about is belief system. I believe the force don't really care if your light, dark, grey or a rainbow (some groups in Star Wars universe think its coloured) nor do the types of powers used.

Edited by Kotli
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Light side choices make more since in some ways, as such my Sith always ended up more light than dark, unless I pick just for DS or LS points in game. As for Sith VS Jedi it comes down to this IMO Sith have feelings and Jedi are boring lumps of unfeeling stone.

 

As for Light and Dark we never been told what the force is or how it works, all we are told about is belief system. I believe the force don't really care if your light, dark, grey or a rainbow (some groups in Star Wars universe think its coloured) nor do the types of powers used.

 

To be fair, the Sith think love is a joke. SI may have feelings, but they still teach you certain feelings are weak. When they say Passion, they mean anger, the search for power, causing fear in others. Love for the sake of love is considered a weakness.

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To be fair, the Sith think love is a joke. SI may have feelings, but they still teach you certain feelings are weak. When they say Passion, they mean anger, the search for power, causing fear in others. Love for the sake of love is considered a weakness.

 

I think part of the issue is that the Jedi and Sith are so utterly polarized.

 

When Force use first arose on Tython, those who practiced it maintain a careful balance, because the planet was so charged that an imbalance, light or dark, would cause huge Force storms.

 

Then someone from the Infinite Empire showed up. And Force Wars. And... well, there's a reason why Tython never manages to maintain a permanent population.

 

In the time of the Cold War, Jedi and Sith are severely polarized. Your choices are to purge all emotion and sever all ties, relationships and attachments, with the ideal to become some detached monk that would have the most severe isolationist sects of today's world saying 'Dude... you need to chill a bit', or become a hate-fueled rage machine, kill all of your ties, relationships and attachments so that they can't be used against you, or at least be sure to betray them before they betray you, and basically become a narcissistic animal, with the ideal to become a galaxy-devouring eldrich abomination.

 

No wonder after millenia of this sort of extremism, the Force's gag reflex kicked in, and it spawned the Chosen One who handily wiped out BOTH sides, and left the Force users to rebuild without all the traditionalist baggage.

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I think part of the issue is that the Jedi and Sith are so utterly polarized.

 

When Force use first arose on Tython, those who practiced it maintain a careful balance, because the planet was so charged that an imbalance, light or dark, would cause huge Force storms.

 

Then someone from the Infinite Empire showed up. And Force Wars. And... well, there's a reason why Tython never manages to maintain a permanent population.

 

In the time of the Cold War, Jedi and Sith are severely polarized. Your choices are to purge all emotion and sever all ties, relationships and attachments, with the ideal to become some detached monk that would have the most severe isolationist sects of today's world saying 'Dude... you need to chill a bit', or become a hate-fueled rage machine, kill all of your ties, relationships and attachments so that they can't be used against you, or at least be sure to betray them before they betray you, and basically become a narcissistic animal, with the ideal to become a galaxy-devouring eldrich abomination.

 

No wonder after millenia of this sort of extremism, the Force's gag reflex kicked in, and it spawned the Chosen One who handily wiped out BOTH sides, and left the Force users to rebuild without all the traditionalist baggage.

 

Which is part of the reason I wish they went the route of after RotJ timeline, instead of TOR.

 

Not only do we lose out on being able to have items they consider "not in this timeline" but we get stuck with two complete opposites on Force Use.

 

If this happened after RotJ, we could have both those sides and still have a much better balanced force user.

 

Yes, you can play that in TOR, but it doesn't quite work out as well imo, with the storyline quests and all. And you can RP your character is trying to bring balance to the force, but you know that's a lost battle.

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To be fair, the Sith think love is a joke. SI may have feelings, but they still teach you certain feelings are weak. When they say Passion, they mean anger, the search for power, causing fear in others. Love for the sake of love is considered a weakness.

 

This isn't entirely true. It may be common, but we see very powerful sith demonstrating or referencing love without shame.

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Maybe my bias comes from having played light side Pubs, but there is no way I can imagine playing a light side Sith. Just the condecending voice and seemingly phony words of my light side Jedi Consular have forever turned me from playing that role again, either with a Pub or a Sith. Dark side rules!
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I hope a LS Sith eventually makes its way into SW canon. There's an added dynamic that LS Sith possess that DS Sith and Jedi do not.

 

LS Sith feel more like a balance with the force. Sure, they still kill others, but in the SW universe, that's going to happen with anyside of the line.

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What is the point in having LSPs when being sith? I understand bounty hunters and agents, these guys could go any way. But the ultimate purpose of the one being Sith is to gain power by any means necessary. Do i need this? I take it. Is he more powerful? I'll manipulate and deceive him and take what's his to gain advantage.

Every sith would only look to his own advantage and would not give a damn about the good of Empire. They are bound to serve the Empire because there's somebody stronger than them in the seat of power.

I mean was Palpatine looking for a good of the Empire or was he merely looking after his own well being by destroying all opposition by any means necessary?

 

So the only LS choices a sith could make would be those which would temporarily benefit him/her in the clash with others. I would assume that these LS choices when observed from this point of view are not LS at all.

 

So having said that I would say that it should be impossible for sith to embrace a good side unless his mind is wiped clean as in Revan's case.

 

So all you LS lovers, you should transfer to republic and the server balance would be restored and you can eat my smashes in pvp any day :)

You are disgrace of the Sith idea!!!!

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But the ultimate purpose of the one being Sith is to gain power by any means necessary. Do i need this? I take it. Is he more powerful? I'll manipulate and deceive him and take what's his to gain advantage.

Every sith would only look to his own advantage and would not give a damn about the good of Empire.

I'm curious what kind of power you think the Sith will have in the event their constant, reckless self ambition and internal struggles cause the Empire to collapse, as it's currently on the way to doing. Power structures with no pragmatism don't last very long.

 

There's a line from a Warcraft character I've generally found apt for these kinds of discussions. Dismiss it on the basis of it's source if you will: "Those who lead through fear only stay in power while those they govern lack courage".

Edited by Bleeters
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I'm curious what kind of power you think the Sith will have in the event their constant, reckless self ambition and internal struggles cause the Empire to collapse, as it's currently on the way to doing. Power structures with no pragmatism don't last very long.

 

There's a line from a Warcraft character I've generally found apt for these kinds of discussions. Dismiss it on the basis of it's source if you will: "Those who lead through fear only stay in power while those they govern lack courage".

 

Precisely, no one ever said that the empire is eternal. In my view the structure of the empire is only good for each and every sith if he/she is at the peak of its power (emperor) or on the way to get there. What happens with that structure after death of said individual is irrelevant (at least from his/her perspective). To be a good sith would mean to build up on the idea of the empire (serving others) instead of fueling personal gains. That is as far as I see it impossible when taking the sith code into account.

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oh boy, i keep telling people that light side sith actually do a better job for the empire, but they are like: nooooooooo you are a traitor for not killing 3000 possible assets for the empire not counting valuable intel on the enemy.

 

That thinking will ruin the empire one day.

 

....and light side warrior storyline is much more interesting from my point of view :)

 

I made quite a few LS choices on my Dark V sorc during leveling. I think I ended up being Dark IV. Can't recall. In any case I ended up just grinding FPs to get to Dark V :) So I guess I'm into the Dark Side, but I can do what's best for the Empire, too, in a pinch. I'M A RESPONSIBLE ADULT I SWEAR

 

Canonically, though, you can see why the Empire can't actually beat the Republic. We're too busy undermining the **** out of each other :p

Edited by Beslley
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Precisely, no one ever said that the empire is eternal. In my view the structure of the empire is only good for each and every sith if he/she is at the peak of its power (emperor) or on the way to get there. What happens with that structure after death of said individual is irrelevant (at least from his/her perspective). To be a good sith would mean to build up on the idea of the empire (serving others) instead of fueling personal gains. That is as far as I see it impossible when taking the sith code into account.

That's sort of besides the point.

 

I'm not saying 'what happens to the Empire after Sith X dies'. I'm saying that whilst they're still alive, the Empire runs a considerably higher risk of outright collapsing when those at the top are a bunch of self serving, power craving *******es, and once it does collapse, they cease having any power anyway. The ToR period timeline is already fracturing and weakened, largely due to power plays of the greedy and ambitious. I'd wager they'd have already won if not for that.

 

Besides which, dark sided options have a tendancy of just killing potential allies and assets because reasons. Dark sided Sith get no Voss mystics for example, because they massacre them on Ilum. Guess who does? Light siders. I know who I'd say is the more powerful for their decision.

Edited by Bleeters
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Light sided Sith could simply view the Empire as the only real way to have stability in the galaxy. I imagine that they would view the detachment practiced by the Jedi as counter-productive. How can one profess to guard and value anything, when they cherish nothing?

 

Light sided Sith would probably use righteous anger and justified hatred to, in their minds, do far more to protect the people of the Empire than the droid-like emotionless nonsense of the Jedi serving the corrupt republic.

 

There's far more to emotion than just hate and anger. Rather than being driven by ambition for power, a Sith could put his or her life on the line for the sake of brotherly love for his her her fellow citizen of the empire. At that point, seeking power is more just a means to an end and they would view their assuming leadership not as a right or privilege, but as a sacred duty.

 

Ditto. The LS play-through for the Sith Warrior arc is the only rout that--at least to me--seemed to be able to consistently justify my character's philosophy, granted I don't really RP. I was surprised, honestly. Several confrontations within the LS SW story arc definitely give you a moral and rational high ground over the Jedi and their Order (the Sith as well, needless to mention). I'm no expert on Star Wars lore, but the LS SW would probably be something comparable to an Imperial Knight (Fel Empire post 44 ABY). Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Ditto. The LS play-through for the Sith Warrior arc is the only rout that--at least to me--seemed to be able to consistently justify my character's philosophy, granted I don't really RP. I was surprised, honestly. Several confrontations within the LS SW story arc definitely give you a moral and rational high ground over the Jedi and their Order (the Sith as well, needless to mention). I'm no expert on Star Wars lore, but the LS SW would probably be something comparable to an Imperial Knight (Fel Empire post 44 ABY). Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Part of me almost wishes that Bioware would make a leap, and have an event that splits the TOR universe off from the Star Wars mainline, altering the inevitable Sith Empire collapse, deposing Vitatae for a less 'Cartoony Supervillain' Emperor, and basically altering the path of development.

 

Some secret project of Palpatine's to send a message into the past should he fall, or something.

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Part of me almost wishes that Bioware would make a leap, and have an event that splits the TOR universe off from the Star Wars mainline, altering the inevitable Sith Empire collapse, deposing Vitatae for a less 'Cartoony Supervillain' Emperor, and basically altering the path of development.

 

Some secret project of Palpatine's to send a message into the past should he fall, or something.

 

So you want BW to upset the Star Wars fans, as Star Trek did with the last movie? o.O

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