It's a conspiracy!

*puts on tinfoil helmet*

 

Malckiah is a dev posing as a normal member, with dev permissions. That's why he's able to post polls, and your post is just the coverup. I see through your lies! You won't get at my brain!!!

*runs in circles with arms flailing*

How much coffee have you had this morning?

In other words Self-Selecting polls, ie polls where people choose to answer them rather then are randomly polled, are always biased and don't actually reflect the true opinions of the whole, but only those who are very interested in the topics being polled on. They are great "for fun" but Bioware should not take the results seriously and if they are interested in polling their user base they should conduct a truly random selected poll.

I disagree. When you are working with a closed aperture of poll respondents (such as subscribers only) and it is that specific set of respondents you want to gather data from, any bias from voluntary poll response is marginal. Why? Because there is in fact randomness in the samples in an interest group, yet no fly randomness that tends to bias.

In addition, the OP inoculated this poll quite well from selection bias by allowing up to 5 responses. This largely disarms collective efforts to drive a specific bias.

On the other hand... if this poll were open to everyone on the planet... then it would be harshly biased by self-selection bias. A good example of self-selection bias among gamers is the survey that selected EA as the worlds worst company. A very small fraction of total available survey population, with a special interest in smearing a company, was able to in fact drive a survey bias.

It's a conspiracy!

*puts on tinfoil helmet*

 

Malckiah is a dev posing as a normal member, with dev permissions. That's why he's able to post polls, and your post is just the coverup. I see through your lies! You won't get at my brain!!!

*runs in circles with arms flailing*

LOL... put down the tinfoil and assume the position.

Interesting.

 

You have to admit though Eric... this poll has been good for the community and good for Bioware. I know you guys have great telemetry in game and many channels for feedback.... but what I appreciate about forum polls is that they separate player projection upon what "other players want" and allow the forum members to all have a equal voice into a reasonable gathering method to actually collectively state what players want.

 

I can see why polls could get out of hand in the forum and make for more moderation load for you and your staff... but it would be outstanding of you would initiate some polling from time to time to gather inputs from the forum members.

Agreed. Also despite the fact that polls conducted in this manner are flawed, there are some good data points here. The fact that this poll occurred extemporaneously also helps in my view.

How much coffee have you had this morning?

Coffee? I don't need coffee, one must be alert at all hours. Except when you get that 2:30 feeling, but that's what 5-hour energy is for.

*holds up a bottle and smiles*

Coffee? What coffee, one must be alert at all hours. Except when you get that 2:30 feeling, but that's what 5-hour energy is for.

*holds up a bottle and smiles*

Thats perfect. And reminds me of this http://9buz.com/upload/i_poured_redbull_in_my_coffee_this_morning_i_can_see_sounds__2013-07-07.jpg

I disagree. When you are working with a closed aperture of poll respondents (such as subscribers only) and it is that specific set of respondents you want to gather data from, any bias from voluntary poll response is marginal. Why? Because there is in fact randomness in the samples in an interest group, yet no fly randomness that tends to bias.

Completely disagree, the people who are going to be attracted to his poll and to his particular sub forum in general are not a fair cross sample of the player base or even the Subscriber Player Base. Or rather I should say there is no proof that that the interests of the people who bother to come to the General Forum Thread are a fair cross sample of the Subscriber User base. The Bias is built into how and where the poll, which is why Self Selected Polls have a major source of bias that you just can't get rid of. It's the same reason why putting a poll for customers of say McDonalds in the dine in booth section of the stores would be a bad idea, you are completely ignoring Drive through orders and people who come in but don't sit down and eat, and to pretend that people who eat in the restaurant automatically have the same break down and interests as the other 2 groups is foolish.

In other words, polls work BEST when the percentages of the basic demographics of the people polled matches the general population of people involved in the activity being polled for closest. ((Likely voters in the case of elections, and Subscribers maybe + preferred users in this polls case.)) Self Selecting polls do nothing to insure that, they can't.

Thats perfect. And reminds me of this http://9buz.com/upload/i_poured_redbull_in_my_coffee_this_morning_i_can_see_sounds__2013-07-07.jpg

I lol'd.

I do enjoy a good caffeine joke. Futurama,

A good example of self-selection bias among gamers is the survey that selected EA as the worlds worst company. A very small fraction of total available survey population, with a special interest in smearing a company, was able to in fact drive a survey bias.

Completely disagree, the people who are going to be attracted to his poll and to his particular sub forum in general are not a fair cross sample of the player base or even the Subscriber Player Base. Or rather I should say there is no proof that that the interests of the people who bother to come to the General Forum Thread are a fair cross sample of the Subscriber User base. The Bias is built into how and where the poll, which is why Self Selected Polls have a major source of bias that you just can't get rid of. It's the same reason why putting a poll for customers of say McDonalds in the dine in booth section of the stores would be a bad idea, you are completely ignoring Drive through orders and people who come in but don't sit down and eat, and to pretend that people who eat in the restaurant automatically have the same break down and interests as the other 2 groups is foolish.

Context of what you are seeking in a poll is very important. In this case, the poll seeks to acquire a stable statistical view of what subscribers crave in the way of future content.

The poll is in the official forums, in general discussion (the most popular and heavily trafficked part of the forum), and is a subscriber only aperture. Any forum member (regardless their bias) is equally able to enter the poll. The poll is a one-question/up-to-5-selections poll, which inoculates it from agenda bias.

IF your intention is to extract a representative view from subscribers as to what things they would like in the future, it is sufficiently randomized by the above elements to avoid any notable bias of any sub-faction of subscribers.. and that is the key for this poll.

On the other hand.. IF the intention of the poll is to gain a representative view of anyone who is playing, has played, or might play SWTOR... it is extremely flawed and biased.

The fact that the poll results stabilized early (around 200 respondents) that for all practical purposes it is bias free (in the context of subscribers). If you did this same poll with a random selection of 200 subscribers in game (if it was possible to determine subscriber from spoofer, but it's not) I bet the numbers come out within a few percentage points of what we have here. In other words, within the normal uncertainty of a poll.

The outcome of this poll does not match with my personal selections in the poll and desires. However, I am objective enough to embrace the poll as fair representation of what the collective community of subscribers want... and I support it on those grounds regardless of the fact that it does not match my personal desires.

That is because typically we do not allow polls on the forums. Due to that, forum accounts are not flagged to create them. However, Malckiah managed to find an issue we had with some forum permissions, one that I didn't know existed, and he was able to post this poll. Imagine my surprise when I saw it in GD

 

That issue has now been corrected and so poll creation should not be an option that anyone can see. Since this poll is already live though, I will let it ride!

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

hmm, well that's weird...

In any case:

1. PVP Content (ideally new 8v8 warzones/open world pvp areas/bolster removal/pvp gear on par with pve gear/fixed resolve/etc.)

2. Class Story (continuation of actual Class stories, not planetary arcs)

3. Planets (please, actual star wars planets instead of made up ones, dantooine, kashyyyk, etc.)

4. Legacy (Legacy Bank for credits/comms/storage for crafting mats)

5. New Class (new ACs, healing marauders, sniper tanks, or new base classes, Imperial Trooper, etc.)

Completely disagree, the people who are going to be attracted to his poll and to his particular sub forum in general are not a fair cross sample of the player base or even the Subscriber Player Base.

General discussion is the ONLY place in the forum to get a truly unbiased representation of the majority player base IMO. This has been the example in almost every game that has a forum, and I expect the same holds true here.

Almost all of the positive changes that have come to the game have come from GD suggestions, perhaps in small part, as opposed to other sections of the forum. There is a reason that many suggestions here directly line up with changes that became part of the game.

Because this is where the most representative section of the playerbase spends it's time.

Now, note, this poll, like any poll, is just to get a slice of opinion and multiply that across the entire group you are curious about. There is no real way to get the opinion of every single player, unless you do an in game poll of some kind. Again, the same goes for any poll.

The reason that polls are pretty good indicators is because they have always been traditionally good indicators. For every one person that answers a question, 1000 people would agree with them...arbitrary numbers, but you get the idea.

This poll suggests the majority of players desire extensions on class stories, something more than Makeb. Is is really that hard to believe that that would be the case across the entire playerbase? Also planets...falling in line with Makeb popularity, and minigames....pazaak and swoop racing being one of the most popular suggestions seems to fall in line with forum suggestions.

I believe this poll is a pretty good representation of the playerbase in it's entirety, and it's desires. Most of the folks in this forum that have accurately predicted what was coming to the game, what was happening to the game and how players would react fall in line with what the poll has demonstrated.

I'd say that is pretty convincing evidence.

Finally, I would say this directly to Bioware....

If you believe there is any desire from your majority playerbase for class story extensions, I would suggest you reconsider your decision to go with Makeb style only story expansions. Many folks have put forth sensible suggestions on how you provide class story extensions without increasing player level cap, and I suggested a way to combine both class stories and companion storylines with one small arc of 4 or 5 missions per class, developed and released one class at a time.

There are ways to provide story progression without it breaking the bank. Just consider it.

Context of what you are seeking in a poll is very important. In this case, the poll seeks to acquire a stable statistical view of what subscribers crave in the way of future content.

Stable and statistical? Right lol...maybe you can explain what "Planets" means then...it's the 2nd most wanted item...yet who the hell knows what "Planets" is? If Bioware goes and adds them to the Galaxy Map, is that all players wanted? Or does it mean new daily areas? New quests? New resources? Just...terrain? Ops? FPs?

The poll is fine for getting an idea of what players may like, but it's not even close to being the unbiased and scientifically accurate poll you pretend it is. All data is good...but this isn't better or more accurate than other polls or feedback.

Stable and statistical? Right lol...maybe you can explain what "Planets" means then...it's the 2nd most wanted item...yet who the hell knows what "Planets" is? If Bioware goes and adds them to the Galaxy Map, is that all players wanted? Or does it mean new daily areas? New quests? New resources? Just...terrain? Ops? FPs?

 

The poll is fine for getting an idea of what players may like, but it's not even close to being the unbiased and scientifically accurate poll you pretend it is. All data is good...but this isn't better or more accurate than other polls or feedback.

It's pretty obvious to me what planets means....another planet with some missions on it. Could be Makeb with a level cap increase, or just a new planet with a story like Ori. I don't think it's too hard for folks to figure out what it means.

The reason that polls are pretty good indicators is because they have always been traditionally good indicators.

This is not true. Well run polls are good indicators because they follow best practices that lead to results that match reality, IE election polls match the results of elections, however polls that are poorly run don't match with results at all. There is nothing magical about a poll, it's a tool that requires correct usage just like any other tool.

Context of what you are seeking in a poll is very important. In this case, the poll seeks to acquire a stable statistical view of what subscribers crave in the way of future content.

.

A better way to do that would be for Bioware to send out a poll to a group of subscribers that closely matches the actual break down of players.

There is nothing in evidence that shows that the people who come to this forum are a close break down of the opinions of the general game playing populace. In fact we know they don't represent the opinions of people who played the game as more people have quit the game then are still subscribers.

This is not true. Well run polls are good indicators because they follow best practices that lead to results that match reality, IE election polls match the results of elections, however polls that are poorly run don't match with results at all. There is nothing magical about a poll, it's a tool that requires correct usage just like any other tool.

OK... you have placed your stake in the ground. Now.. prove this poll is not a statistically accurate representation of what subscribers desire. Right now, all we have is your stake in the ground. Please provide proof if you wish us to endorse your stake in the ground.

Look.. I get what you are saying regarding polling best practices. I agree with you from a clinical sense. However, a poll does not have to apply 100% best practices for it to be an accurate representation (+/- polling uncertainty) of what the polled audience desires. What we don't have here is what the uncertainty factor is... and nor do we really need it for a cross section multi-answer poll. This is not a poll of PvP YES/NO or Raids YES/NO or <insert your pet agenda here>.

A better way to do that would be for Bioware to send out a poll to a group of subscribers that closely matches the actual break down of players.

 

There is nothing in evidence that shows that the people who come to this forum are a close break down of the opinions of the general game playing populace. In fact we know they don't represent the opinions of people who played the game as more people have quit the game then are still subscribers.

Those who quit aren't subscribers. So then this poll isn't for them, now is it?

Given in the last few posts from the development team there has been talk of listening to the player base and thanking the fans and telling us they are taking note this poll should have been created by the community team to give weight to the design choices of the development team. After all from the galactic star fighters blog

After a great deal of deliberation, it was clear we had to prioritize which features would be best received by you, the fans

From this you would imagine PvP would be top of the votes as that's the direction that the SSSP took. Likewise if the development team are looking at what the player base want this poll gives them a good idea. Is class story something that should be ignored to focus on more generic story, it seems this would not be acting on player/fan feed back. So if we don't see any more class story it would be wrong for any more blogs to say we are acting on what the players want.

OK... you have placed your stake in the ground. Now.. prove this poll is not a statistically accurate representation of what subscribers desire. Right now, all we have is your stake in the ground. Please provide proof if you wish us to endorse your stake in the ground.

Wait, the claim is this poll is a good representation, that is what has to proved. You just asked me to prove a negative.

Somebody doesn't get to go "Aliens are out there and are getting ready to invade." and then answer that they have no proof with "Pove Aliens aren't out there!!!" That's insane.

Wait, the claim is this poll is a good representation, that is what has to proved. You just asked me to prove a negative.

 

Somebody doesn't get to go "Aliens are out there and are getting ready to invade." and then answer that they have no proof with "Pove Aliens aren't out there!!!" That's insane.

It is a good representation of subscribers on this forum. And that's what this poll is for.

Given in the last few posts from the development team there has been talk of listening to the player base and thanking the fans and telling us they are taking note this poll should have been created by the community team to give weight to the design choices of the development team. After all from the galactic star fighters blog

 

 

 

From this you would imagine PvP would be top of the votes as that's the direction that the SSSP took. Likewise if the development team are looking at what the player base want this poll gives them a good idea. Is class story something that should be ignored to focus on more generic story, it seems this would not be acting on player/fan feed back. So if we don't see any more class story it would be wrong for any more blogs to say we are acting on what the players want.

Well considering PvP is one of the lowest scoring items we have to assume one or some combination of the following.

1. This poll doesn't match what their internal numbers show.

2. They work on whatever they want to and don't follow poll numbers.

From this you would imagine PvP would be top of the votes as that's the direction that the SSSP took.

This poll is taken in the context that we already are getting space PVP, so why would people ask for it? Space PVP is different than ground PVP, so throwing them together would be a mistake.

Likewise if the development team are looking at what the player base want this poll gives them a good idea. Is class story something that should be ignored to focus on more generic story, it seems this would not be acting on player/fan feed back. So if we don't see any more class story it would be wrong for any more blogs to say we are acting on what the players want.

Acting on some suggestions from the fanbase does not mean that they are forever obligated to act on every popular suggestion ever. It would not be wrong to continue to say that they act on our suggestions, even though they only act on some of them. The suggestion has to be feasible, it has to fit with their chosen direction of the game, and something that will fit in their time and budget.

You also have to consider what they're already working on, and if certain suggestions conflict or enhance features already in development.

It is a good representation of subscribers on this forum. And that's what this poll is for.

Yes, subscribers on this forum, who choose to vote in the poll...

There is nothing however that shows it reflects all subscribers on the forum, and certainly not all subscribers.

Add on: The yellow post above mine basically said the same thing. The opinions of people on the General forum aren't always a good reflection of the opinions of the entire Subscriber base.