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2 Important Pyrotech PvP Question

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
2 Important Pyrotech PvP Question

Afraid's Avatar


Afraid
01.08.2014 , 05:30 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Krozis View Post
You are very right on with this post. It pretty much answers your own questions.

I played a lot of ranked (8 Man) with my two main characters: a merc and a powertech (yes a BH nut I suppose). I concur that it is a fact when you start getting marked, and/or approached by a Shadow or Shadow/Sentinel, etc, then your DPS goes down remarkably, however your opponent's does not.

BUT the big question is... while we are backing up, being interrupted, dotted, slowed, face planted, spin kicked, etc, etc, would you rather be trying to get that Trace Missile off? Or or a TM, TD, RS combo?

The funny thing is I put up amazingly better numbers in Powertech on ranked that it soon became my guild only wanted my PT, and not the Merc unless I was queing heals. Why is this? I would not call the Powertech more defensive! The reason the PT excels where the Merc does not is because of two main reasons: Flame Burst and Cryo freeze buys you a split second of some serious DPS. This is something a Merc just can't do.

So while I agree that if the other team ignores my Arsenal Merc, they will pay dearly, but it happens so very little there's almost no point. I enjoy the play style and the 'big hit' off of Heatseeker that once in a while you crit a fat number, but it is too frustrating.

Back a year ago I posted often in the Merc forum 'begging' Devs to STOP making Arsenal so reliant on Tracer. They partially fixed this but not really. Yes, one Tracer Missile does the armour break, but STILL we are too reliant Tracer to : Proc Unload dmg, build damage modifier (nerfed), AND make Rail shot truly hurt.

My experiences in ranked tell me at the end of the day you're still far better off with a Sniper than an arsenal merc. We really are in the same nether region that Lightning Sorcs are. If you need a caster that can punch through armour, you want a Sniper. For now I play Pyro in non-ranked matches where my DPS might be scrutinized, but I love bashing my head against the wall so when no one is looking I do still run Arsenal.
Indeed now that im 200+ ranked games i have the knowledge to answer my own questions .The point of this thread was to answer something before i enter ranked.I also am a BH holic and ill be running a PT soon(probly AP spec since operative buff is incoming and AP has -30% dmg on stuns).Played my 80-90 matches as pyrotech merc, he is rly so very squishier than ar senal merc,that when i swapped to arsenal i gained 150 elo in 3 days.You are right, if i free cast they will lose 90% of the time ( damage done is irrelevant,all you need is short burst periods to kill people not dmg showoff).My dmg with pyro was maybe better however my dmg with arsenal is more important because it comes all together and can be the lethal death blow we need on someone.Honestly,sometimes that i kite 2-3 people i feel like im the black sheep,i cannot retaliate besides one insta tracer(if i dont heal with pwer surge) ed en rocket punch hsm rs.Thats it, then im a loaf of bread spamming kolto missile and knockback while losing....I maybe hit my goal on arsenal (1380+ elo is the goal, currently 1220) but honestly im pretty sure once my PT is done,he will be 1000 times easier to achieve my goal.And that sucks

Krozis's Avatar


Krozis
01.08.2014 , 07:39 AM | #12
Yes, that's what I found.

The PT is far easier. And you will reach your goal, and it will dishearten you moreso towards your Mercenary. This is what happened to me even before BW shut down 8 man ranked. Net sure is fun.... so is shoulder rocket, but I still perfer the Merc playstyle on a day to day basis. I have just concluded that I play a second rate character in the Merc and all I can do is deal with it because even after a year of changes the 'hierarchy' of ranked DPS really hasn't changed much, has it?

I thought I would find true love with my PT but instead I got a lot of hate from healers. I finally changed his name and retired him! I went back to second class citizen Merc. I hope you find what you are looking for with your PT. Good luck and try to enjoy it. If you become bitter like me, you just end up quitting in frustration. lol
̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\= Formerly from a big guild that is now hundreds of tiny guilds. =/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿
Krozis \ Vintego \ Vint

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
01.11.2014 , 08:42 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
It's (parse) not irrelevant since it shows the damage potential.
For pvp it is irrelevant. Merc Pyro may have the top parse numbers, but it is probably the worst dps class for arena in the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
Arsenal's burst is procced Unload .... Pyro has nothing to match that ~3 second burst, and if you add a RS or HSM Pyro still can't keep up in that 3 GCD.
Short chopping UL to use your 2x RS provides much better burst than Arsenal's Unload. In basically the same time window. And it is non-interruptible. Which is the key. Just try using that Unload with a melee on you in an ranked arena. LOL.

Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
With the cd difference of dots, the number of dots and the fact that you can dot with ranged attacks makes cleansing a non-factor really. Other than Force Shroud and Evasion I rarely have trouble with cleansing. Even if you get cleansed you just replace 1 PS with IM. And UL/PS is hardly crappy filler.
Force Shroud and Evasion are not cleansing. Against a competent enemy operative/scoundrel you are just playing a losing game with Pyro DoTs. Triage costs a mere 1 energy net of GCD recovery, and it is going to negate 3-4k of Pyro DoT damage. With the presence of a Pyro, Triage is elevated to the scoundrel's best insta-heal. If enemies aren't doing that to you, then they simply aren't very good.

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
01.11.2014 , 10:32 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroecon View Post
For pvp it is irrelevant. Merc Pyro may have the top parse numbers, but it is probably the worst dps class for arena in the game.
/Sigh ok.....i'm not gona keep arguing about this


Quote:
Short chopping UL to use your 2x RS provides much better burst than Arsenal's Unload. In basically the same time window. And it is non-interruptible. Which is the key. Just try using that Unload with a melee on you in an ranked arena. LOL.
No, RS->PS->RS doesn't match arsenal highest 3GCD burst

Spoiler


I used the tooltip values with my gear. Obviously I didn't count for the off-hand hits, the armor reductions and the different crit ratings between builds, but I doubt that would make 40% difference.

Quote:
Force Shroud and Evasion are not cleansing. Against a competent enemy operative/scoundrel you are just playing a losing game with Pyro DoTs. Triage costs a mere 1 energy net of GCD recovery, and it is going to negate 3-4k of Pyro DoT damage. With the presence of a Pyro, Triage is elevated to the scoundrel's best insta-heal. If enemies aren't doing that to you, then they simply aren't very good.
Shroud and Evasion purges which is the same as cleanse just better, so your point is...? Anyway I'm not gona argue about this either, it's been already said. Most ppl don't cleanse but even if they do it's not a big deal.