As it has been reported not only here, but other Media as well, this story line is probably the worst 1 that i and others have had to because of that fact that it makes No Sense for us to be a Follower, and go from the top Man or Woman, to only a Generic brand kind of character.

I cannot believe the bs, where we have to slaughter people that don't deserver to be killed because you think that is who we are. No I sure as hell would not ever let a stupid liaison officer from Republic intelligence on Nar Shadaa ever call me a traitor, without putting a saber in his chest for a stupid remark. Also, both the Republic and the Sith Empire needs us, they should be very thankful and go by our terms.

Why the hell would any of us Pro- Alliance characters ever go back to the Political tras that made us want to leave the Republic because i killed Saresh plenty of times. I also didn't like being a part of the stupid Sith Empire because of the racism trash, and joy in senseless murder of people that i decided to just stop doing period.

I could easily write a better story line, as i used to do some writing, use the imagination where more Star systems are joining the Alliance because of the Jedi vs Sith thing has gone too far and destroying vital resources. Also i believe in Gre Force users philosophies , and light and dark. That is very Midevil in thinking, and is very outdated.

Gotta fix this guys, really do, this is bad for the other half or 1/3 of the playerbase. I will only do things for PvE gearing, not for terrible story line.

I vote we go to Iokath and get a new fleet! We'll salvage Izax and turn him into the Gravestone Mk II.

We then go to Belsavis and talk to Ashaa ... I think I can talk her into creating a new army for us so long as we promise to help her wipe out the remaining Rakata ... I'll also throw Darth Marr and Vaylin 'into' her so she can fix them up ... and then we go to Zakuul and talk to these wankers who thought it was a smart move to bail on the Alliance.

Funny, I liked the story line much better than this God-Emperor-of-half-the-Galaxy dreck

These Star Wars games were made where we are supposed to be the Ultimate Hero of the Galaxy, not a peon. If people look at the past Star Wars games this is why most of us bought these games, to get better to defeat all evil, or become the ultimate evil, That's how George Lucas wrote Luke Skywalker, as a chosen savior to our galaxy. Just the way things were made and Marketed.

If you don't want to be all powerful, like these games make us, then you can go your own way, you have a choice, but the Devs really need to do better with the Alliance. We still have military and personel from both the Sith Empire and Republic that chose not to leave, because of disgust.

"Musco"

I will never not be entertained by people who demand that the community manager/PR person fixes the story, bugs, PVP balance, etc. The chances for Musco doing just that, OP, are as big as him dropping to visit you with a chocolate cake he baked just for you.

"Musco"

 

as him dropping to visit you with a chocolate cake he baked just for you.

mmmm.....cake...

Musco, if you're reading this, I'd like a double chocolate cake with chocolate chips and a buttercream frosting.

And yet... Jedi Under Siege has been the most popular and most appreciated storyline since KotFE and KotET had been released.

It is no secret that the storyline of 5.10 is widely considered to be a great new step in the overall SWTOR narrative. Time and time again you see it confirmed that a vast majority of players have really liked Jedi Under Siege. You see it on the social media sites, you see it on Reddit, you see it ingame, you see it on these forums. Yes, the gearing changes are heavily criticised, but the story is praised.

So I am very sorry to say it, but evidently the people who have disliked Jedi Under Siege and the direction it introduces are the minority in this case. I am sorry that you did not like the story, but this is the direction that pleases most of the playerbase. You can call it stupid, you can call it unfair, but it is what it is. Bioware doesn't have the resources to cater to your specific story wishes, or that of a small group of players. It's the same how Bioware won't establish a canon choice in regards to Acina or Malcom, the group of people wanting that is too small to cater just to them.

You can call it stupid, you can call it unfair, but it is what it is.

And it's a compromise at that. You still have your alliance while picking a side to support. It's not all or nothing.

These Star Wars games were made where we are supposed to be the Ultimate Hero of the Galaxy, not a peon. If people look at the past Star Wars games this is why most of us bought these games, to get better to defeat all evil, or become the ultimate evil, That's how George Lucas wrote Luke Skywalker, as a chosen savior to our galaxy. Just the way things were made and Marketed.

Yet, as an agent you are a pawn being controlled by people with supernatural powers and it is touted by many to be the best story in the original game. I personally didn't like KOTFE and KOTET at all. There was no subletly to the writing. Baras was a fat scheming fraud who couldn't even break the will of a republic spy and he was way more interesting than the spoiled brats Arcann and Veylin.

Also, as for "to defeat all evil, or become the ultimate evil" ... that's something I really didn't like in KOTFE and KOTET. There was no nuance. In my first playthrough I played my Jedi Shadow, who is primarily a good character, so the story was digestible. Second time around I played my Operative who, at the end of chapter 3 in the original game, ended up just short of Light Side 1. A grey character in all respects. When I played her in KOTFE and KOTET it felt like a complete and utter betrayal of who she was.

Taste differs. Some people love the good versus evil. Personally, I prefer Chris Avellone's view of the Force (the guy who wrote Kreia, among others).

And yet... Jedi Under Siege has been the most popular and most appreciated storyline since KotFE and KotET had been released. /QUOTE]

 

Its been the ONLY real storyline content drop since KotFE/ET.

 

All The Best

"Musco"

 

I will never not be entertained by people who demand that the community manager/PR person fixes the story, bugs, PVP balance, etc. The chances for Musco doing just that, OP, are as big as him dropping to visit you with a chocolate cake he baked just for you.

6.0 new storyline: Musco's ptach notes.

And yet... Jedi Under Siege has been the most popular and most appreciated storyline since KotFE and KotET had been released. /QUOTE]

 

Its been the ONLY real storyline content drop since KotFE/ET.

 

All The Best

Point taken... but still, Jedi Under Siege was good, KotFE and KotET weren't.

Point taken... but still, Jedi Under Siege was good, KotFE and KotET weren't.

You didn't like KOTFEET, doesn't mean it was bad.

And remember that we got barely half of what was originally planed, it may have been much better with the whole story

And btw while Ossus was not that bad as a Pub loyalist, it was not that great either, especially as an imp saboteur, and a lot of things didn't make sense... Like why am i supposed to kill Pubs and burn Jedi farms when my goal is to actually destroy the Empire ?

And even as a loyalist, why was my JK forced to say something like "It's time i got back to the Republic" while the only other choice was siding with the Empire and "Reuniting with the Jedi has been long overdue." while my only other choices were flirting with Tau (err, sorry Tau you're nice and all, but not interested) or sounding like an arrogant jerk who thinks that no one can do anything without her.

None of these choices suited this character and that was trully annoying. Something like "I'll side with the Republic" and "I was glad i could help" would've been much better considering she would've stayed neutral if that was an option...

You didn't like KOTFEET, doesn't mean it was bad.

True, it means that this person thinks that KOTET/KOFTE was bad, something a significant portion of the player base agrees with, and something apparently the lead writers agree with seeing as they are taking the storyline in another direction. As I am sure you understand, if enough people liked the KOTET/KOFTE approach, Bioware would have continued with that storyline.

You didn't like KOTFEET, doesn't mean it was bad.

Well, I'd argue the vast amount of negative feedback that players had expressed about KotFEET + the fact the two stories failed to revive the game or keep the playerbase interested, also are indicators of whether those expansions were good or bad I mean, there's so many people I know who left the game because of the story and honestly, people who genuinely liked KotFEET are hard to find.

True, it means that this person thinks that KOTET/KOFTE was bad, something a significant portion of the player base agrees with, and something apparently the lead writers agree with seeing as they are taking the storyline in another direction. As I am sure you understand, if enough people liked the KOTET/KOFTE approach, Bioware would have continued with that storyline.

Basically what I am talking about. If KotFE and KotET hadn't been bad, that specific storyline would have been continued and the devs wouldn't have returned to Empire vs Republic. It's very simple, the masses rule and apparently, the masses ruled KotFEET was bad.

And remember that we got barely half of what was originally planed, it may have been much better with the whole story

Maybe it's actually better that KotFEET got cut short, because that storyline was just damaging the game sooo badly. People really weren't liking the setting created by those two expansions. People had started playing this game for the Star Wars feel of it and suddenly the vibe became very alien and un-Star Wars like with KotFEET.

And btw while Ossus was not that bad as a Pub loyalist, it was not that great either, especially as an imp saboteur, and a lot of things didn't make sense... Like why am i supposed to kill Pubs and burn Jedi farms when my goal is to actually destroy the Empire ?

*shrug* that's why I play loyalists. If I want to play Republic, I make a Republic character. If I want to play Empire, I make an Imperial character. If I want to play a LS character I play a Jedi, if I want to play a DS character I play a Sith. I don't bother with the LS Sith or DS Jedi shizzle, that just really rubs me wrong. So I guess it's no wonder I am not big on a Saboteur Rep or Saboteur Imp

*shrug* that's why I play loyalists. If I want to play Republic, I make a Republic character. If I want to play Empire, I make an Imperial character. If I want to play a LS character I play a Jedi, if I want to play a DS character I play a Sith. I don't bother with the LS Sith or DS Jedi shizzle, that just really rubs me wrong. So I guess it's no wonder I am not big on a Saboteur Rep or Saboteur Imp

I played the saboteur part with an IA, and as i'm sure you're aware, the IA has all the motivation and even the possibility to turn against the Empire at the end of their class story and become a double agent, so why would these IA suddenly become loyal to the Empire again after working for the Republic for years ?

On the other hand, the SI was a slave, the SW was betrayed over and over again, so that's not completely illogical that there may be some versions of these characters who've had enough and would like to see if the grass is greener on the other side, especially if they're not completely obsessed with their own power or completely overwhelmed by the DS...

Mine are still DS, but on the rather pragmatic side of the DS spectrum, they have no issue killing, but they'll think before they do it to see if it actually is the best option, one is a schemer and will do anything if it helps him further his own goals and one of them is to utterly destroy the system who made him a slave in the first place, while the other was an honorable fighter who had no desire for power for herself and only wanted to do her best for the sake of the Empire, even if sometimes it implied sparing enemies who could prove usefull later and only got betrayals in return for her loyalty.

So none of them has actually valid reasons to be loyalists now. So if the saboteur thing is all i can get, they'll just stop after Nathema, as i'll have nothing to do with them.

Anyways, that saboteur thing is badly done, they should just have allowed character who activelly wanted to switch faction to just play the other side's story and that's it, be offcially traitors to their old faction and not acting like their still loyals to their original faction.

And my (former) JK may have played the loyalist part, but she only sided with the Rpublic because she had no choice and because it's the lesser of 2 evils (it's imperfect, but still better than the Empire), but she has no desire to become a Jedi again, so if that's forced on me too (as some of the imposed dialogue options seem to imply), i'll just stop playing her too and i'll have nothing left to do on this game, so i'll just leave and try to find something else to do.

I played the saboteur part with an IA, and as i'm sure you're aware, the IA has all the motivation and even the possibility to turn against the Empire at the end of their class story and become a double agent, so why would these IA suddenly become loyal to the Empire again after working for the Republic for years ?

On the other hand, the SI was a slave, the SW was betrayed over and over again, so that's not completely illogical that there may be some versions of these characters who've had enough and would like to see if the grass is greener on the other side, especially if they're not completely obsessed with their own power or completely overwhelmed by the DS...

Mine are still DS, but on the rather pragmatic side of the DS spectrum, they have no issue killing, but they'll think before they do it to see if it actually is the best option, one is a schemer and will do anything if it helps him further his own goals and one of them is to utterly destroy the system who made him a slave in the first place, while the other was an honorable fighter who had no desire for power for herself and only wanted to do her best for the sake of the Empire, even if sometimes it implied sparing enemies who could prove usefull later and only got betrayals in return for her loyalty.

So none of them has actually valid reasons to be loyalists now. So if the saboteur thing is all i can get, they'll just stop after Nathema, as i'll have nothing to do with them.

 

Anyways, that saboteur thing is badly done, they should just have allowed character who activelly wanted to switch faction to just play the other side's story and that's it, be offcially traitors to their old faction and not acting like their still loyals to their original faction.

 

And my (former) JK may have played the loyalist part, but she only sided with the Rpublic because she had no choice and because it's the lesser of 2 evils (it's imperfect, but still better than the Empire), but she has no desire to become a Jedi again, so if that's forced on me too (as some of the imposed dialogue options seem to imply), i'll just stop playing her too and i'll have nothing left to do on this game, so i'll just leave and try to find something else to do.

All of this. On the Republic side, you can play a smuggler who has zero loyalty to the Republic to start, and is more interested in running their own pirate empire. Your trooper is in a squad where every former member defected to the Empire. Your Jedi can become disillusioned and start to turn away from Jedi teachings before they're out of Chapter One, as a matter of course in the story. There's also the fact that the Republic did nothing to help during KOTET and Saresh tried to knock off the PC. A Sith risked her neck to save them and the Sith Empire supported them during the war with Zakuul. There are plenty of reasons a Republic character would want to turn away from that faction, too.

My former Jedi would airlock themselves before they would allow themselves to be forced back into the Jedi order. They're also about to get married, so the thing about not having attachments isn't going to work so well My smuggler never liked the Republic to start and would not want to go back to being forced to support them. And my trooper is following the grand tradition of Havoc Squad by defecting.

They've already introduced the idea of changing loyalties as part of the story narrative with Iokath and with the choices our characters have been allowed to make since the game began. Taking that away now, and forcing us back to our old factions, won't work for a lot of characters. Neither does forcing characters to sneak around instead of declaring their loyalties outright. Especially since that subterfuge is now causing characters to lose companions who might stick around if they knew the truth.

I'm not a fan of the "the majority likes this so it's right" narrative, but if we're going to use that, I can't say I've seen too many posts, here or elsewhere, where players said they enjoyed being a saboteur. I've seen a lot of calls to let people switch or at least openly support the other side.

This whole saboteur thing was the most stupid decision of dev team for the couple of years at least.

They do not have enough resources to put up a ONE decent and complex story: 5.10 was a joke, like, 5 minutes of cutscenes about duuuh evul sith crushing a library on a ghost-planet - what an AMAZING and INTRIGUING ****. As I said, they don't have enough people and money, to make even a default fraction story somewhat bearable - yet they allowed players choice to defect and now they are almost obliged to make the consequences of it, to take into account their moronic (like why are you even playing Imp only to defect to Pub, what's the point?!) choices for the future progression - even more stretching and dividing resources for some dumb petty ****.

And I really hope devs will just forget about this mechanic and throw it in the airlock, because that is obviously not the point on which they should focus their miniscule efforts, same with romances and all kind of "relationships", ffs.

 

Also, as for "to defeat all evil, or become the ultimate evil" ... that's something I really didn't like in KOTFE and KOTET. There was no nuance. In my first playthrough I played my Jedi Shadow, who is primarily a good character, so the story was digestible. Second time around I played my Operative who, at the end of chapter 3 in the original game, ended up just short of Light Side 1. A grey character in all respects. When I played her in KOTFE and KOTET it felt like a complete and utter betrayal of who she was.

This so much. My chaotic neutral Rattataki Agent [she blew up the Black Codex] who mainly enjoyed beating people up with Kaliyo and nominally serving the Empire, somehow got roped into some sword and sorcery epic and became a DS V Empress, which was not at all a natural progression. All the characters I took through KOTFE/ET and the command system are the same way, and I'm only bringing in eight characters [one for each class, for the cheevo]. After that, I'm taking them straight to Ossus and skipping the grind [we'll likely have a new, completely different, grind during 6.0

But there's also a mechanic issue at play, the alignment indicator, which got created because of these expansions [and DvL]. Before it was very easy to be neutral, and very difficult to be far LS or DS, as it should be; the majority of players come in between. But because of this thing, and because the storyline in the KOTFE/ET expansions mostly preclude a neutral option, and because you get bonuses for command xp while your alignment is dominant, all this adds up to make it difficult to play neutral, at least at endgame [during the base 1-70 game it is not so much difficult as it is irritating, because you have to constantly switch alignments to stay neutral].

What's funny about this is that this system, and Kotfe in general, resembles the original Kotor a lot. Kotor didn't really have a neutral setting either, and the story was very much a cookie cutter power fantasy. The second game had a better, more nuanced story [albeit a hackjob] but even there alignment played a big role - you couldn't get your prestige class or new companion, or progress the story, without getting 75% DS or LS points. So much for Kreia. TOR was the first to break that mold, and now we're back to it again.

And yet... Jedi Under Siege has been the most popular and most appreciated storyline since KotFE and KotET had been released. /QUOTE]

 

Its been the ONLY real storyline content drop since KotFE/ET.

 

All The Best

 

Well we had the traitor arc but that was just as bad if not worse than FE/ET.

Maybe it's actually better that KotFEET got cut short, because that storyline was just damaging the game sooo badly. People really weren't liking the setting created by those two expansions. People had started playing this game for the Star Wars feel of it and suddenly the vibe became very alien and un-Star Wars like with KotFEET.

Izax take you!! ... Izax who? All the Zakuul mythology felt paper thin and, like you say, not very Star Wars like. Never did I feel like I wanted to know what any of these gods were. I didn't even think we would get an explanation, but we did, and that explanation was... well. Pretty silly.

But there's also a mechanic issue at play, the alignment indicator, which got created because of these expansions [and DvL]. Before it was very easy to be neutral, and very difficult to be far LS or DS, as it should be; the majority of players come in between. But because of this thing, and because the storyline in the KOTFE/ET expansions mostly preclude a neutral option, and because you get bonuses for command xp while your alignment is dominant, all this adds up to make it difficult to play neutral, at least at endgame [during the base 1-70 game it is not so much difficult as it is irritating, because you have to constantly switch alignments to stay neutral].

I really don't like the new alignment indicator thing. It's okay on my Jedi Shadow because, like I said in my previous post, she's just a regular light-sided Jedi (doesn't mean I automatically pick all the light side options, but I don't mind her being at maximum). With my agent I'm trying to balance it so I can remain grey and it's a chore. The alignment-meter is no longer an indicator of your character's alignment. Again, there's a lack of nuance. My Sith Warrior was an evil dude; he was a Sith Pureblood who truly believed himself to be superior to the other races. He had a surprisingly large amount of light side points. Because he was honourable as all hell. Like on Belsavis...

What makes all of this worse is that Bioware kinda promised around the time of 1.1 and 1.2 that they'd create some reward for the neutral characters. Never happened just like the chat bubbles.

Izax take you!! ... Izax who? All the Zakuul mythology felt paper thin and, like you say, not very Star Wars like. Never did I feel like I wanted to know what any of these gods were. I didn't even think we would get an explanation, but we did, and that explanation was... well. Pretty silly.

It's the same thing with what happened with Nathema and Zildrog. Vitiate's ritual did not need to be explained like that. It completely ruined and broke the mysticism around him and his power. It was one of the worst decisions they made, because it just was absolutely unnecessary. The vagueness and mystery around Vitiate's ritual on Nathema was what made it intriguing and amazing, but then they went and ruined it.

I cannot believe the bs, where we have to slaughter people that don't deserver to be killed because you think that is who we are. No I sure as hell would not ever let a stupid liaison officer from Republic intelligence on Nar Shadaa ever call me a traitor, without putting a saber in his chest for a stupid remark. Also, both the Republic and the Sith Empire needs us, they should be very thankful and go by our terms.

This is why swtor shot itself in its own foot by giving players too many choices to kill off characters. Now apparently everyone everywhere all the time must be killable for just looking at you the wrong way. And it's incredibly hard to write a story continuation that makes sense with everyone dead. That's why everyone is not killable. There is no-one to left to tell a story if you want to slaughter the whole planet for saying one bad word at you, which most NPCs in this game have. Get over it.

What goes to "better story for alliance players", is bs as well. They are not using 5+ years to develop multiple different storylines like there was on launch. Rep and Imp players didn't get a "better story" for the entirety of fe/et either, so why should you get special treatment now when they didn't get any either.

What goes to "better story for alliance players", is bs as well. They are not using 5+ years to develop multiple different storylines like there was on launch. Rep and Imp players didn't get a "better story" for the entirety of fe/et either, so why should you get special treatment now when they didn't get any either.

Basically this. While a small group may have enjoyed the Alliance narrative, the rest of us were sat stuck with something we didn't like, waiting to go back to our factions or get back to the conflict that mattered. During the entirety of KotFE and KotET we didn't get any choice to go back to the Empire or Republic either, we didn't get a story that suited our playstyle.

Some people say they're "forced" into a narrative they don't like. Well, welcome to our world, we had that for the entirety of KotFE and KotET. We were forced into the Alliance with absolutely no option or ability to escape it or go back to our factions. But the difference here is that more players felt that way than there were those who liked the Alliance. What do I base that on? The fact the devs are backtracking now and are returning to the Empire vs Republic narrative with the Alliance slowly disappearing. KotFE and KotET simply got so much criticism, that it became evident to the devs it wasn't the story that majority of the players wanted.

Basically this. While a small group may have enjoyed the Alliance narrative, the rest of us were sat stuck with something we didn't like, waiting to go back to our factions or get back to the conflict that mattered. During the entirety of KotFE and KotET we didn't get any choice to go back to the Empire or Republic either, we didn't get a story that suited our playstyle.

 

Some people say they're "forced" into a narrative they don't like. Well, welcome to our world, we had that for the entirety of KotFE and KotET. We were forced into the Alliance with absolutely no option or ability to escape it or go back to our factions. But the difference here is that more players felt that way than there were those who liked the Alliance. What do I base that on? The fact the devs are backtracking now and are returning to the Empire vs Republic narrative with the Alliance slowly disappearing. KotFE and KotET simply got so much criticism, that it became evident to the devs it wasn't the story that majority of the players wanted.

Then they cut some content and we all got ****ed over.