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TylerAcalan's Avatar


TylerAcalan
01.03.2014 , 11:57 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by SpaniardInfinity View Post
Well if you're bleeding that much...a band-aid won't save you.
Pffft.

I just walk it off and drink some water. LIKE A BAWS.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
01.04.2014 , 02:31 AM | #22
I apologize if I came off hostile, Im just sick of the devs either lacking the comprehension to work on real fixes or being too stupid to realize that what they 'fix' doesnt actually fix anything.

Ive been a heavily involved member of the community since before launch. Im just tired of waiting for the devs to finally wake the fk up and make the changes that need to be made.

Putting Tech Override on a 60s cooldown would be an enormous help to this class. IMO it would probably be the one single change that would have the most improvement in PvP QoL. The devs even acknowledged how ridiculous the cooldowns on some of our abilities are in the Mercenary answers. How freaking hard is it to change the fking cooldown on an ability? Change it, send it to PTS, and lets us fk around with it since they are clearly too fking lazy/dumb/ignorant to do it themselves.

Not to mention I am getting really, really fking pissed about this Class Rep thing. Yet another instance of the dev team jerking us around.

/endrant
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

K_osss's Avatar


K_osss
01.04.2014 , 08:55 AM | #23
I think that's a great suggestion for several reasons. It doesn't require big changes to the class like adding new skills would. It is very flexible in that it allows commandos to benefit in many different scenarios (defense, offense etc..) and it seems pretty simple to implement. Keep championing it Cashogy, I know the process is super slow and not without annoyance but I think that's the hand we've been dealt. I do believe that the community has the power to get something like this done!

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
01.04.2014 , 09:18 AM | #24
While I'm going to reserve judgment until I know the full extent of the changes, I will say that the developers opted to highlight the wrong parts of the patch, if indeed more changes are coming. That is because these changes do absolutely nothing to adress the core issues this class has, those core issues being:

- Unreasonably unforgiving energy manegement and overt reliance on RNG procs
- Unreasonable susceptibility to cast and channel cancelling due to interrupts AND physics

The highlights are minor changes that completely ignore these two issues:

- Another Trauma probe on another tank isn't going to make heals cheaper or energy regeneration faster. Trauma probe ticks heal for the least amount of all healing skills (save for Hammer Shot), so a Trauma probe is not going to save the tank unless he receives significant amounts of healing from other skills. Those other heals, however, are overpriced, inefficient and slow, as per courtesy of patch 1.2. As such, another Trauma probe does nothing to buff our meaningful healing skills (Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, Bacta Infusion), especially considering that we would still have to take the absolutely worthless "Frontline Medic" talent. Personally, I'd rather have 1 Trauma probe without "Frontline Medic" than 2 probes with.

- Hammer shot usable on self is a meaningless change on its own. When answering the Commando questions, Bioware already pointed out that Hammer shot used on us will not generate Combat Support Cells for whatever reason. So on one hand we get to use it on us, but on the other it's completely pointless becuase using Hammer Shot on virtually anyone else is more beneficial. Besides in what situation in PvE or PvP would you not have at least one team member within 30 meters of you? (EV Infernal Council, ok, but that's pretty much it.) And Bioware already commented that Hammer Shot critical hits will not regenerate cells like Diagnostic Scan regens Energy for Scoundrels/Operatives. So, there were two meaningful ways in which to change Hammer Shot (build CSS on yourself and have crits restore Ammo) but no, they opted to do neither.

- 100% pushback immunity is, again, meaningless on its own. Our casts and channels are not getting pushed back, they are getting outright interrupted by anything, not just interrupts. Leaps, pushes, pulls, knockbacks anything that can move us physically will interrupt a channel/cast. Even with Hold the Line (which only lasts for 6 seconds for healers), the window in which we can be completely shut down, even by one melee, is still very long. Any meaningful change would have to provide, real, tangible interrupt immunity. Besides, as our representative already pointed out, we already have access to 70% pushback immunity and it hasn't made the situation one bit easier for us. It's unreasonable to think that changing it to 100% will have a meaningful impact. Commando DPS and Healers will still be the primary target for everyone in PvP because they are still unable to defend themselves.

And that's it. Not a word about streamlining resources for DPS or adding in numerical values for Ammo, both of which the developers commented we deserve. Like I said, I hope it's just the very beginning of the changes, the very thin tip of the iceberg and lots more are coming, otherwise it will only piss people off again. I seriously hope that Bioware will prove me wrong and fix everything that needs fixing, however, it still strikes me strange to highlight such minor, meaningless changes if larger, more impactful ones are being implemented at the same time.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

venomlash's Avatar


venomlash
01.04.2014 , 11:20 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
- Another Trauma probe on another tank isn't going to make heals cheaper or energy regeneration faster. Trauma probe ticks heal for the least amount of all healing skills (save for Hammer Shot), so a Trauma probe is not going to save the tank unless he receives significant amounts of healing from other skills. Those other heals, however, are overpriced, inefficient and slow, as per courtesy of patch 1.2. As such, another Trauma probe does nothing to buff our meaningful healing skills (Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, Bacta Infusion), especially considering that we would still have to take the absolutely worthless "Frontline Medic" talent. Personally, I'd rather have 1 Trauma probe without "Frontline Medic" than 2 probes with.
Hopefully they'll make Trauma Probe available for more than just 1 or 2 extra targets and give us enough to put it on a few DPS as well, which will improve our utility when dealing with ops-wide damage phases. It's a small heal, but it's fire-and-forget and extremely efficient. It's basically damage mitigation in a can, and it's an underrated skill IMO.
I ABSOLUTELY agree that they need to stop making us take Frontline Medic; it's 2 wasted points 99% of the time.
Quote: Originally Posted by MichelleArcher View Post
Hey there, all! This thread has passed the dreaded 1,000 post limit, and is now in fire. Thanks for the fun, but we feel this discussion as run its course. We will not be restarting this thread.
Jarrant Gartin, Gunnery Commando, Spark of Hope, Begeren Colony

Vilanix's Avatar


Vilanix
01.04.2014 , 12:02 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
I apologize if I came off hostile, Im just sick of the devs either lacking the comprehension to work on real fixes or being too stupid to realize that what they 'fix' doesnt actually fix anything.

Ive been a heavily involved member of the community since before launch. Im just tired of waiting for the devs to finally wake the fk up and make the changes that need to be made.

Putting Tech Override on a 60s cooldown would be an enormous help to this class. IMO it would probably be the one single change that would have the most improvement in PvP QoL. The devs even acknowledged how ridiculous the cooldowns on some of our abilities are in the Mercenary answers. How freaking hard is it to change the fking cooldown on an ability? Change it, send it to PTS, and lets us fk around with it since they are clearly too fking lazy/dumb/ignorant to do it themselves.

Not to mention I am getting really, really fking pissed about this Class Rep thing. Yet another instance of the dev team jerking us around.

/endrant

The two changes I would like to see is TO on a 45 second cool down and my 30m cryo grenade back

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
01.04.2014 , 01:18 PM | #27
I said it before, and I'll keep saying it, as many others also have. (Apologies for the Merconese )

Even without those two talent-points in Arsen/Gunny, pushback is not a big problem for us (at least IME). With the talent, it's practically non-existent.

Tracer Missile/Grav Round and PowerShots/Charged Bolts need to be un-interruptable.

Lower their raw damage if you absolutely must (hint: This is not needed, but I can't see it not happening, given the usual MMO-dev paradigm of excessively-huge-nerf-in-exchange-for-small-buff.)

I most ardently hope/pray that they will fix the Barrage/Curtain of Fire so it actually works consistently, without making ProtoAccelerator/Ionic Accelerator as bad as Barrage/CoF is now, because that would completely ruin Pyro/Assault. Again.

Do it right, and un-interruptable TM/GR and PShot/CB wouldn't be over-powered, because you wouldn't need to spam it whilst fishing for a proc that doesn't!

Barrage/CoF makes the Unload/Full-Auto un-interruptabe. Add a fourth tick to it as well. (Like the Slinger's Speed Shots/Sniper's Series of Shots).

^^That^^ done right is what would keep an un-interruptable TM/GR and PShot/CB from being OP, because:

Bear in mind --unless I'm hugely mistaken-- that "un-interruptable" in TOR parlance just means "immune to the effect of the actual interrupt-ability." It does not render you immune to mezz, stun, knock-back/knockdown and other things that aren't "actual" interrupts, but still cause one. (<---IOW, the "un-shakeable" buff for Snipingers -- all these things can shut one off/physically control him if he doesn't have Entrench/Hunker Down up. This is what Mercs/Mandos need. This what we have always needed.)

Just as an aside: How can a dev-team be as utterly clueless as this lot seems to be, and still have jobs?

TylerAcalan's Avatar


TylerAcalan
01.05.2014 , 12:57 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by midianlord View Post
Lower their raw damage if you absolutely must (hint: This is not needed, but I can't see it not happening, given the usual MMO-dev paradigm of excessively-huge-nerf-in-exchange-for-small-buff.)
See that's a particular problem that no one wants. They don't hit hard enough to warrant ANY kind of damage reduction to make them instant. There's plenty of other talents that are insta-cast on other classes that hit for the same amount.

HIB is our true devastator but requires that we set up a DOT on our opponent first. The first use of HIB can only be done when you proc the Plasma Cell charge before you get other abilities at higher level. And they can be cleansed pretty quick.

This is an example of SMALL CONSISTENT CHANGE that the Devs need to take. Don't hit it with an overwhelming whopping change in an attempt to "balance out" the ability. Make the small change by removing the cast time first.

Then monitor the change.

If it's too potent, THEN whack the damage value.

DON'T try to balance it out in one go, from their past history THAT DOESN'T WORK.

Quote: Originally Posted by midianlord View Post
Just as an aside: How can a dev-team be as utterly clueless as this lot seems to be, and still have jobs?
Oblivious Denial.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
01.05.2014 , 02:36 AM | #29
They wont, and shouldnt, be making GR/CB instant cast on a permanent basis. We are a ranged class, casting balances out our ability to do damage from range.

Short-term mechanics are the answer here. Commando should be the kind of class that sits back and fires away at the enemy, and when the enemy gets in their face they keep on trucking and outputting damage. Tech Override is the most obvious way to make that happen; short term mechanic that allows us to use casted abilities instantly.

I have proposed in the past a mechanic that functions off of Stock Strike, granting 2-3 charges of Tech Override after using Stock Strike. This gives a melee attack in a ranged class an actual use; melee enemy in your face? Use Stock Strike, get charges of TO and youre able to fight back. Give it a short recourse timer of 15-20s, and youre cooking with fire. I had been calling it "run and gun" in the past, but if we actually got the change I could care less about the name.

The developers are very uninspired in their balancing decisions. Itd be real fking solid if we could get a dialogue about some of these changes. You know, what the class rep program was supposed to do?
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.05.2014 , 02:37 AM | #30
Honestly I think giving CoF the same proc beavior as IA would settle all of gunnery's PVE problems. More FA is not only more damage, but whenever you're lucky enough to have the procs rolling, everyone knows how easy ammo management is. It's when you go a full CD cycle without getting a single proc that things get really hairy. Change the proc chance to be additive and we're good to go. I wouldn't argue against making HiB free again either, but whatever. For PVP lower TO to 60 seconds as requested (along with RP), and for God's sake put some interrupt immunity on something, personally I like Hold the Line for this, and boom. The class is fixed in PVP too.


Also give us Battle Focus because not having an offensive cooldown is flat out BS Bioware.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd