The entire reason I joined SWTOR many years ago was because I loved the force aspect of Star Wars. I've really only been serious or gotten to a high level with my sage and shadow, but my shadow doesn't have enough force techniques to make it fun for me.

 

Coming back to this game after a year hiatus, and have they really nerfed the sage into oblivion? Is it truly as unviable in both PvE and PvP as people are making it out to be?

 

I really don't want to believe this, but if that's the reality of the situation I'll just complete the new story missions and cancel my subscription again until the class is buffed.

 

Also, does anyone have any idea when a new round of nerfs/buffs would happen? Any time frame would be appreciated so I know how long i'll have to wait for this.

Sage DPS was nerfed in 5.0. For non ranked PvP it is still fine though the DoT spec is all fluff damage and the lighting spec is meh. Don't even bother taking it into ranked. Not sure about PvE. Heal spec is still king of the hill in both. Edited January 3, 2017 by Kawiki

I was playing Sage/Sorc since beta but now with the other changes they finally got me to cancel because I was not enjoying the game.

Yeah Sorc DPS is in a rough spot right now.

 

As to PVE, madness is still viable in everything up to maybe HM ops. I wouldn't touch NM or HM Ravagers or Temple though right now.

Yeah Sorc DPS is in a rough spot right now.

 

As to PVE, madness is still viable in everything up to maybe HM ops. I wouldn't touch NM or HM Ravagers or Temple though right now.

 

Even on static boss fight, lightning has higher parses up than madness right now.

 

And its a lot more mobile, target switch friendly and have less force management issue for aoe (outside dot spread, which requires some timing often).

 

So right now I'd say there is very little reason to play madness sorcs, unless the sustained damage gets an appreciable buff. The across the board nerf to the dots and force lightning really threw madness down the drain.

This class is no longer viable in end game content, and ranked pvp. If you try to do ranked as dps you will have an entire team mad at you for having queued. If you try to get into an ops, you will have a very tough time getting into one that's HM or higher unless they are guildies and know that you can play the class well. This class has been UTTERLY DESTROYED for unknown reasons, and needs a reset back to where it was before 5.0

Is there a reason for them doing this? Did they state that these class changes were based off of feedback or is this something they just decided to do?

 

I only enjoy playing as a Sorcerer when it comes to DPS but I'm not enjoying it anymore.

Is there a reason for them doing this? Did they state that these class changes were based off of feedback or is this something they just decided to do?

 

I only enjoy playing as a Sorcerer when it comes to DPS but I'm not enjoying it anymore.

 

They did not even put the nerfs in the patch notes. They have not addressed any of the class balance issues that have come with 5.0. I think that they just like to pretend they don't exist because they don't know how to balance.

I have 7 sorcerers that are lvl 70 and this is my favorite class in the game.

Sorcerer/Sage needs to be buffed. Sorc DPS has to be as high as Sniper's Engineering

Edited January 16, 2017 by BraverDre

I have 7 sorcerers that are lvl 70 and this is my favorite class in the game.

Sorcerer/Sage needs to be buffed. Sorc DPS has to be as high as Sniper's Engineering

 

Not really that high, since engi has issues when boss moves that sorc doesn't have, but it should definitively be higher than what it is now.

 

Some burst spec just do not even meet some dps check in HM or NiM on the debuffed dummy right now, and that should be corrected. Madness being a DoT spec is parsing WAY too low.

The entire reason I joined SWTOR many years ago was because I loved the force aspect of Star Wars. I've really only been serious or gotten to a high level with my sage and shadow, but my shadow doesn't have enough force techniques to make it fun for me.

 

Coming back to this game after a year hiatus, and have they really nerfed the sage into oblivion? Is it truly as unviable in both PvE and PvP as people are making it out to be?

 

I really don't want to believe this, but if that's the reality of the situation I'll just complete the new story missions and cancel my subscription again until the class is buffed.

 

Also, does anyone have any idea when a new round of nerfs/buffs would happen? Any time frame would be appreciated so I know how long i'll have to wait for this.

 

People that don't like Sorc are playing ranked 100% I guess. I typically find that people who take ranked in this game seriously to be complete fking morons that I don't want to associate with. It's a garbage system with terrible queue times and it's laughable to even think about taking it seriously.

 

That being said, sorcs are great is regular warzones if you're looking to have fun and I don't have any issues in PvE with them. There are so many terrible players in this game that it's easy to be the best no matter how bad your class is. The bar is set really low, lots of keyboard turning clicking house dads play this because it's starwars.

 

Play the class and have fun.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Kurfer

Sorcs are definitely paper thin with a high lack of damage now, but I defiitely think lightning is the better choice of the two now. You don't have to ever stop miving just about, what with FS proccing lightning botl and taking damage having a chance to proc LB too, and alacrity boosts built into the spec and in polarity shift.... the lightning just never stops. madness you have to build it up, put your two dots on, sit still for FL, if it didn't get all the ticks, sit still for FL again, put on the third dot, spread etc. your only real burst is leech into procced demolish. for the most part you're just tickling 3-4 people at once.

I just want to play sorc/sage because it's the iconic class of starwars.

 

if I wanted to shoot guns, i'd just play call of duty.

People that don't like Sorc are playing ranked 100% I guess. I typically find that people who take ranked in this game seriously to be complete fking morons that I don't want to associate with. It's a garbage system with terrible queue times and it's laughable to even think about taking it seriously.

 

That being said, sorcs are great is regular warzones if you're looking to have fun and I don't have any issues in PvE with them. There are so many terrible players in this game that it's easy to be the best no matter how bad your class is. The bar is set really low, lots of keyboard turning clicking house dads play this because it's starwars.

 

Play the class and have fun.

 

Regarding this thread specifically, it has nothing to do with liking the class. I love this class, and greatly enjoyed raiding with it. The thing is, the nerfs that this class received with 5.0 put it in such a bad spot dps wise that it is either barely viable if played exceptionally well, or not viable at all. I really don't know because I have quit with 5.0 due to lack of content and RNG gearing. 4.0 Sorcs were in a rather weak spot dps wise, but if you were good enough at the class and the game in general you could clear all NiM with the class. It also dominated PvP.

 

As far as ranked goes, I think the general consensus is that corruption is the only way to go. Maybe there are a select few who could make Madness and/or Lightning work, but I don't know. As far as PvE is concerned, as I already stated, I am not sure if Sorcs can pass the hard dps checks in the NiM fights. Maybe in 240s or 242s, but I don't have the gear nor the desire to test it out this "expac".

I just want to play sorc/sage because it's the iconic class of starwars.

 

if I wanted to shoot guns, i'd just play call of duty.

 

you have a point

 

Regarding this thread specifically, it has nothing to do with liking the class. I love this class, and greatly enjoyed raiding with it. The thing is, the nerfs that this class received with 5.0 put it in such a bad spot dps wise that it is either barely viable if played exceptionally well, or not viable at all. I really don't know because I have quit with 5.0 due to lack of content and RNG gearing. 4.0 Sorcs were in a rather weak spot dps wise, but if you were good enough at the class and the game in general you could clear all NiM with the class. It also dominated PvP.

 

As far as ranked goes, I think the general consensus is that corruption is the only way to go. Maybe there are a select few who could make Madness and/or Lightning work, but I don't know. As far as PvE is concerned, as I already stated, I am not sure if Sorcs can pass the hard dps checks in the NiM fights. Maybe in 240s or 242s, but I don't have the gear nor the desire to test it out this "expac".

 

I'm full with 240 crafted gear and also was in NiM ops since 5.0 came out (DF), the only fight that I was able to pull a good number as a sorc (madness) was Grob'tok, on 11.3k dps with NiM crystal, and 10.5k without a crystal, due to the dots spread and aoe of the adds, thats a one fight that favorise the sorc pretty good, second fight that had I would say a decent number, was on Draxus, but for Nefra and Brontes, the dps was way lower than the other classes. Madness is still a DECENT aoe spec, I wouldn't say good tho, cause ofc, the most OP class atm (merc) can pull way more than that.

 

To take a look on parsely for the dps on dummy

 

Best sorc = 8.6k dps

Best jugg = 9k dps

Best powertech = 9.4k dps

Best op = 9.6k dps

Best marauder = 9.98 dps

Best sniper = 10k dps

Best merc = 10.2k dps

Best sin = 11.4k dps

 

As you can see, all the classes are capable to pull more than 9k dps, except for the sorc ! Not to say about 10k and even 11k !!!!

 

Beetween the lowest and the best, is a nearly 3k difference.

I really hope BioWare can see this and do something about it DOES THIS SEEMS TO BE BALANCED FOR YOU BW ?!!!

Edited January 18, 2017 by Tibi-Fit

I'm full with 240 crafted gear and also was in NiM ops since 5.0 came out (DF), the only fight that I was able to pull a good number as a sorc (madness) was Grob'tok, on 11.3k dps with NiM crystal, and 10.5k without a crystal, due to the dots spread and aoe of the adds, thats a one fight that favorise the sorc pretty good, second fight that had I would say a decent number, was on Draxus, but for Nefra and Brontes, the dps was way lower than the other classes. Madness is still a DECENT aoe spec, I wouldn't say good tho, cause ofc, the most OP class atm (merc) can pull way more than that.

 

To take a look on parsely for the dps on dummy

 

Best sorc = 8.6k dps

Best jugg = 9k dps

Best powertech = 9.4k dps

Best op = 9.6k dps

Best marauder = 9.98 dps

Best sniper = 10k dps

Best merc = 10.2k dps

Best sin = 11.4k dps

 

As you can see, all the classes are capable to pull more than 9k dps, except for the sorc ! Not to say about 10k and even 11k !!!!

 

Beetween the lowest and the best, is a nearly 3k difference.

I really hope BioWare can see this and do something about it DOES THIS SEEMS TO BE BALANCED FOR YOU BW ?!!!

 

I would say that the problem in this case is using Madness. The simulated difference between Madness and Lightning is about 200 dps. When you factor in the lack of mobility and meaningful burst on Madness, coupled with the fact that they nerfed the self heals quite a bit at the end of 4.0, I would say that Madness in its current state is not worth playing if you are attempting NiM fights. I am not saying that Lightning is viable either, just that on most fights that spec will outperform Madness even though Madness does more on paper.

 

I don't bother going by dummy parsing anymore because there are too many variables that contribute to that spread to make it reliable balancing information. The only meaningful thing you can go by are fight parses, but I doubt anyone who played Sorc in NiM in 4.0 is still doing so. Maybe they are, but I doubt it.

 

Just out of curiosity did you clear Brontes with the Sorc. If so what was your group comp and dps numbers if you don' t mind telling me. Curious to see just how bad it is in actual fights.

To take a look on parsely for the dps on dummy

 

Best sorc = 8.6k dps

Best jugg = 9k dps

Best powertech = 9.4k dps

Best op = 9.6k dps

Best marauder = 9.98 dps

Best sniper = 10k dps

Best merc = 10.2k dps

Best sin = 11.4k dps

 

As you can see, all the classes are capable to pull more than 9k dps, except for the sorc ! Not to say about 10k and even 11k !!!!

 

Beetween the lowest and the best, is a nearly 3k difference.

I really hope BioWare can see this and do something about it DOES THIS SEEMS TO BE BALANCED FOR YOU BW ?!!!

 

The "highest" sins are bugged double stance sins currently, once that get fixed, their dps is going to fall back in line to the roughly 9.6k dps they should be reaching. Stil the 10.2k merc dps is legit, and the damage hold rather well in fight, with generous aoe spread. For fight where IO is really a bad idea, Arsenal is a burst spec with a VERY good sustained for a spec of that type.

 

But yes, Madness should be roughly around 9.6k to be viable in ops, lightning in the lowerish 9k. Really sad to see how this team has no idea how to balance sorc currently, or tell reg WZ players that they can stuff it.

Edited January 18, 2017 by verfallen

Just out of curiosity did you clear Brontes with the Sorc. If so what was your group comp and dps numbers if you don' t mind telling me. Curious to see just how bad it is in actual fights.

 

The dps was around more than 6k, like 6.5k, which is bad cause this is a dps that I usually pulled in 4.0, for 5 levels, this is not like a difference, while merc and sin was able to pull easily around 8k or even 9k this is the actuall number that need to be pulled in a fight like brontes, Madness is not a viable fight for brontes, the dots aren't helping at all. Lightning might be a better choice and I belive a reakky good lightning can pull maybe 7k in that fight which is still decent, and if the rest of the dps are also good, Brontes can be killed even with 1 sorc in a group. This is the minimum of the dps required, and it's on the very limit, otherwise brontes will hit enrage

Edited January 18, 2017 by Tibi-Fit

But yes, Madness should be roughly around 9.6k to be viable in ops, lightning in the lowerish 9k. Really sad to see how this team has no idea how to balance sorc currently, or tell reg WZ players that they can stuff it.

 

This ^

 

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people couldn't care less about warzones.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Terrimando

I have only really seriously played my Madness sorc since coming back in. And even before that it was my main class. Reading this thread makes me very sad. I've tried to solo some flashpoints outside of Black Talon with few successes.

I have only really seriously played my Madness sorc since coming back in. And even before that it was my main class. Reading this thread makes me very sad. I've tried to solo some flashpoints outside of Black Talon with few successes.

 

Part of soloing FPs is gear. Something that people often forget when a new xpac hits is that they were at top gear before, but their gear now is not top anymore so soloing will be harder. The only thing that Sorc dps being in a bad state should affect is ranked PvP and NiM. Anything other than that is player error or lack of gear. Sorc dps is more than capable of meeting dps checks in HM ops, HM FP haven't had remotely challenging dps checks in ages if ever, and reg warzones are a cluster**** where anything goes and anything works most of the time.

 

This is not to say that things shouldn't be fixed because a 14% spread is ridiculous, but that spread generally only affects the hardest content in the game. It isn't fair, but it is what it is.

Edited January 19, 2017 by DarthCognusSion

Even tho the Devs hate my sorc I still love him. He's always at least 62-67% cooler than the rest of the spods in the group.

 

They can rob the force out of our zaps, and steal the horror out of our deathly-creepies, but they can't touch our panache.

If you're playing heals you're fine. It seems heal sage is even more broken.

Part of soloing FPs is gear. Something that people often forget when a new xpac hits is that they were at top gear before, but their gear now is not top anymore so soloing will be harder. The only thing that Sorc dps being in a bad state should affect is ranked PvP and NiM. Anything other than that is player error or lack of gear. Sorc dps is more than capable of meeting dps checks in HM ops, HM FP haven't had remotely challenging dps checks in ages if ever, and reg warzones are a cluster**** where anything goes and anything works most of the time.

 

This is not to say that things shouldn't be fixed because a 14% spread is ridiculous, but that spread generally only affects the hardest content in the game. It isn't fair, but it is what it is.

 

reg WZ, a sorc always does pretty good as dps or heals.

 

As DPS, either you rotationnally DoT spread with madness, or you launch a Chain Lightning every 9 seconds that will hit more than one target. Just don't try solo guarding a node, a merc comes by that knows how to use its net, he's going to murder you before help can get there, but hanging around the brawl's outskirt you can get pretty good results, and thats including all the time sorc was in a bad place, even 1.0 post hybrid nerf.

 

 

I kinda disagree with you with HM tough. Not that a team that has a sorc dps will not clear things, they will. But assume a team of 4 sorc dps, even with 242 gear, I'm not sure you'll clear HM styrak dps check. with 5 dps, it takes roughly 7.5k effective dps per dps to clear it, so at 4? With a theorical dummy dps of 8.5k, even factoring in the 2nd dragon taking extra damage I'm not 100% sure you have the dps to clear it. Half geared mercs will outdps you at any rate, so better not have a big ego

 

Still a perfectly played lightning sorc will always be better than someone who has no clue about a FoTM spec they are trying to play. I shelved my sorc for 5.0 mostly because of the CXP system, has its always been one of my played regularly toon since 1.0, but with the "use ONE toon forget the others" system, I chose my sin as a main so I could both melee dps and tank, which I prefer to healing as far as playstyle goes.

I like playing my TK sage. The thump-thump sound is much more exciting then both the

pewpewpewpew sounds from my "slinger", and bang-bang-bang from my sniper.

 

Kinda wish telekinetic wave was instant by default, and not having to bug-trigger it though.

Or made instant by 2 telekinetic bursts, or 1 turbulence, simular to snipers followthrough.