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Marauder Rage Guide (2.8+)


leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
08.10.2014 , 11:50 PM | #21
Hmm... wasnt the 1m started with Valorous Call/Frenzy for Zen/Berserk and the 1.5m one starting with 30x Fury pre-stacked so that you could do Zen/Berserk and then use Valorous Call/Frenzy for Inspiration/Bloodthirst at the start?

And argh I confused Momentum with Heightened Power.

I did a quick duplicate of the Pub Sheets and a Find and Replace to convert the duplicate to Imperial terminology. Hope it's correct.

Hmm... colour codes... I was using colours based on the Focus Sentinel abilities/procs. But yeah that part is WIP

Let see... FE/FC is grey because I took it as the fixed part of the rotation. MS/Rav is blue because MS is blue. ZL+FS/Obli+Sma is purple because ZL is purple. Zen+SL+SL+SL/Bers+VS+VS+VS is green because VC is green. ZS+Caut/BA+Rupt is red because Caut is red (its a lighter red when there there are only 2 GCDs aft FE/FC before BA is used). TST+SL/DST+VS is light blue because TST is a lighter blue. So yeah I've been colours to group abilities.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
08.11.2014 , 02:28 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by leto_cleon View Post
Hmm... wasnt the 1m started with Valorous Call/Frenzy for Zen/Berserk and the 1.5m one starting with 30x Fury pre-stacked so that you could do Zen/Berserk and then use Valorous Call/Frenzy for Inspiration/Bloodthirst at the start?

And argh I confused Momentum with Heightened Power.

I did a quick duplicate of the Pub Sheets and a Find and Replace to convert the duplicate to Imperial terminology. Hope it's correct.

Hmm... colour codes... I was using colours based on the Focus Sentinel abilities/procs. But yeah that part is WIP

Let see... FE/FC is grey because I took it as the fixed part of the rotation. MS/Rav is blue because MS is blue. ZL+FS/Obli+Sma is purple because ZL is purple. Zen+SL+SL+SL/Bers+VS+VS+VS is green because VC is green. ZS+Caut/BA+Rupt is red because Caut is red (its a lighter red when there there are only 2 GCDs aft FE/FC before BA is used). TST+SL/DST+VS is light blue because TST is a lighter blue. So yeah I've been colours to group abilities.
Oh okay I think I misunderstood you. Yes I started 1 mil with frenzy berserk combo. I just thought you meant that I started without an fury stacks at all which is naturally not true. Ty for clarifying :P.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
08.11.2014 , 09:37 AM | #23
Okay so I have devised a rotation where rupture can be used exactly b4 SM and OB is right after SM each time. Here r sample parses for the alternate rotation and my original rotation in the guide. Both r with pretty crappy crit rates.

Here is the gist of it: with less critical dmg my rotation in the guide did considerably better than the alternate rotation.

What did I do in the alternate rotation, and why do I think it's fundamentally worse? First off you must open with force charge, no other way to buff SM if OB comes right after it (unless u feel lucky and just naturally crit lol). Since now OB is in GCD1 (otherwise would screw up ravage too which is even worse) of Cascading Power every time, the use of FC gets really funky, since that is exactly where I would put it above 30% every time in an ideal case.

This is a big problem. FC is a much stronger move than RU and like this it hardly ever gets buffed for the entire parse, whereas it's buffed every time above 30% and sometimes sub 30% in my original rotation. What do we gain instead? 4/6 (u can check in the logs, albeit very very very close to 5/6 ) ticks of rupture buffed instead of 3/6 (when used b4 OB then SM). Very very bad tradeoff.

What else? U can see further problems with this rotation sub 30%, since the placement of OB will interfere with a VT placement and hence mess up how many times u can use it in the execute phase. Therefore what I decided to do is swap to my original rotation sub 30%. Basically when I used VT after the Cascading Power window as a filler, both SM and OB come off of CD, so I just use OB first then SM. What is the problem here? Your entire rotation gets delayed by 1 GCD while u do this swap. Also not good.

Another thing, more PVE reated. Since OB is used after SM, that SM has a 19 sec window to be used. Say there is a gap in the fight long enough such that ur buff wears off and u dont get to force charge. U lose out on an auto crit unless you revert to the OB SM version.

I am glad I have done this test though, it has given me (and hopefully you :P) much better insight into why the rotation in the guide works so much better and why its not ideal to do RU SM throughout the parse.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
08.11.2014 , 11:46 AM | #24
Updated: Included a parse analysis section, updated use of frenzy for dps in tips and tricks, added analysis about rupture b4 smash, minor tweaks + typo cleanups.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
08.11.2014 , 04:35 PM | #25
The links weren't working. Here's the bit.ly ones.

1m Dummy Parse starting with Frenzy+Berserk: http://bit.ly/VdDmWt

1.5m Dummy Parse starting with prestacked fury, and frenzy+BT at the start: http://bit.ly/1oYIHfH

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
08.11.2014 , 05:24 PM | #26
Okay ill update the links now.

Edit: Done, tested and working! Thanks for heads up :P

chillshock's Avatar


chillshock
08.12.2014 , 05:47 AM | #27
So. I've been experimenting a bit with smash and am slowly getting the hang of it - it's difficult to get rid of all the anni muscle-memory to get anywhere with rage. I feel enourmously squishy compared to anni. I'm interested how it will perform in PvP. Fully augmented, with - I think - 2 or 3 pieces still oboran. I so far have NOT managed to pull a 10k plus smash on NPC. On the other hand... maybe those npc (elite) I'm farming while in queue.... maybe they have some dmg-reduction.

But it's a blast and your guide helped a lot in improving my killspeed. I might need to get me a proper pve gear some time. But I dislike flashpoints/ops... and I lack the credits to just purchase 34 mods. :P If anyone has a pointer what is worth getting for pve-optimization when transitioning from pure pvp gear to pve - that would be something I'd be really interested in. Like: Would getting 2x pve lightsabers be worth a lot (34 hilts, power crystals, ...)?

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
08.12.2014 , 06:49 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by chillshock View Post
So. I've been experimenting a bit with smash and am slowly getting the hang of it - it's difficult to get rid of all the anni muscle-memory to get anywhere with rage. I feel enourmously squishy compared to anni. I'm interested how it will perform in PvP. Fully augmented, with - I think - 2 or 3 pieces still oboran. I so far have NOT managed to pull a 10k plus smash on NPC. On the other hand... maybe those npc (elite) I'm farming while in queue.... maybe they have some dmg-reduction.

But it's a blast and your guide helped a lot in improving my killspeed. I might need to get me a proper pve gear some time. But I dislike flashpoints/ops... and I lack the credits to just purchase 34 mods. :P If anyone has a pointer what is worth getting for pve-optimization when transitioning from pure pvp gear to pve - that would be something I'd be really interested in. Like: Would getting 2x pve lightsabers be worth a lot (34 hilts, power crystals, ...)?
Rage is in fact very tanky. With Cloak of Pain up, u essentially r a tank without a shield generator. An extra 7% all round dr from the tree is pretty nice :P. How that compares to healing from ani though? Hard to judge and probably unnecessary. You would play rage for what rage does and ani for what ani does dps wise, not dr or healing :P (unless ur soloing somethingw with a comp).

Defensive wise there is no other change from ani. Cloak of pain is still 20% dr, saber ward does not last longer, same cd on camo, bit shorter undying rage which is very situational nowadays.

In plain pvp gear even with everything popped I think 10k smash would be beyond ur reach, maybe on standard or weak ( or lvl1) mobs XD. They have significantly less dr than elites or champs.

For PVE you will want to get accuracy cap, missing is a far bigger concern than in pvp. The two items which would be the single greatest improvement for uis a MH and an OH hilt. Ull have to contact crafters, im pretty sure they craft it for you for free with mats on any server.

As for PVP, I am not sure how helpful the guide is for you, since there r a lot of different scenarios to keep in mind which r not present in PVE (KBs, slows, stuns, out of range, terrain, objectives etc etc...) I dont do much pvp in fact hardly any at all on my mara, so I am really not the one to ask regarding pvp XD. Rotation wise how to exploit the Cascading power window is going to be very useful for you (short burst phases of a couple gcds) in pvp.

Keep in mind however, that this guide was written from a PVE perspective for PVE and dummy content primarily. Im very happy to see that the guide was of great help to you all the same!

chillshock's Avatar


chillshock
08.12.2014 , 07:22 AM | #29
Yes, thanks a bunch - I'll probably first get me a couple of pve weapons then and continue practicing bursting down those elites... they are a bit more lukrative than beating the brains out of the dummy.

two hilts and power crystals instead of the brutalizer and expertise ones should be a good boost. Going to take a look if I can get some mods and enhancements with +acc for them. Thanks for the confirm and pointers.

chillshock's Avatar


chillshock
08.13.2014 , 12:59 AM | #30
So... last night I tried Rage. (no creds / mats sunk into pve stuff yet)

MAN, did I breeze though my grind-content after a while. Took some sweet time to get the buttons kind of sorted out, I still mess up often, due to muscle memory.

PvP was a different story. I managed to pull of about the same damage as with my anni, just without all that heal to me and my team. So I ended up with less stats alltogether in the boards, less MVP ofc. I did however have some really successfull 1on2 and even a 1on3 I could decide for myself... If I have 30 stacks when attacking AND get my opener and all those new buttons right in a fight... that is some serious front-loaded burst damage. Ofc I still can't kill any ops heal who knows what he's doing (if no other persone whitebars me by senseless mezz, i.e. damn those rolls, stuns, mezz,... more rolls breaking charge-positioning...) but I'm getting them to use their panic-buttons a lot more than with that constant anni damage (big advantage of anni damage: mezz me all you like, it's gonna hurt anyways!). Now if only there was an "unmovable" buff to ravage making him 'un-knock-backable' while channeling or somesuch. I find myself using ravage more to draw the enemies cc than to actually do damage. Carnage be thanked: that's what they do: wait with cc for a ravage. Really. Some players can't see my stance it seems.

I think that a well played rage mara is probably one of the more dangerous oponents in pvp. However - so far - I feel like I'm failing A LOT. (messing up when to FC and OB ... even smashing without buff sometimes...) AND I am getting stuff like a ~3700 fully buffed smash crits on some (sorcs?) quite often... confusing. It really rains on my parade... :P Yes, even after all this time I don't know everything about the classes I'm an oldschool nub.

So, thanks again for the guide that explained quite a lot to me.

Some things I need to get right is my openers for pvp (so usually at 0 stacks and 0 ressource at start).
I need to get the high damage up and going quickly while maintaining tollerance for interruptions: stuns, range, knocks, mezz, delay due to taunts... all the little things a dummy don't do.
CH = Charge
DSF = Dual Saber Throw
RET = Retaliation

I always have a prio on VT and RET (if resource makes sense).
To get started agressively into a fight (without 2 min cd): DSF -> CH-> FC -> BA -> RU -> SM -> RV -> clip with FS -> OB -> VS ... and then? Or is this total junk?
Would this Order be better? DSF -> CH -> FC -> BA -> (watch stack for lag (3)) SM -> RU -> RV -> FS -> OB -> VS ... and how would you proceed to get the damage going and keep it up until dead.