My guild got me while I was playing my infil shadow to do SM, instead of waiting for me to get my watchman, tells me all I need to know about the ease of story mode. When we did hard, they made me get the watchman. Neither are overly difficult, but someone who can't follow simple instructions to get free gear and haven't done enough 50 content to get relics, ear and implants, then I don't really know if I want to depend on them following instructions that can be the difference between success and a wipe.

 

In a spank and tank fight, not overly concerned about gear, but in a fight that requires movement, attacking different targets at different times, requires planing attacks to get max spike dps at certain times and requires some planning on when to use defensive cooldowns, knowing a player is at least somewhat competent enough to complete a few dailies and flashpoints is important.

 

The unfairness isn't on the group kicking IMO, it is on the person that enters a group unprepared. Personally outside of my guild and whatever group I am in I owe no one anything just because they are a subscriber. I pay my money too. I will help them when I can, but I don't owe them anything, I just do it to be nice.

Edited February 19, 2013 by mikebevo

I ran HM 8M Xeno last night, we had to pick up a pug tank, he came into the group with gear modded towards strength, barely hitting 22k hp and using a strength stim, we gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to down the boss, after 3 wipes we told him sorry he wasn't pulling his weight as he was always the first one to die and didn't seem to be grasping the mechanics after we had explained them mulitple times, we had a guildie switch to a tank (he was trying to get the helixes on his dps) and we downed the boss on the next try, def don't think it's rude or mean to gear check people and or remove them if they don't match up.

Ultimately, people play the game to have fun and the people who own the game run it to make money. Once the game becomes more work than real work to play, most people will opt for other activities. As for myself, being a casual player and a subscriber, the game is starting to become more trouble than it is worth. Endlessly grinding for gear is becoming an exercise in diminishing returns. Also, the gree gear and weapons do not appear to me to be worth the effort? In any case, it remains to be seen if the game is viable in the long term without casual players such as myself.

Ultimately, people play the game to have fun and the people who own the game run it to make money. Once the game becomes more work than real work to play, most people will opt for other activities. As for myself, being a casual player and a subscriber, the game is starting to become more trouble than it is worth. Endlessly grinding for gear is becoming an exercise in diminishing returns. Also, the gree gear and weapons do not appear to me to be worth the effort? In any case, it remains to be seen if the game is viable in the long term without casual players such as myself.

 

These types of statements sadden me. While it is any players right to decide when the game is not worth the money or time when posted in a discussion such as this it send the following message:

 

"Well fine if that's the way its gonna be I'm gonna take my ball and go home."

 

Yes, the game needs casuals to survive but coddle-ling to the demands of under geared players who are effectively asking someone else to use the fruits of their labor (IE: Gear or Knowledge) to compensate for their lack there of would create a social standard in which instant gratification is the norm and hard work is not rewarded. That's not the type of game that SHOULD survive.

 

On a related but side note, My Mother-in-Law plays this game and is a member of one of my raid groups. She isn't the best and sometimes is slow to pick up on things but we accept that about her because shes fun to raid with. If you are a pug I do not have that connection to fall on when you aren't appropriate for the task so the answer is no. If my 55+ Years old mother-in-law can get 63 gear then anyone can.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Saiyanbob

These types of statements sadden me. While it is any players right to decide when the game is not worth the money or time when posted in a discussion such as this it send the following message:

 

"Well fine if that's the way its gonna be I'm gonna take my ball and go home."

 

Yes, the game needs casuals to survive but coddle-ling to the demands of under geared players who are effectively asking someone else to use the fruits of their labor (IE: Gear or Knowledge) to compensate for their lack there of would create a social standard in which instant gratification is the norm and hard work is not rewarded. That's not the type of game that SHOULD survive.

 

On a related but side note, My Mother-in-Law plays this game and is a member of one of my raid groups. She isn't the best and sometimes is slow to pick up on things but we accept that about her because shes fun to raid with. If you are a pug I do not have that connection to fall on when you aren't appropriate for the task so the answer is no. If my 55+ Years old mother-in-law can get 63 gear then anyone can.

 

Well said there

 

to the OP I think everyone has been in your position at least once in this game. One of the reason among them that you may have been kicked from the ops group maybe.

1) some of the fights (ads and boss) deal out a fairly big chuck of dps and your gear its up to the lvl that you wouldnt instant die there by taking up a spot for someone else that took the time to look at the fight mechanics and or take the time and grind up their so its on par or above par for the ops

Edited February 20, 2013 by DarthObelisk

 

Yes, the game needs casuals to survive but coddle-ling to the demands of under geared players who are effectively asking someone else to use the fruits of their labor (IE: Gear or Knowledge) to compensate for their lack there of would create a social standard in which instant gratification is the norm and hard work is not rewarded. That's not the type of game that SHOULD survive.

.

 

I think you bring up an excellent point. Sadly this is a microcosm of our society, where people believe they are ENTITLED to the same reward as those who work hard, spend time, and EARN it.

 

It's a game, its a good game, but it requires a lot of time to gear up to the highest levels. Unfortunately there are always going to be people who can't or don't want to put in that time to complete the necessary steps that will allow them opportunity for the reward they seek. They want the short cut, regardless if it comes at the expense of others.

I will sympathise with this post because I was kicked from a group last night for being under geared.

 

My marauder has over 1700 strength, one campaign armoring and the rest rakata, columi MH, BH OH, BH implants and DG relics. Seriously?

I will sympathise with this post because I was kicked from a group last night for being under geared.

 

My marauder has over 1700 strength, one campaign armoring and the rest rakata, columi MH, BH OH, BH implants and DG relics. Seriously?

An operation or world boss? Which?

An operation or world boss? Which?

 

16M xeno HM - that's what this thread is about right.

Ultimately, people play the game to have fun and the people who own the game run it to make money. Once the game becomes more work than real work to play, most people will opt for other activities. As for myself, being a casual player and a subscriber, the game is starting to become more trouble than it is worth. Endlessly grinding for gear is becoming an exercise in diminishing returns. Also, the gree gear and weapons do not appear to me to be worth the effort? In any case, it remains to be seen if the game is viable in the long term without casual players such as myself.

If gear is not one of your priorities, then why worry about the gree event? The entire reason I am doing it (even doing the PVP section which I loathe) is to get a lightsaber, because it is bound to legacy, meaning I can ship hilts between toons. Those players not around for other events may need the armor and blasters to. However I have those covered.

 

From my experience, gear is ridiculously easy to get in this game. Besides the Dread Guard Relics, I haven’t really grind that much myself and with Section X daily comms reward even that is fast and easy to accomplish. I have 4 toons at level 50 and all 4 are Campaign/Black Hole geared or better, only one is in a progression team which is a sawbones. That may be the difference; Tanks and Healers may have an easier job gearing up alts and less of a grind, because they can actually get into Operations, Flashpoints and Events faster than DPS. Funny thing is I did 8-man SM Xeno and HM Xeno last week, and neither was on my main sawbones, but she was the reason my sentinel and shadow were geared well enough to go.

 

My marauder has over 1700 strength, one campaign armoring and the rest rakata, columi MH, BH OH, BH implants and DG relics. Seriously?

The columi hilt would concern some in HM, sure that would cause some to take a second look at the rest of your gear. Did they have other marauders? If they didn’t have at least few others, I would have fought for you for no other reason than Bloodthirst during the core phase.

Directly speaking about undergeard players that think they are geared enough for Xenoanalyst, I joined in a pug group last night in a 16m HM with my shadow as one of the tanks (Even though you really only need 2 tanks, this group decided to go with 3 so we could have the 3rd tank pick up the adds while the other 2 tanks focused on the tank swaps).

 

While the group was filling, I noticed that one of the players only had 15.6k hp. After inspecting him, he was wearing a mix of 49 greens, 47 blues and tionese. After questioning them, he said that they were in an earlier team and had no problems. After telling him the reason he had no problems was because he was carried threw the entire thing, he started chastising me and a bunch of others saying they didn't know what they were talking about... Needless to say he was kicked from the group.

Here is something that I do not understand. Why are there always posts about getting kicked from something due to gear and yet the posters are always up in arms thinking they are geared enough? Let us forget the fact that they are or are not and move to simple group mechanics. If the ops leader does not want you in your group, you simple are not entitled to be there.

 

If the group has set a bar because they want things ran a specific way, respect that and either make your own group with your own rules or join another. I mean, hell guilds do this all the time with recruiting. You don't see post in regards to "I was not allowed to join "x" guild for "x" reason."

A group leader can do whatever they want, but just putting "geared" in chat isn't really specific enough to prevent people from getting confused.

Simple answer is to make your own ops group.

 

You can then be in charge of whatever grief, delays and general time wasting you do or do not want to be part of.

 

If the ops leader wants to play it safe then they will go for minimum risk, if your gear is something the ops leader is not happy with then that's just tough, its not your call and they are not obliged to take you.

16M xeno HM - that's what this thread is about right.

 

OP talks about xeno SM

I did this 7 time last week between SM and HM on a couple different toons. Every toon I brought to a group was at least close to full 61 and has been completely through HM TFB at least once. So take my opinion for what it's worth.

 

The OP talked about Story Mode. A 16 man group of fresh 50s with the free gear can do this. There are videos of 8 man teams doing 16 man mode. I've completed it with 10 (3 pugs). Story mode is there so content can be accessible to a larger amount of people and I think they did a good job with that.

 

Some people talked about HM version. This one I can see asking for a min gear requirement (beyond any level 50 gear) especially from tanks and healers. Tanks get hit hard and healer need to work to keep up. DPS I can see being less strict on as most 16 man groups will have 10-11 DPSer. But even with it being harder I was a part of completing twice with a group of 9+ pugs. Both time we wiped twice and killed it on the 3rd go. I also wiped 10 times in a different group before it got called off. So asking for a level of gear that makes the organizer comfortable is quite understandable. And the hazmat gear that drops from here are the highest ranked PvE gear in the game (even if some of the pieces are itemized poorly).

 

Now if you don’t like how someone else is running a group, then by all means put one together yourself. I know after seeing it last week multiple time I’ll probably be throwing together a couple of groups this time around so I can make sure to get all my desired runs in this week.

Made it through Xenoanalyst 2 Hardmode with 2 Recruit-Mk.2 DDs just 2 Days ago (one of them was my Guardian, having no gear, because I "robbed" him after I decided to make him a pure event- and crafting-char). Was no big deal, Xeno-2 was beaten first try with only one dead player (tank).

 

I`m German, so excuse my bad English, please...

Edited February 20, 2013 by JaborAnDubhar

Experienced/geared players are not obligated to carry fresh 50s through harder/any content.

 

Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that

Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that

I think you're missing the operative word in Radzkie's post: "carry"

 

Carrying someone through an operation isn't the same thing as helping someone.

 

I myself have run a tremendous amount of pugs both in flashpoints and operations. I've given advice (and taken advice), helped people (and been helped), worked with massively overgeared players and woefully undergeared onces.

 

And yet, the one thing that annoys me in the player that is expecting to be "carried"

 

It's an attitude thing. Had the OP come to the forums looking for advice, that's a different story. Instead he provided a poorly-written hard-to-read block of text whining about Nazi's.

 

See the difference?

Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that

 

There is a huge difference between carrying players and assisting them to improve. Nothing shuts me down from helping a person quicker than having them expect everything be handed to them. I'm more than happy to share what I know and what works for me. I've been fine with taking my over geared toons to lower FP/OP so a fresh 50 can get a jump start. But if they aren't trying to push themselves then why should I push for them?

 

Now I agree that people rush to judgment and just because they aren't putting up top flight numbers or holding agro quiet well enough in a very small sample size that they can get cast aside because "they are of no us to the group". Been on the short end of that stick before because I had an awful 1st night in a new guild. The ones who are willing to be a part of the community pick themselves up and get better and show that they have something to bring to the table. The ones who want to be carried find new people to carry them.

Don't worry last night on Shadowlands server someone was asking for WB's in Tionese gear...I laughed.

Some people talked about HM version. This one I can see asking for a min gear requirement (beyond any level 50 gear) especially from tanks and healers. Tanks get hit hard and healer need to work to keep up.

 

I agree with all of your post except for the part about healers needing gear... On my Sage, I healed HM TFB (8-man) with another Sage who was in unaugmented Columi gear. I definitely carried him through a lot of fights (doing 250k or more healing than him), but he did well enough that we only wiped twice in the entire Operation... and I even felt comfortable enough on some fights to slack off a little. Healers who have half a brain that functions can heal through almost any content as long as they have at least full Columi gear. The only fight they would struggle on is NiM Kephess, but by then I'm hoping they have more gear

 

On to the topic at hand... Honestly, this game was designed in a way that makes it so skill > gear for most PvE content; again, this is minus NiM Kephess because he was designed to be difficult. So, throwing someone out of STORY MODE content because they "lack" gear is extremely stupid, selfish, and not even worth defending. Repair costs went up? You shouldn't be wiping on 16-man SM content if you have at least 8 absolutely capable, over-geared players which it sounds like there were from the OP. If you do kick one person from 16m SM content for being "under-geared" then you're proving that you are the bad player, imo. It's SM content, the other guys aren't even carrying the under-geared guy because the SM content was designed specifically for the under-geared players!!!!! ... rofl

... So, throwing someone out of STORY MODE content because they "lack" gear is extremely stupid, selfish, and not even worth defending. ...

You make good points and I do understand where you're coming from.

 

But this particular statement stands out to me. I'd like to argue in the opposite direction.

 

Gear is so ridiculously easy to get, why would you want to group with someone who is too lazy / stupid to obtain it? Did you see the post about the tank and dps who were running a HM FP in level 40 gear? With free Tionese available? That's either someone who is purposefully downgearing for a challenge or is so clueless about how the game works that they're more likely to be a hazard than an asset.

 

How about the guy trying to pug SM EC in Tionese? SURE you can do it in Tionese with a good group. But it is So. Damn. Easy to obtain better gear, why does this guy not have any by the time he's asking to pug SM EC?

 

I go back to an earlier point I made. When I first hit level 50 I wanted to make sure I was contributing to the group and wouldn't be a drag. First operation I joined dropped me because my hp was too low. I didn't whine and moan. I ran some more HM FPs, got some more gear, and posted on the forum asking for advice on becoming a better player.

 

Isn't that a healthier attitude than, "those elitist creeps are being mean!"

Edited February 20, 2013 by Khevar

Well, I'm just glad that I found this thread just now.

 

'Cause I'm not a frequent player in SWTOR for a number of reasons. Damn, I still have only one lvl 50 char - my tankassin - with mix of Tionesse, old Champion, even some recruit gear. That was enough for usual PvE, while I was leveling up other chars...

 

So, I didn't play my tankassin from... mmm... November, I think. Then, the event come and I decided to take this char back to the action, with all this curious stuff...

 

First, I had to solo-tank 8m Xeno. Then, it was 16m Xeno. A couple of wampa WB's...

 

And then I've encountered one of your kind, ppl... I had to switch to DPS mode (for a wampa again) just because one of the laughing, hard-worked, blah-blah-blah, kept whining for about 20 minutes that we need more tanks because "that guy still running outdated PvP gear..."

 

Ok, it's pretty late at my place and I'll try to sum up - in Gree event, Wampa, Worm and even Xeno SM can be carried with some players not in complete "at least columi" gear. It depends on skill, teamwork and a bit of luck. But most ppl from this thread don't want to take a risk, as I see.

 

I do not pretend to run HM's with this gear, but c'mon... kicking out player from SM's?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Maern

Well, I'm just glad that I found this thread just now.

 

'Cause I'm not a frequent player in SWTOR for a number of reasons. Damn, I still have only one lvl 50 char - my tankassin - with mix of Tionesse, old Champion, even some recruit gear. That was enough for usual PvE, while I was leveling up other chars...

 

So, I didn't play my tankassin from... mmm... November, I think. Then, the event come and I decided to take this char back to the action, with all this curious stuff...

 

First, I had to solo-tank 8m Xeno. Then, it was 16m Xeno. A couple of wampa WB's...

 

And then I've encountered one of your kind, ppl... I had to switch to DPS mode (for a wampa again) just because one of the laughing, hard-worked, blah-blah-blah, kept whining for about 20 minutes that we need more tanks because "that guy still running outdated PvP gear..."

 

Ok, it's pretty late at my place and I'll try to sum up - in Gree event, Wampa, Worm and even Xeno SM can be carried with some players not in complete "at least columi" gear. It depends on skill, teamwork and a bit of luck. But most ppl from this thread don't want to take a risk, as I see.

 

I do not pretend to run HM's with this gear, but c'mon... kicking out player from SM's?

 

TY for proving my point, the problem is that many people expect gear to compensate for skill, but at the end of the day skill trumps gear.

 

Example: me and two other level 35s back in Dec 2011 got attacked by a level 50. We cc'd him back and forth and won. Why? Because despite having better gear he was a terrible player and we weren't. Skill trumped gear that day as it has on many a day since.