I sincerely hope endgame healers in this game are more than healbots. as in, if no one needs healing then do some damage cuz otherwise you're not contributing all you could.

Healers in FFXIV have a lot more downtime than healers in SWTOR.

Obviously you should weave some DPS in, but you'll be spending a lot more time (and mana/resources) actually healing.

Healers are kinda a joke in 14.

Healers in FFXIV have a lot more downtime than healers in SWTOR.

 

Obviously you should weave some DPS in, but you'll be spending a lot more time (and mana/resources) actually healing.

 

Healers are kinda a joke in 14.

If you think healers are a joke in 14 you havent played 14 much at all. thats a very huge level of ignorance showing.

Healers are amazing in FFXIV. in fact I wish all MMOs would learn from how FF14 does healers. they arent lame like in so many games.

I don´t play FF so I don´t know what numbers they put out but as sorc heal with Endless Offensive Set + Tactical you can do good dps in PvP and Flashpoints. (In Master Operations it depends on the boss).

I had 500 k dps and 5 mio. heals in a warzone - thats ok I think.

Don´t really know about the other healers though. Merc probably does good damage too but operative has proably to be in melee range to do good dps.

I just can say that you´ll do more dmg as healer in SWTOR than in ESO - because healers there sadly are a joke too.

Actually ESO healers arent a joke its just DPS are way way overpowered in comparison.

ESO's real issue is tanks, ESO tanks do jack **** for damage. a healer can put out at least significant damage while healing.

in FF14 a good healers dps will be around half as much as a dps. same for tanks.

Actually ESO healers arent a joke its just DPS are way way overpowered in comparison.

When a healer is not required in a master dungeon - yes they are a joke. Also they are just Buff B****es for dps.

in FF14 a good healers dps will be around half as much as a dps. same for tanks.

Sounds like a questionable game design - how is the balancing in PvP?

Questionable game design is when healers are healbots who do insignificant damage and tanks are boring lame and painful to play turtles.

FF14 is the most balanced MMO currently running. Balance issues in FF14 are minor compared to any other MMO, every single class is viable in the most hardcore content- which goes well beyond anything in SWTOR or most games today.

PVP is also far more balanced, becuase its an entirely seperate system with seperate skill sets where gear and level dont matter. an even playing field- the only way to make pvp truly fun in a game mostly based in PVE.

When a healer is not required in a master dungeon - yes they are a joke. Also they are just Buff B****es for dps.

if you mean Vet dungeons, that only applies to the oldest ones with good groups. and you are entirely wrong. it's called modern game design, they honestly should have gone all the way and ditched the entire idea of "healers" and "tanks" the half assed job is the problem.

This tiny minded obsession with the idea that MMOs need to conform to the WoW standard is why the genre is dying.

If you think healers are a joke in 14 you havent played 14 much at all. thats a very huge level of ignorance showing.

 

Healers are amazing in FFXIV. in fact I wish all MMOs would learn from how FF14 does healers. they arent lame like in so many games.

I mained a White Mage my entire playtime through FF14. I haven't done everything in the game but I'm at about 500 hours now.

WHM is incredibly boring. More than 50% of your time in any dungeon is just spamming your 1 cast attack, then refreshing your DoT.

 

if you mean Vet dungeons, that only applies to the oldest ones with good groups. and you are entirely wrong. it's called modern game design, they honestly should have gone all the way and ditched the entire idea of "healers" and "tanks" the half assed job is the problem.

I mean the hardest and newest dungeons in ESO were doable with selfhealing dps. Thats when I quit.

Ditching healers and tanks is not a good idea. It´s these roles that make the game interesting.

I love healing - I don´t want to play dps. If you like FF better thats fine. It doesn´t appeal to me.

I mean the hardest and newest dungeons in ESO were doable with selfhealing dps. Thats when I quit.

Ditching healers and tanks is not a good idea. It´s these roles that make the game interesting.

 

I love healing - I don´t want to play dps. If you like FF better thats fine. It doesn´t appeal to me.

I wouldn't hate DPSing as a healer if it meant actually DPSing.

In the context of FFXIV, all three healers have two main damage abilities -- a hardcast, and a damage over time. (There is also an AOE - if you're a WHM, for example, you'll spend every engagement spamming your AOE 3-4 times before you heal because it will stun the trash mobs.)

That's not engaging. It's just time filler, because you have so much downtime where you don't actually need to heal.

I mained a White Mage my entire playtime through FF14. I haven't done everything in the game but I'm at about 500 hours now.

 

WHM is incredibly boring. More than 50% of your time in any dungeon is just spamming your 1 cast attack, then refreshing your DoT.

I'm sorry you find the best things boring. maybe that's why you're here?

No class in FFXIV is boring. the only thing that could be described as boring is leveling content before level 50ish. game has a slow learning curve.

I mean the hardest and newest dungeons in ESO were doable with selfhealing dps. Thats when I quit.

Ditching healers and tanks is not a good idea. It´s these roles that make the game interesting.

 

I love healing - I don´t want to play dps. If you like FF better thats fine. It doesn´t appeal to me.

What I like best is when games ditch the idea of the MMO trinity entirely or almost so. it's an obsolete concept which keeps the genre struggling. if everyone tries to be WoW, then almost all will fail.

FYI before WoW came and ruined the genre forever, games didnt usually have dedicated tanks and healers.

I'm sorry you find the best things boring. maybe that's why you're here?

 

No class in FFXIV is boring. the only thing that could be described as boring is leveling content before level 50ish. game has a slow learning curve.

Uh, okay.

What I like best is when games ditch the idea of the MMO trinity entirely or almost so. it's an obsolete concept which keeps the genre struggling. if everyone tries to be WoW, then almost all will fail.

 

FYI before WoW came and ruined the genre forever, games didnt usually have dedicated tanks and healers.

You mean Everquest. The first one.

I'm sorry you find the best things boring. maybe that's why you're here?

 

No class in FFXIV is boring. the only thing that could be described as boring is leveling content before level 50ish. game has a slow learning curve.

And why exactly are you here, posting about another game?

Go back to the better game, no one is gonna miss you here.

And why exactly are you here, posting about another game?

Go back to the better game, no one is gonna miss you here.

My only problem with the OP is they're being rude. Just because someone didn't enjoy FFXIV as much as they did doesn't mean they're boring or they prefer boring games. I played FFXIV for awhile (mostly white mage as I enjoy healing). I played most of the classes to 50 and got their special weapons (I never did finish the tanks and I haven't done any of the newer classes except ninja). I leveled up all of the crafting and gathering classes to 50 (and associated questlines). But it was a game I mostly enjoyed playing with friends and my friends all stopped playing. I didn't like playing FFXIV solo so I stopped playing as well.

I enjoy playing SWTOR solo and I enjoy playing it with friends so ... best of both worlds.

I also don't understand so much why the OP seems to detest trinity roles and yet gushes over FFXIV which has trinity roles. I mean, when I played and queued for a dungeon it was as ... healer/dps/tank. Maybe they've changed it since then, I don't know. It has been awhile since I've bothered to log in.

There is a sort of "4th class" though that usually gets lumped in with dps and really shouldn't. That would be the bard. EQ1, EQ2, and FFXIV all had bard classes which were party support through buffs. They could do decent dps (except the EQ2 troubadour heh) but their primary purpose was to use their buffs to make everyone else in the group better. That might be an interesting concept for SWTOR to explore if ... IF ... they ever try to add additional classes. I think the closest thing in the SWTOR universe would be Battle Meditation which both Bastila and Satele could do.

FYI before WoW came and ruined the genre forever, games didnt usually have dedicated tanks and healers.

Impressive! This is likely the most incorrect statement I have ever read on the internet. Congratulations.

If anything the Trinity was *much worse* in EQ1 and EQ2 than WoW.

In SWG all the professions I tried felt kind of bad at their roles, weirdly. Still, there were definite roles you got slotted in to.

WoW really opened things up for mixed role classes in comparison. The same was true to a lesser extent for DAoC (where Bards were super interesting).

You mean Everquest. The first one.

^^ this

The Trinity has always been here; if anything WoW made things *more* friendly.

There is a sort of "4th class" though that usually gets lumped in with dps and really shouldn't. [...bards as example...]

Yeah. In EQ you had classes that were actually pure support (like Enchanters - ridiculously hard to level one solo, almost pure support), and then hybrids like Bards and Druids, that weren't as good as the other dedicated classes but could do more and thus were great to solo and uusually good if not optimal in groups. DAoC took Bards to the next level.

I'm sorry you find the best things boring. maybe that's why you're here?

 

No class in FFXIV is boring. the only thing that could be described as boring is leveling content before level 50ish. game has a slow learning curve.

And why are you here? You spend so much time bashing swtor, and praising ff14. Do you work for them? Because if you are trying to recruit people you are doing a bad job,

My only problem with the OP is they're being rude. Just because someone didn't enjoy FFXIV as much as they did doesn't mean they're boring or they prefer boring games. I played FFXIV for awhile (mostly white mage as I enjoy healing). I played most of the classes to 50 and got their special weapons (I never did finish the tanks and I haven't done any of the newer classes except ninja). I leveled up all of the crafting and gathering classes to 50 (and associated questlines). But it was a game I mostly enjoyed playing with friends and my friends all stopped playing. I didn't like playing FFXIV solo so I stopped playing as well.

I also explained what I didn't like about WHM and healing in general in FFXIV (as well as saying that I have 500+ hours) and OP just said "lol you probably just couldn't get past level 50" (which all the ardent defenders say when you criticize FFXIV, for some reason).

It's just frustrating; I didn't even think I was being overly-critical of FFXIV. All I said was I'd rather not have a game where a healer "DPSing" is spamming their one hardcast ability for most of the encounter, which is what all healing in anything less than Savage comes down to.

Once you're at cap WHM boils down to using your lily heals, keeping regen + benison up, keeping up Dia, casting Assize on cooldown, and then spamming Glare.

The majority of your time spent healing is casting a single, hardcast spell. And that's not fun gameplay!

And OP mentions that the healers are balanced, and this is true, but this is mostly because they've been normalized. Aside from very slight differences (usually with respect to AOE damage) the healers are very, very similar, and their core gameplay boils down to spamming that same single, hardcast ability. (I guess SCH is slightly different because you have an insta-cast DPS ability.)

f anything the Trinity was *much worse* in EQ1 and EQ2 than WoW.

 

In SWG all the professions were kind of bad at their roles, weirdly. Still, there were definite roles you got slotted in to.

 

WoW really opened things up for mixed role classes in comparison. The same was true to a lesser extent for DAoC (where Bards were super interesting).

.

Maybe this is ignorance, but I really struggle to get the fun of MMOs when you don't have dedicated tanks or healers. Like, what fun is a boss-fight if it's just going to randomly switch between targets and smash you?

Maybe this is ignorance, but I really struggle to get the fun of MMOs when you don't have dedicated tanks or healers. Like, what fun is a boss-fight if it's just going to randomly switch between targets and smash you?

I agree to some extent!

The problem with balance in some of the older MMOs was more that this extended to the rest of the game outside of boss fights. In EQ as the canonical example of where the Trinity-reliance was probably at its worst (for large-sub western MMOs anyway), if you were trying to solo or small-group a Warrior without a dedicated healer, there was a ridiculous amount of downtime. But they were the best tanks (well, along with Pallies anyway) and would definitely squeeze out other classes in groups. Similarly, it was ridiculous to try and solo or an Enchanter - the class was almost entirely CC and support. But they were absolutely required for raids and serious fights.

Conversely, it was really easy to level a Druid solo. And fun. But it was never the best at anything it did *besides* soloing, so for raids, you were literally a taxi to bring others to it and then an also-ran during the raid, second-line healing and dotting, often dead on the floor for much of it because no other healer is going to waste heals on you.

During the big fights, it was Tanks/Heals/DPS all the way with also some chanters doing CC and mana buffs.

Maybe this is ignorance, but I really struggle to get the fun of MMOs when you don't have dedicated tanks or healers. Like, what fun is a boss-fight if it's just going to randomly switch between targets and smash you?

It's not a matter of ignorance, but preference. The OP is treating their opinions as if it were objective truths. This is not honest.

I also prefer the trinity because I've played games without that trinity in place like GW2 and I didn't care for it. It means a lack of definition and the boss mechanics suffer from it. Now I will say they've instituted raids in the meantime and there is some form of trinity there now. And this is the point. When you want raids that have some level of complexity to it, then there need to be different roles.

Sure, the trinity does come with downsides because you can be waiting for a tank or healer when forming a group but I like healing. I stopped playing GW2 among other reasons cause there is no place for a dedicated healer in GW2 outside of raids and even in raids it's not the same.

Healers in this game have DPS specs as well. You can easily switch between them and as such you can play DPS or Heal. That's the solution in this game for when you want to level more quickly, do veteran FPs etc.

What the OP is suggesting, essentially rewrites the whole combat system and encounters with it. It's not realistic to do that. So whatever crusade he/she's on, it's not going to happen and I'm happy for that.

I'm really not happy with what's been done to healers in this game for the last 5½ years. I remember thinking that unlike most alternatives, playing a healer solo was actually great fun in swtor, but.. over the years the biggest changes to healers all made them much, much less interesting for anything other than bringing them along in a trinity group (which I still enjoy a lot, mind you), but OP's preferences do not sound like improvements to me, and would only leave us with even less interesting healers.

The basic premise that you should be doing damage when you're not healing is one I can absolutely get behind, though. No point in standing around or healing when there's no need for it. I stopped watching that video after two minutes because it seems to just be stating the obvious a lot. If you're sufficiently familiar with your role, you can judge likely opportune moments for adding damage as they arrive. If you're sufficiently familiar with the content, you'll be able see these moments coming.

It's not some sort of revelation.