Maybe I'm weird... maybe I just don't understand; but why are the Juggernauts (from what I see in the datamined info) getting beat up? I think Juggernauts are far from the best class, and they do decent DPS and they have some perks, like being able to swap to a tank stance and taunt if things go south in a raid... we had a tank go down once in Toth and Zorn and I taunted Toth off the other tank to save the raid, and it's something I enjoy doing... but why are they making the class look bad?

I've started power-leveling a Marauder, Assassin, BH, and Sniper, hoping I can catch a Flavor of the month in there.

P.S.: I do know that the datamining isn't 100%, and that it's not released yet so things can change; I'm just wondering WHY the devs would think the Juggernaut needs a nerf, and not a buff? Ideas? LOL at me? etc?

Post was taken down before I got a good look at it, but mostly it seems like Rage is getting a nerfbat, immortal buffs and I didn't see for vengeance.

Also if what you are looking for is a FoTM class, I'll tend to brush aside any balancing discussion you might try to strike up following this post, since its not looking for balance, but for the "EZ mode" OP class.

Learn a class, stick to it and adapt.

What I saw was about a 5% decrease to rage/focus's single target (16% redux to smash, which us about 30% of total).

Also saw potential buffs in single target stuff.

While I do love the aoe of sweep/smash, I won't mind reducing the reliance on one skill that can sometimes be problematic to use.

Maybe I'm weird... maybe I just don't understand; but why are the Juggernauts (from what I see in the datamined info) getting beat up? I think Juggernauts are far from the best class, and they do decent DPS and they have some perks, like being able to swap to a tank stance and taunt if things go south in a raid... we had a tank go down once in Toth and Zorn and I taunted Toth off the other tank to save the raid, and it's something I enjoy doing... but why are they making the class look bad?

 

I've started power-leveling a Marauder, Assassin, BH, and Sniper, hoping I can catch a Flavor of the month in there.

 

 

P.S.: I do know that the datamining isn't 100%, and that it's not released yet so things can change; I'm just wondering WHY the devs would think the Juggernaut needs a nerf, and not a buff? Ideas? LOL at me? etc?

What are you talking about? Rage is getting nerfed. (Good). And vengeance is getting buffed. Do some more research before posting false info

What are you talking about? Rage is getting nerfed. (Good). And vengeance is getting buffed. Do some more research before posting false info

Both of those sound good to me...vengeance rocks!

What are you talking about? Rage is getting nerfed. (Good). And vengeance is getting buffed. Do some more research before posting false info

I didn't see many vengeance buffs to be honest, and a big nerf in the form of savagery.

I didn't see many vengeance buffs to be honest, and a big nerf in the form of savagery.

look harder.

sunder went from 4-20 percent

10% dmage buf too impale

10% damage buff overall

better rage management

and we can use vicious throw outside execution phases

so ya, ill take all that over the savagery nerf in a heart beat!

look harder.

 

sunder went from 4-20 percent

 

10% dmage buf too impale

10% damage buff overall

better rage management

and we can use vicious throw outside execution phases

 

so ya, ill take all that over the savagery nerf in a heart beat!

Sundering Throw from what I saw on Hater. Not Sundering Assualt. So basically you can start off a fight with your stacks on.

Visious Throw....great that we can use it outside execution but theres no bonus to crit with it.....So its not all that great as I can see. Sentinels/Maras get the same ability. Thats means you'll need more Rage building in your normal rotation and now Annihilation/Rage spec will be better at the execution phase than us.

As far as the Savagery nerf goes.....well the reason that Vengeance never had any Surge talents was because he had 2 (more or less) auto-crit powers. So we get a flat 10% damage bonus rather extra Crit/Surge, ok I'll take that.

Not saying this isn't a buff or a nerf. Quite frankly I think I'd need to see how it plays first, but I'm really going to miss my auto-crits. Whenever someone got down below 30% I always knew I had them.

The real problem as I see is using Mauul's style of dps to actually get higher results you become very Focus/Rage starved and aside from an extra resource bump when you refresh Master Strike/Ravage theres not much I can see thats helping with that. And thats before you start trying to juggle in Viscious Throws into the normal rotation.

That and I say they should have changed Plasma Brand/Shatter tick every second for smaller ticks but deal the damage damage over the 12 seconds. That would have made a good impact without making us juggle more keys and have to reevaluate our entire build/rotation.

Final Thoughts: Does anyone else think this ability that gives 3% bonus to damage for 6 seconds is kinda well annoying. I like extra damage but 3% for 6 seconds .... seems like a lot of micromanaging for a very small bump in dps, unless its a passive/proc. How it was presented seemed like it was an active to me.

look harder.

 

sunder went from 4-20 percent

 

10% dmage buf too impale

10% damage buff overall

better rage management

and we can use vicious throw outside execution phases

 

so ya, ill take all that over the savagery nerf in a heart beat!

God I cant wait

Sundering Throw from what I saw on Hater. Not Sundering Assualt. So basically you can start off a fight with your stacks on.

 

Visious Throw....great that we can use it outside execution but theres no bonus to crit with it.....So its not all that great as I can see. Sentinels/Maras get the same ability. Thats means you'll need more Rage building in your normal rotation and now Annihilation/Rage spec will be better at the execution phase than us.

 

As far as the Savagery nerf goes.....well the reason that Vengeance never had any Surge talents was because he had 2 (more or less) auto-crit powers. So we get a flat 10% damage bonus rather extra Crit/Surge, ok I'll take that.

 

Not saying this isn't a buff or a nerf. Quite frankly I think I'd need to see how it plays first, but I'm really going to miss my auto-crits. Whenever someone got down below 30% I always knew I had them.

 

The real problem as I see is using Mauul's style of dps to actually get higher results you become very Focus/Rage starved and aside from an extra resource bump when you refresh Master Strike/Ravage theres not much I can see thats helping with that. And thats before you start trying to juggle in Viscious Throws into the normal rotation.

 

That and I say they should have changed Plasma Brand/Shatter tick every second for smaller ticks but deal the damage damage over the 12 seconds. That would have made a good impact without making us juggle more keys and have to reevaluate our entire build/rotation.

 

Final Thoughts: Does anyone else think this ability that gives 3% bonus to damage for 6 seconds is kinda well annoying. I like extra damage but 3% for 6 seconds .... seems like a lot of micromanaging for a very small bump in dps, unless its a passive/proc. How it was presented seemed like it was an active to me.

i can't believe how you're whinning about this. Go look on darth hater right now. Look again, REAL hard. YEah our auto crits we're fun, but your gonna whine cuz in replacement of them, we are getting better bleeds, 1 more rage after we proc ravage, full stacks of armor debuff from sundering throw, viscious throw during all stages of the fight, and 10 percent damage buff. Do the math, the highest parse a jug can do is 1950 on a dummy. multiply that by 10 percent and its well over 2000, even without our auto crits from scream.

this class is getting arguably the best dps buffs of any class so far, and your whinning about auto crits lololol this is why a lot of developers quit bioware this year after the first year. Cuz some people just whine about stupid stuff.

i can't believe how you're whinning about this. Go look on darth hater right now. Look again, REAL hard. YEah our auto crits we're fun, but your gonna whine cuz in replacement of them, we are getting better bleeds, 1 more rage after we proc ravage, full stacks of armor debuff from sundering throw, viscious throw during all stages of the fight, and 10 percent damage buff. Do the math, the highest parse a jug can do is 1950 on a dummy. multiply that by 10 percent and its well over 2000, even without our auto crits from scream.

 

this class is getting arguably the best dps buffs of any class so far, and your whinning about auto crits lololol this is why a lot of developers quit bioware this year after the first year. Cuz some people just whine about stupid stuff.

You reread what I wrote. No where did I complain, say this sucks or I can't believe they did this. I said that I'm going to miss the autocrits....cuz lets admit it they were great and that change would put most Annhilation/Rage Specs ahead of us in usefulness in the execute phase. I also said I'd take the changes over them. I actually said I'm not calling any of this a buff or nerf, but rather I'd actually need to play better evaulate.

My point being that the changes are substantial and will require reevaluation of present builds and potentially gear set ups. I also mused that Focus/Rage generation would probably be harder with the changes given we have an extra ability to throw in and not much has been done on Focus/Rage generation from what I read. (That was before more info was posted on how Viscious Throw would be free ) I also thought that PB/Shatter could have used a change for quality of life to achieve some of the results they were going for within the current framework. Thats it.

Stop throwing a hissy fit over some commentary.

You reread what I wrote. No where did I complain, say this sucks or I can't believe they did this. I said that I'm going to miss the autocrits....cuz lets admit it they were great and that change would put most Annhilation/Rage Specs ahead of us in usefulness in the execute phase. I also said I'd take the changes over them. I actually said I'm not calling any of this a buff or nerf, but rather I'd actually need to play better evaulate.

 

My point being that the changes are substantial and will require reevaluation of present builds and potentially gear set ups. I also mused that Focus/Rage generation would probably be harder with the changes given we have an extra ability to throw in and not much has been done on Focus/Rage generation from what I read. (That was before more info was posted on how Viscious Throw would be free ) I also thought that PB/Shatter could have used a change for quality of life to achieve some of the results they were going for within the current framework. Thats it.

 

Stop throwing a hissy fit over some commentary.

lol you don't need to play to see that this is a buff. if u do, than thats just ridiculous but hey suit yourself

lol you don't need to play to see that this is a buff. if u do, than thats just ridiculous but hey suit yourself

Is it a buff? Overall yeah, we gain more than we lose. Are we going to do more damage? Clearly. But I'm going to want to play it and evaluate before I say how good/bad/inadaquate it is. Some things I really like on paper, somethings that I'm sad to see go. The class doesn't exist in a vaccum, we're going to have to see how the other class changes affect the game as whole. Especially considering how you're always the one complaining how Juggs are behind Mara's and generally whining in close to every thread Jugg/Guardian thread I've visited. What if after all the changes Juggs can parse 2K but Maras start doing 2.3K or higher? (I haven't check out all the class changes ). So yeah I want to evaluate things.

What I don't like you twisting my words/meaning and then going on page rant and insult me. Anyway didn't you say you gave up on Juggs are rolling on your Mara?

Is it a buff? Overall yeah, we gain more than we lose. Are we going to do more damage? Clearly. But I'm going to want to play it and evaluate before I say how good/bad/inadaquate it is. Some things I really like on paper, somethings that I'm sad to see go. The class doesn't exist in a vaccum, we're going to have to see how the other class changes affect the game as whole. Especially considering how you're always the one complaining how Juggs are behind Mara's and generally whining in close to every thread Jugg/Guardian thread I've visited. What if after all the changes Juggs can parse 2K but Maras start doing 2.3K or higher? (I haven't check out all the class changes ). So yeah I want to evaluate things.

 

What I don't like you twisting my words/meaning and then going on page rant and insult me. Anyway didn't you say you gave up on Juggs are rolling on your Mara?

lol aww i'm flattered i've made that big an impression on the forums, thanks for noticing.

yeah obviously if marauders started parsing 2.3 k that would suck ***. I dont think they will tho, i mean annihilation dps wise went untouched (from what we know) yet carnage is getting a nice dps buff.

and yeah damn right i'm gonna whine if marauders pull 300k more than jugs. It's incredibly frustrating when your fav class is vastly inferior to another. I think we can all agree on that.

as far as giving up on my jug, i did until i saw the datamined info leaked.

Anyone regarding the datamined information as gospel at this point deserves the disappointment they're going to inevitably get.

I also highly, highly doubt Juggs/Guards are going to take the Premier Melee DPS crown from Maras/Sents.

Anyone regarding the datamined information as gospel at this point deserves the disappointment they're going to inevitably get.

 

I also highly, highly doubt Juggs/Guards are going to take the Premier Melee DPS crown from Maras/Sents.

If these buff are actually true, i think i'll be pulling more then most maras/sents. But thats just me.

If these buff are actually true, i think i'll be pulling more then most maras/sents. But thats just me.

Though do you think you'll be pulling even more on your Mara?

If these buff are actually true, i think i'll be pulling more then most maras/sents. But thats just me.

They might be true for a week or two on PTS, though I doubt even that. And they might remain true when they get pushed to the servers. But there's simply no way Juggernauts are going to wind up as a more effective straight-up DPS class than Marauders. It'd make Marauders superfluous and run counter to what the devs had said from the start.

If these buff are actually true, i think i'll be pulling more then most maras/sents. But thats just me.

mauull, go to darthhater.com the buffs are listed there. Carnage is getting a buff as well but just to massacre, and scream, whereas jugs are getting a full 10percent buff

so yeah marauders will pull more, as they should, cuz they can only dps. But the gap will be much smaller than it is now

They might be true for a week or two on PTS, though I doubt even that. And they might remain true when they get pushed to the servers. But there's simply no way Juggernauts are going to wind up as a more effective straight-up DPS class than Marauders. It'd make Marauders superfluous and run counter to what the devs had said from the start.

You mean where they said all dps trees are full dps and all will operate within 5% of each other? Or are you referring to some other statement which was made by certain players in the beta where the claimed they wouldn't play the game if their pure dps class didn't out dps everything?

From the looks of it, they're bringing everything in line with how it's supposed to be. If your tree say dps, you operate just the same as any other dps. It's just your utility and target type that changes.

You mean where they said all dps trees are full dps and all will operate within 5% of each other? Or are you referring to some other statement which was made by certain players in the beta where the claimed they wouldn't play the game if their pure dps class didn't out dps everything?

 

From the looks of it, they're bringing everything in line with how it's supposed to be. If your tree say dps, you operate just the same as any other dps. It's just your utility and target type that changes.

i could not agree more on how dps should operate than how you just put it. all dps tree's should operate the same, with the differences of utility (e.g. force push, chilling scream, and soresu form for jugs and raid buffs for marauders)