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Thoughts on how to reanimate Team Ranked PvP


rolandps

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It doesn't pretend to be a mechanism which separates the riff raff from the skilled.

 

For all its worth, with the current ELO system, a high ELO does indicate skill (or cheating). What you propose would just take all meaning from the tiers.

 

I do not believe this makes sense. If you agree that the current system indicates the best as well as the best cheaters, then exactly what does it prove having top ranked rewards? You either cheated, or you are ultra skilled. Nothing differentiates which it is.

 

As for meaning from the tiers, as it stands there's no meaning to the tiers anyway because of exactly what I explained above.

 

The ranked scene is small enough people know who are best, and who cheat. No reward or tag proves this... What happens now is because the cheating and toxicity is so bad ranked repels many players from even trying it.

 

Why partake in a system that as you admit only rewards the ultra skilled or best cheaters... but no one in between? Most people want no part of that. People would put in time and play ranked if they knew the system wasn't getting gamed, and their matches were not filled with cheating scumbags who dictate their ELO.

 

Last year I played ranked for a week. I began keeping track of who dropped my matches by name, and also kept track of how many matches had someone leave it, whether it was my team or the other. I kid you not, over half of the matches I was in had someone drop match either before it began, or halfway. I had so many 3v4 matches I stopped after a week of this *****how.

 

Anyway. It's fun to discuss and think on, but I suspect sadly BW won't change it anyway and honestly I stopped playing so whether or not they improve ranked most likely will have no impact on me. I just think what has been proven is the old ELO system is easily corruptible and only rewards the best scumbag cheaters as well as the ultra skilled.

 

I mostly speak from a solo ranked perspective, I never did team ranked and think that TR has a slightly better meta, at least it did in years past when the population was higher and many teams participated. I also think TR is less likely to have win trades/quitters unless entire groups coordinate with one another to do it. Solo ranked is much easier to cheat in at least from my perspective. Being throw on teams with strangers makes it easier for a couple people to win trade or throw matches.

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How would people cheat a wins/losses point system, if a certain amount of points would be required for rewards? I don't see any way people could cheat. What it would do is bring more people to the competition too.

 

In such a case you can que nonstop and even if you lose you will gain those 2 points. This might even encourage noobs to que since even for a loss they get points and eventually they will have enough points for rewards. The mafia would use this just as they have with mat farmers in group ranked.

 

Right now, ranked is notorious for having a small population of toxic, cheating scumbags. Remove the ability to cheat, and well, at least you then have a fair system that everyone has a chance to win in who are willing to put in a little bit of time.

 

The population for ranked is so small that if they would bann all the cheaters ranked wouldnt pop.

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The population for ranked is so small that if they would bann all the cheaters ranked wouldnt pop.

 

This is an exaggeration, at least for solos on star forge. The vast majority of matches are totally legit. Even leavers were very rare. As has been discussed in other threads, most of the illegitimate behavior comes from forced pops during off hours.

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This is an exaggeration, at least for solos on star forge. The vast majority of matches are totally legit. Even leavers were very rare. As has been discussed in other threads, most of the illegitimate behavior comes from forced pops during off hours.

 

I did ranked solo in 2018, and my experience on SF was awful. Over half the matches had quitters before the match began, or during it. My rating depended on my teammates far too much in such a unstable meta it simply wasn't worth the frustration for me. I began writing down who quit and then tallied up the match numbers over half my matches were 3v4s or had quitters once the match started. Total garbage. So, either it suddenly has improved, or I just had uncanny string of bad luck for a week getting stuck on teams with trader-quitters.

Edited by Lhancelot
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The main issue with team ranked is the same as it has been for years now, it’s the attitude of pvp players in this game. PvP players are, as a rule, competitive people. That’s why we aren’t satisfied by beating up npcs! But this also means that many pvpers want to win all the time, and get very upset if they lose. What does this mean?

 

Well, in solo ranked people can blame their teammates for losses. You see this all the time, with people flaming each other because each thinks the other is responsible for the loss. In team ranked though, the only person who can be blamed for screwing up is usually yourself.

 

This feeds into the big issue in swtor’s ranked scene: since people don’t losing all the time, there comes a team when one or two teams rise to the top and absolutely kill the queue. Everyone therefore makes efforts to avoid this team, or quit group ranked entirely since losses don’t feel good. Mat farming flooded the queues with new players, so even mediocre and intermediate teams could secure wins. As a result, the queues had players of all skill levels. When may farming became less efficient, those newer mat farmers left. The intermediate and mediocre plays started losing again and stopped queuing. In the end, average people queue on the dl every now and then against other average players, and the top teams have no one to play. That’s why group ranked is dead, on NA servers at least.

Edited by SlimeyDoom
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I did ranked solo in 2018, and my experience on SF was awful. Over half the matches had quitters before the match began, or during it. My rating depended on my teammates far too much in such a unstable meta it simply wasn't worth the frustration for me. I began writing down who quit and then tallied up the match numbers over half my matches were 3v4s or had quitters once the match started. Total garbage. So, either it suddenly has improved, or I just had uncanny string of bad luck for a week getting stuck on teams with trader-quitters.

 

You had an unlucky experience. You admit it was only for a week of queueing, and it was before cross faction was implemented. I played hundreds of matches during season 10. I'd say there were leavers in about 1-2% of them.

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The main issue with team ranked is the same as it has been for years now, it’s the attitude of pvp players in this game. PvP players are, as a rule, competitive people. That’s why we aren’t satisfied by beating up npcs! But this also means that many pvpers want to win all the time, and get very upset if they lose. What does this mean?

 

Well, in solo ranked people can blame their teammates for losses. You see this all the time, with people flaming each other because each thinks the other is responsible for the loss. In team ranked though, the only person who can be blamed for screwing up is usually yourself.

 

This feeds into the big issue in swtor’s ranked scene: since people don’t losing all the time, there comes a team when one or two teams rise to the top and absolutely kill the queue. Everyone therefore makes efforts to avoid this team, or quit group ranked entirely since losses don’t feel good. Mat farming flooded the queues with new players, so even mediocre and intermediate teams could secure wins. As a result, the queues had players of all skill levels. When may farming became less efficient, those newer mat farmers left. The intermediate and mediocre plays started losing again and stopped queuing. In the end, average people queue on the dl every now and then against other average players, and the top teams have no one to play. That’s why group ranked is dead, on NA servers at least.

 

The picture you're painting may well be accurate, but that doesn't mean it should go back to being that. Just because more teams were queueing does not mean it was a good system. Better a completely dead queue than one where average players just beat up on mat farmers all day, queue dodge each other, and gain rating that they don't deserve.

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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=957758

 

imo this is the only viable means of making it viable gameplay.

 

the core of why it doesnt work is it relies on people to already have the proper roles and up to 3 friends to play them.

 

the only thing "broken" about solo ranked is lack of MM lock and ignore list isnt allowed. niether of these functions should be applied to granked. maybe youll get the nub hlr that you havent ignored yet, but tough luck, maybe make friends and dont use this option.

Edited by Seterade
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This is an exaggeration, at least for solos on star forge. The vast majority of matches are totally legit. Even leavers were very rare. As has been discussed in other threads, most of the illegitimate behavior comes from forced pops during off hours.

 

I had to swap to SF in season 9 since I was being harrased on DM. People were leaving matches where they were in my team, they let me die and vote kicked me etc.

 

Playing on SF in season 9 and beginning of 10 was the best experience I ever had in solo ranked in swtor!! The matches were really good and so were the players. I was surpused that there were no trolls, no throwers no wintrading etc. It was really a good experience. However in season 10 i was getting less and less pops and I couldnt play at SF times anymore so I had to go back to DM.

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You had an unlucky experience. You admit it was only for a week of queueing, and it was before cross faction was implemented. I played hundreds of matches during season 10. I'd say there were leavers in about 1-2% of them.

 

Yes, it took one week of it for me to stop. I won't push myself through a miserable experience on a game for more than a week I don't have the patience. I look at games as a hobby and as a hobby it should be fun/fulfilling.

 

I did solo ranked during the "furious" rewards, and at that time I did not find it even remotely close to as awful as it was in 2018. Maybe I just have less patience for BS now that I am older I don't know.

Edited by Lhancelot
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Yes, it took one week of it for me to stop. I won't push myself through a miserable experience on a game for more than a week I don't have the patience. I look at games as a hobby and as a hobby it should be fun/fulfilling.

 

I did solo ranked during the "furious" rewards, and at that time I did not find it even remotely close to as awful as it was in 2018. Maybe I just have less patience for BS now that I am older I don't know.

 

people dont care anymore. stale meta and no expansion in sight has turned ranked into a playground for account sales.

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you literaly cut the answer to your question. account sales. accounts with top 3 ranked sell for around 300$ dollars.

 

The thing is you have to take into account the current state of the game. An account with top 3 is not worth much in a dead, degrading game. Yes, you can get lucky with finding some unaware person and get the sale but there is little chance at this point.

 

Its silly actually, you can really see the state of a game based on the amount the credit sellers want for credits :D it was a lot few years ago, but its much less now. Due to the many credit exploits its not even possible to get sale runs these days, people are not interested in credits anymore since you can get them easily, mainly buy selling MHs or gear now.

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